85 replies to this topic

[shaddow134]

I see Morsai has just granted himself absolute power,they are protesting in Cairo,looks like Morsai has finally got the Military on side.

[joc]

The New Richard Nixon, on 23 November 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

Agree with expanded Israel attacked first in Jordan owned West Bank or a part of that area.

Joc you just want people to die

No.  I don't want anyone to die....people are already dying.  I want Peace in the Middle East...but there is never going to be Peace in the Middle East and the reason is blatantly obivous...

But given that Iran and Hamas wish to destroy Israel...what do you do Nixon-Lite  if you are Israel...let them?  Get real man!

[joc]

I stand corrected:  Egypt did not attack Israel first...so freaking what?!

The reasons why the war started
Israel and it's Arab neighbours had been hostile towards each other since 1948. For many years before the war tension was growing between all of the Arab Nations and the Jews. When Israel finally declared its statehood, several Arab countries started to attack it. The Arab countries refused to accept that Israel could be a Jewish state. The President of Egypt, Gamal Abdel Nassar, called for the destruction of Israel and started to mobilise for war. In the beginning there were just occasional civilian attacks, but then the attacks became more frequent and more destructive and violent. Because of the tension the president Nassar closed down the most important trading link between Israel to the rest of the world, the Strait of Tiran. This was an act of war, but they did not know that Israel would strike back with such ferocity.
LINK

[Black Red Devil]

pallidin, on 23 November 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

However, Hamas is a US recognized terror organization/partner. This is very clear in their recent attacks.
They have NO money, so their arms to attack Israel is coming from somewhere else.

Hamas is recognized as the legitimate government of the Gaza Strip.  The US and it's European partners classify it as a terrorist organisation.  Yet, they would be prepared to forget all Hamas' "terrorist" acts and legitimately accept it, if they recognised Israel.  How hilarious

http://www.israelnat...98#.UK_vTWc49FQ

pallidin, on 23 November 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

Some other nation(s) are funding the arms to Hamas.
EDIT: It's all about Islamic extremists wanting to take-over the Middle East, and eventually the entire world.

FURTHER EDIT: Free democracy should take over the world.

Aha!  You believe in George W Bush' "War on Terror" crusade.  Pity he never found any WMD's, Al Queda in Iraq or blew the Saudi's off the planet for providing the terrorists.

[Black Red Devil]

pallidin, on 23 November 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

Hamas and "partners" will never learn ANYTHING from civilized society, other than weaponry to promote their sick agenda.

EDIT: Israel, and other peaceful nations, should vigorously defend against their destruction.

Have you ever read any of the Human Right reports about their conduct against the Palestinians or the amount of raised resolutions by the UNSC (all vetoed by the US)?  Such a peaceful nation....

[and then]

WHO U KIDDIN, on 23 November 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

To deny another man's humanity is to deny your own.

This is the problem with our kind, it is why people kill and hate.

But that's right...you cannot battle hate with reason.

This really sums it up for me.  Well said.  The great irony is that a solution could be found IF it could be imposed.  Neither side will trust because both have been burned at different times and don't want to risk it again.  And no world body actually has the ability to do anything concrete - no matter what the charter of the UN might say.

[Black Red Devil]

joc, on 23 November 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

...and no infrastructure to speak of, sewer lines, highway systems, etc....why?  Because they haven't taken the initiative to do anything....

Wow.  You guys seriously need to be educated as to the history of all of this.  Firstly, Israel wasn't attacking Egypt...Egypt was attacking Israel...we are in the 1960s now okay...google Israel 6 day war...Israel waged swift and decisive war on Egypt and claimed as her own the territories of Egypt that she took in the war.   There were a lot of Arabs who were left in limbo as a result.  Did they go back into the new borders of Egypt?  No!  They blamed Israel, demanding Israel give the land back that they took in the war.  Sorry guys, but that is the end result of war.  For decades Yassir Arafat waged war against Israel.  Arabs blowing themselves up in market places inside Israel were common with massive casualties.  Israel has had to fight every step of the way just to survive!  Not to mention the near extermination at the hands of Adolf Hitler.

If the 'Palestinians' wanted peace, they would have taken the lands that Israel gave them and done something with it...they have done nothing..because they don't want peace...they want the destruction of Israel. You obviously do not understand that Hamas is nothing more than an extension of Iran and the Muslim Brotherhood is nothing more than an extension of Iran.  Hamas has as its stated goal, the destruction of Israel.

So the question is:  If I was dedicated to the proposition of killing the both of you, and your mothers, and your fathers, and your sisters, and your brothers...and burning down your house...what exactly would you do?   All along the way you have said you just wanted to live in peace with me...and all along the way I kill a member of your family every chance I get.  What would you do?  You know what you would do.  You would kill me.

Israel is NOT the problem.   The Muslim Brotherhood...the Radical Muslim Jihadists....those who scream incessently 'There is no god but Allah' and seek to place everyone under their system of Religious Totalitarianism are the problem.

You guys have bought into the whole lie of Palestine.  It is a lie.  It has always been a lie.  Where were these 'Palestinians' before the 6 day war in the 1960s?  They were nomads living in the desert...they had no homeland then either...their homeland was the deserts occupied by Egypt.

So...I know I won't change your minds...you cannot battle Hate with reason.  I have tried to educate you however as to the truth of this matter...good day!

Mate, a friendly word of advice.  If you come out with standard garbage like this, straight out of biased Rupert Murdoch's media Network coverage, then you'll end up loosing a lot of credibility you know.  You probably need to read a bit more about the history on how events in the middle east have unfolded over the years.  How it started (Partition Plans where the minority were awarded the majority of land by the British), why (would you be happy that droves of the other immigrants started arriving and taking over the majority of land you used to share), the interests involved (was it only about giving Jews a land?), the biased supply of aid (check out the military aid Israel has been given by the US over the last 40 years compared to what the Palestinians got), the biased protection (around 40 UNSC resolutions against Israel, not all by Arab countries, vetoed by the US alone, why?).

It's not as easy as A, B, C like you think.  Then if you managed to come up with an unbiased opinion, would you still be able to say "You guys have bought into the whole lie of Palestine.  It is a lie."?

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil, 23 November 2012 - 11:20 PM.

[Black Red Devil]

ExpandMyMind, on 23 November 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

Lol, they can't even take over India, and there's something like 2 hundred million muslims there...

Take over the World Who comes up with this stuff?

Oh and Hamas receives funding from Iran and some of the Islamic States. And contrary to what most people seem to think, the vast majority of their money is used to provide for the people of Gaza, not to buy rockets. This is why they are loved (they started doing so back in the early 90's, when Fatah were too busy lining their own corrupt pockets at the expense of the citizens - this is primarily what led to the rise of Hamas).

I'm not the greatest Hamas fan because of their past history involving suicide bombings but it is true. They have been trying to bring welfare, despite adversity, to Gazans.

Quote

s Hamas only a terrorist group?

No. In addition to its military wing, the so-called Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigade, Hamas devotes much of its estimated $70 million annual budget to an extensive social services network. Indeed, the extensive social and political work done by Hamas--and its reputation among Palestinians for being averse to corruption--partly explain its defeat of the Fatah old guard in the 2006 legislative vote.
Hamas funds schools, orphanages, mosques, health-care clinics, soup kitchens, and sports leagues. "Approximately 90 percent of its work is in social, welfare, cultural, and educational activities," writes the Israeli scholar Reuven Paz. The Palestinian Authority often fails to provide such services, and Hamas's efforts in this area--as well as a reputation for honesty, in contrast to the many Fatah officials accused of corruption--help to explain its broad popularity.

http://www.cfr.org/israel/hamas/p8968

[and then]

BlackRedLittleDevil, on 23 November 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

Mate, a friendly word of advice.  If you come out with standard garbage like this, straight out of biased Rupert Murdoch's media Network coverage, then you'll end up loosing a lot of credibility you know.  You probably need to read a bit more about the history on how events in the middle east have unfolded over the years.  How it started (Partition Plans where the minority were awarded the majority of land by the British), why (would you be happy that droves of the other immigrants started arriving and taking over the majority of land you used to share), the interests involved (was it only about giving Jews a land?), the biased supply of aid (check out the military aid Israel has been given by the US over the last 40 years compared to what the Palestinians got), the biased protection (around 40 UNSC resolutions against Israel, not all by Arab countries, vetoed by the US alone, why?).

It's not as easy as A, B, C like you think.  Then if you managed to come up with an unbiased opinion, would you still be able to say "You guys have bought into the whole lie of Palestine.  It is a lie."?

I came here with that attitude and people like Ex and Yamato, Q24 and yourself caused me to study a bit.  My perspective is less amenable to historical events or even trends though.  For me the bottom line is that these two parties have a grinning, knife fight hatred for each other and nothing short of victory is going to bring it to an end.  Tragic for the innocents but inescapable.  One day there will be a significant shift in the balance of power for one side or the other maybe but more likely it will just be an explosion of violence that finally cannot be contained and will end with a Pyrrhic victory.

[WHO U KIDDIN]

WHO U KIDDIN, on 23 November 2012 - 03:01 AM, said:

This ceasefire is just a temporary lull before the big bang.

With his latest Machiavellian maneuvers Netanyahu is preparing the stage for his electoral win in January and his incessant campaign for war with Iran by summer 2013. Operation Pillar biggest success could be measured by how closely Hamas embraces its Arab brethren and begins to distance itself from Iran.  

The recently accepted ceasefire brokered by Egypt’s Morsy with the support of the Arab League and Turkey has at least stopped the bloodshed for now. It certain that Israel will benefit if Egypt, Turkey and the AL nations can pull Hamas into their camp, and lure them away from Iran’s influence.  It is no secret that the major powerbrokers in the AL (the Saudis and the Gulf Kingdoms) have no love for Iran.

If the AL manages to rein in Hamas, and if Assad is overthrown in Syria the only threat remaining to Israel on its border is Lebanon’s Hezbollah. Don’t be too surprise if Lebanon very soon starts unraveling in sectarian violence once again. To anyone with common sense it would appears that all of Iran’s proxies in the area are being neutralized. If true then Netanyahu’s Operation Pillar action may be just the first stage of a future greater war.

Blocked, checked, and mate!  By way of deception, thou shall do war.

Funny I posted the above post the other day and in today's Yahoo News there's this piece:
http://news.yahoo.co...-173703012.html

[Black Red Devil]

and then, on 24 November 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

I came here with that attitude and people like Ex and Yamato, Q24 and yourself caused me to study a bit.  My perspective is less amenable to historical events or even trends though.  For me the bottom line is that these two parties have a grinning, knife fight hatred for each other and nothing short of victory is going to bring it to an end.  Tragic for the innocents but inescapable.  One day there will be a significant shift in the balance of power for one side or the other maybe but more likely it will just be an explosion of violence that finally cannot be contained and will end with a Pyrrhic victory.

I think you need to look at historical events so you can establish what went wrong, how to dissect, discard, improve and put in a plan to move forward.  But it's important to know and study the whole picture, not just one corner of it.

One thing is certain and both parties need to realise this.  Both Israel and the Palestinians are there to stay, side by side and neither of them are going anywhere.  So they better get over it, find a solution and adapt to the idea they've got to live with each other.

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil, 24 November 2012 - 02:12 AM.

[joc]

BlackRedLittleDevil, on 23 November 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

Mate, a friendly word of advice.  If you come out with standard garbage like this, straight out of biased Rupert Murdoch's media Network coverage, then you'll end up loosing a lot of credibility you know.  You probably need to read a bit more about the history on how events in the middle east have unfolded over the years.  How it started (Partition Plans where the minority were awarded the majority of land by the British), why (would you be happy that droves of the other immigrants started arriving and taking over the majority of land you used to share), the interests involved (was it only about giving Jews a land?), the biased supply of aid (check out the military aid Israel has been given by the US over the last 40 years compared to what the Palestinians got), the biased protection (around 40 UNSC resolutions against Israel, not all by Arab countries, vetoed by the US alone, why?).

It's not as easy as A, B, C like you think.  Then if you managed to come up with an unbiased opinion, would you still be able to say "You guys have bought into the whole lie of Palestine.  It is a lie."?

Germany's Adolf Hitler murdered 6 million Jews.  Six MILLION.  The Palestinians weren't Palestinians...they were Nomadic Arabs living in the desert occupied by Egypt.   Don't tell me Jack about anything.   Credibility be damned...you want to come down on the side of Hamas be my fricking guest...but don't tell me jack about Israel and how evil they are...just don't.  

The truth is...the Arab nations are scared to death of Israel.   They hate Israel and always have...from the freaking beginning of time...so don't give me a history lesson okay...I'm just not in the mood for it.  Israel is an Island of sanity in a Radical Jihadist Movement that has been threatening them for decades.  You are on the wrong side of history.  Period!

[Black Red Devil]

joc, on 24 November 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

Germany's Adolf Hitler murdered 6 million Jews.  Six MILLION.  The Palestinians weren't Palestinians...they were Nomadic Arabs living in the desert occupied by Egypt.   Don't tell me Jack about anything.   Credibility be damned...you want to come down on the side of Hamas be my fricking guest...but don't tell me jack about Israel and how evil they are...just don't.  

The truth is...the Arab nations are scared to death of Israel.   They hate Israel and always have...from the freaking beginning of time...so don't give me a history lesson okay...I'm just not in the mood for it.  Israel is an Island of sanity in a Radical Jihadist Movement that has been threatening them for decades.  You are on the wrong side of history.  Period!

LOL.  I suppose I'll have to take your version of things just because you say so and I surely wouldn't want to upset your fragile state of mind. Calm down mate.....count to ten......


By the way, I am right you know........

[pallidin]

I am so glad that the US is prepared and capable of defending Israel should things go "really bad"

[.AKUMA.]

joc, on 24 November 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

Germany's Adolf Hitler murdered 6 million Jews.  Six MILLION.  The Palestinians weren't Palestinians...they were Nomadic Arabs living in the desert occupied by Egypt.   Don't tell me Jack about anything.   Credibility be damned...you want to come down on the side of Hamas be my fricking guest...but don't tell me jack about Israel and how evil they are...just don't.  

The truth is...the Arab nations are scared to death of Israel.   They hate Israel and always have...from the freaking beginning of time...so don't give me a history lesson okay...I'm just not in the mood for it.  Israel is an Island of sanity in a Radical Jihadist Movement that has been threatening them for decades.  You are on the wrong side of history.  Period!

What does the murder of six million jews have to do with anything in todays events?.does this justify the slaughter of palistinians for you? your history is twisted! You make it out to be isreal isnt at fault with anything? Isreal has been the big bully in the region ever since it was formed.    
Oh and if you think the arabs hate isreal just look up what zionism thinks about the world!