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Where do athiests think we came from?


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#31    White Crane Feather

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:20 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 28 November 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:


Why does every thing need a cause? thats man thinking!
It's mans observation.

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#32    Hasina

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:20 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 28 November 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:


Got it now :tu:
We do have more info on the universe than we do on god, and the info we have about the universe is still very little, as opposed to the knowledge about god, which we have nothing.
My first two posts were jokes/theories I've heard before. Maybe in the future we create the past. One of those grandfather paradox answers I know, but it's just a theory, not even my own.

In my opinion, we may never have solid evidence (like holding a rock and going 'it's a rock!') of how, when or even why the universe began, but we may get some good clues, as you said we already have some clues to put in my handy dandy notebook.

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#33    Alienated Being

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:24 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 28 November 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

Its not that difficult.
It seems to be difficult to those who spend time researching, experimenting and developing theories.

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All we have to do is look at ourselves. We are obviously concious, and we are on the brink of understanding genes, technology,  and evolution enough to be able to consciously evolve. Somone already mentioned the universe is evolving. It has to. The only things that can exist are things that have the ability to perpetuate its existsance into to future.  Life obviously is very good at this, and  concious sentient  life even better.  Life is also exponential in nature. We are approaching the singularity in which life and technology will shift into extremely high gear.
Except when time completely ceases to exist, and we are all "frozen"...

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I asked the ocean ( a representation of primordial conciousness in my visions) during an OBE, how it was created. It said ( more of a telepathic understanding rather than language) that it dosnt remember.
What else have you learned from the ocean in these hallucinations?

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With all that said time in science is simply the propagation of signals always creating more entropy. It has nothing to do with sequence or causality. Causality time absolutely did not start with the big bang. There were things going on prior to that, we just may not understand them or be able to quantify it the way we observe this universe behaving. This notion of no time is silly.
This notion of "no time" is not silly at all, and has been the topic of discussion amongst experts for many, many years. I would like to see you use your discussion with the ocean as evidence for reinforcement of your delusional theories against a group of highly educated individuals who dedicate their time to answering these questions, and see how seriously they take you.

http://www.scientifi...time-before-big


#34    iforgot

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:24 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 28 November 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

The same thing can be said about the vacuum. there is not a shred of evidence or any reason to think that the vaccume was produced during the BB. Certainly the SPACE between things because everything was supposedly condensed, but not the vaccum itself.

When you take a hard critical look at the BB theories, I'm not sure why anyone thinks that The vaccume of SPACE and causality TIME was produced during the expansion.

It seems like maybe you would be more qualified to have started this thread than me! I think we have similar opinions.

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All we have to do is look at ourselves. We are obviously concious, and we are on the brink of understanding genes, technology,  and evolution enough to be able to consciously evolve. Somone already mentioned the universe is evolving. It has to. The only things that can exist are things that have the ability to perpetuate its existsance into to future.  Life obviously is very good at this, and  concious sentient  life even better.  Life is also exponential in nature. We are approaching the singularity in which life and technology will shift into extremely high gear.
Yes! Good! Great! I totally agree with this part.

The origin of consciousness, in my opinion, stemmed from the primordial consciousness super-computer like being (great description, I know!). It continues to evolve much like we do, expanding into different opportunities, eliminating the losers and choosing the winners (much like evolution here) in search for lower entropy (greater ability to do work. ex: oil has a much lower entropy than stone). This is why it would run simulations of many realities at the same time: to evolve consciousness to a lower entropy (which ultimately means more loving, but that's a different subject). It helps to think of our reality is some VR training lab for consciousness.

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Now aply that same principal to evolving universes. In an infinity of existence the substructure of reality must have evolved conciousness or at least extremely likely to. The kicker is that it must have done it an infinity ago which means its always been here continually evolving. Our universe is part of this ongoing process of life and evolution. We are the innerworkings of the great spirit.
I think we're on the same page. I also believe that The Big Computer also evolved time (long before our reality ever existed) to increase it's potential for organization. Therefore time is an essential tool for evolving into lower entropy states.


View Postfreetoroam, on 28 November 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Why does every thing need a cause? thats man thinking!

The same reason why books aren't flying off of my desk right now ;)

You're right, it is man thinking. Logical man thinking!


View PostAlienated Being, on 28 November 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

What else have you learned from the ocean in these hallucinations?

You haven't had any out-of-body experiences have you??

Edited by iforgot, 28 November 2012 - 06:28 PM.


#35    freetoroam

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:26 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 28 November 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

It's mans observation.
SOME mens observation.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#36    iforgot

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:29 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 28 November 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

SOME mens observation.
You aren't making a load of sense right now...

Maybe you should throw in some examples of things known to happen without cause?


#37    Alienated Being

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:29 PM

View Postiforgot, on 28 November 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

You haven't had any out-of-body experiences have you??
Yes, I have... however, I believe that the mind is extremely powerful, and can fool you into believing things that are not actually occurring (as in, you actually have a soul and it is ACTUALLY leaving your body and visiting places in the world).


#38    iforgot

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:33 PM

View PostAlienated Being, on 28 November 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

Yes, I have... however, I believe that the mind is extremely powerful, and can fool you into believing things that are not actually occurring (as in, you actually have a soul and it is ACTUALLY leaving your body and visiting places in the world).
Oh! Well that's good :)

What would cause these hallucinations? If our mind is that powerful and easily fooled, then how do we know what we think is 'physical' really isn't just a virtual reality?


#39    freetoroam

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:34 PM

View Postiforgot, on 28 November 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

You aren't making a load of sense right now...

Maybe you should throw in some examples of things known to happen without cause?
It is mans perception that there has to be a cause behind everything, its the only way for mans inquisitive mind to understand it.
Other animals do not think like we do, they just do and are.
I do believe most things happen for a reason, but thats because life follows the rules of nature, it is the rules of man which are changing things here.
I do not believe that the cause is because of some godly ways.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#40    Alienated Being

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:35 PM

View Postiforgot, on 28 November 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

Oh! Well that's good :)

What would cause these hallucinations? If our mind is that powerful and easily fooled, then how do we know what we think is 'physical' really isn't just a virtual reality?
We don't. That's just the beauty of it all.


#41    iforgot

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:38 PM

View PostAlienated Being, on 28 November 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

We don't. That's just the beauty of it all.

I love your open minded skepticism :)

Based on what I've experienced, I can say that a virtual reality would make more sense to me than any other theory I've read. I don't believe in an egotistical 'God', or "we just always were", just personal experiences and Tom Campbell's theory for me. But that's just what I think.


View Postfreetoroam, on 28 November 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

It is mans perception that there has to be a cause behind everything, its the only way for mans inquisitive mind to understand it.
Other animals do not think like we do, they just do and are.
I do believe most things happen for a reason, but thats because life follows the rules of nature, it is the rules of man which are changing things here.
I do not believe that the cause is because of some godly ways.

I'm talking about physics. The laws of physics dictate a cause for an effect to happen. Right??

Edited by iforgot, 28 November 2012 - 06:40 PM.


#42    Etu Malku

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:40 PM

View Postiforgot, on 28 November 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Both of these ideas clearly violate the cause and effect relationship that we know must exist in physical reality. They do not explain the paranormal or mystical events at all. precognitive dreaming and Out-of-body experiences are all pretty common (for me at least), so in my opinion, a good theory of everything would explain that too. Or in the very least, give a logical reason for them to happen!

Stay with me here, we are on a paranormal-centered discussion board after all.
:santa: No problem!
Good point here and I will reply beginning with  "Ah Ha!"
This is where the Universe is a composite of two universes, the objective universe (that which abides by the Laws of Physics) and the subjective universe (that which does not).

The Self, the Mind, Higher Self, Holy Guardian Angel, etc. exists outside of the objecive universe (OU) and without it! When we dream or imagine we have the ability the create things, situations and events that physics no longer apply.

Some will write this off simply as a byproduct of the brain, but we can ALL feel there is something much more to US than just the physical. An Isolate Intelligence removed from the OU . . . it is our subjective universe (SU)!
This SU does not function like its brother the OU Meme, it unfolds itself for each of us by way of the divine, by our Higher Self, the Monad and Essence of Self.

Through the OU we assign meaning to our SU, the OU exists only for our SU to know itself and other SU's.

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#43    Alienated Being

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:40 PM

View Postiforgot, on 28 November 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

I love your open minded skepticism :)

Based on what I've experienced, I can say that a virtual reality would make more sense to me than any other theory I've read. I don't believe in an egotistical 'God', or "we just always were", just personal experiences and Tom Campbell's theory for me. But that's just what I think.
Then who is controlling us through virtual reality?.. And how do we know who is not controlling them, controlling us? Ad infinitum...

I have thought about many things in my past... such as, "What if I am really in a coma, and experiencing an extremely vivid hallucination of what my life was like, and I am really going to wake up in the future?". -_-

Edited by Alienated Being, 28 November 2012 - 06:44 PM.


#44    freetoroam

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:42 PM

View Postiforgot, on 28 November 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

I love your open minded skepticism :)

Based on what I've experienced, I can say that a virtual reality would make more sense to me than any other theory I've read. I don't believe in an egotistical 'God', or "we just always were", just personal experiences and Tom Campbell's theory for me. But that's just what I think.



"we just always were" NOT.  We are just another species which happens in this time to be able to live and evolve on this planet under its current conditions, one little tilt and we are "was".

Edited by freetoroam, 28 November 2012 - 06:44 PM.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#45    iforgot

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:43 PM

View PostEtu Malku, on 28 November 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

:santa: No problem!
Good point here and I will reply beginning with  "Ah Ha!"
This is where the Universe is a composite of two universes, the objective universe (that which abides by the Laws of Physics) and the subjective universe (that which does not).

The Self, the Mind, Higher Self, Holy Guardian Angel, etc. exists outside of the objecive universe (OU) and without it! When we dream or imagine we have the ability the create things, situations and events that physics no longer apply.

Some will write this off simply as a byproduct of the brain, but we can ALL feel there is something much more to US than just the physical. An Isolate Intelligence removed from the OU . . . it is our subjective universe (SU)!
This SU does not function like its brother the OU Meme, it unfolds itself for each of us by way of the divine, by our Higher Self, the Monad and Essence of Self.

Through the OU we assign meaning to our SU, the OU exists only for our SU to know itself and other SU's.
Haha! Good opener

We really don't think that differently then. I, personally, subscribe to the VR theory but our two ways of thinking are pretty similar (physical reality as well as non-physical reality).

Just as thoughts can't be measured, I think you're right about what you said on dreams. The reasoning behind what I think is complicated and I don't want to start with that :D


View PostAlienated Being, on 28 November 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

Then who is controlling us through virtual reality?.. And how do we know who is not controlling them, controlling us? Ad infinitum...
Who said control?

I think of it more as an experiment where the conditions of consciousness were met, and so consciousness evolved. Wondering about what created the creator is beyond comprehension much like intestinal bacteria thinking about the existence of the sun; they will never know.

Edited by iforgot, 28 November 2012 - 06:45 PM.





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