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Killer Cave May Have Inspired Myth of Hades

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#1    Still Waters

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:32 PM

A giant cave that might have helped serve as the inspiration for the mythic ancient Greek underworld Hades once housed hundreds of people, potentially making it one of the oldest and most important prehistoric villages in Europe before it collapsed and killed everyone inside, researchers say.

The complex settlement seen in this cave suggests, along with other sites from about the same time, that early prehistoric Europe may have been more complex than previously thought.

http://www.livescien...ave-burial.html

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#2    jbondo

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:16 PM

Hell is an actual place, the Jews called it Gehenna. Many misunderstand what it truly is, but the truth is that it was a dump just outside of Jerusalem in "Valley of Hinnom's son". There was no waste management back in the day, so they had dumps where they burned garbage. However, they also threw some of the dead in there as punishment.

In other words, instead of someday being reunited with God, you are sentenced to death, where you would cease to exist for eternity. In those days, many of these people were not given a Christian or Jewish funeral, but rather just tossed into the town dump.

Unfortunately, the myth grew of a place of eternal damnation where you would suffer forever.

There is plenty of scripture to support this in the Bible. I wish I had more time to look them up and list them, but I gotta go for now.


#3    CuriousGreek

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:29 PM

It's a shame i haven't gone there yet. I want to visit this magnificent cave, because i have heard many good words about it and i believe, from what i've seen over the internet, that it surely deserves them. Lucky, for being a Greek :)

Αν ανάμεσα σ’ όλον τον κόσμο,
νιώθεις πως δεν υπάρχουνε λύσεις,
τότε μόνο δυο μάτια μπορούνε,
να σε κάνουν να θέλεις να ζήσεις.

#4    Ashotep

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:53 PM

I never heard that story about the dump before.  Ending up there would be like going to hell after death.


#5    Abramelin

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:11 PM

View Postjbondo, on 29 November 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Hell is an actual place, the Jews called it Gehenna. Many misunderstand what it truly is, but the truth is that it was a dump just outside of Jerusalem in "Valley of Hinnom's son". There was no waste management back in the day, so they had dumps where they burned garbage. However, they also threw some of the dead in there as punishment.

In other words, instead of someday being reunited with God, you are sentenced to death, where you would cease to exist for eternity. In those days, many of these people were not given a Christian or Jewish funeral, but rather just tossed into the town dump.

Unfortunately, the myth grew of a place of eternal damnation where you would suffer forever.

There is plenty of scripture to support this in the Bible. I wish I had more time to look them up and list them, but I gotta go for now.

"Hell" is indeed an actual place, and it was the original name of the North Sea.

"Hell" or the (later?) Hades was the Underworld, a 'hidden place', land hidden in mists, place of the dead, drowned land,  a suitable name for the North Sea, a sea that has killed millions from the time it came into existence (around 6150 BCE).

There are still many names in Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium that have the name 'Hel-' as the first part of their full name.

There are also socalled "Hellwegs", literally, "Roads to Hell", all ancient and all leading to the North Sea.

Much later this ancient name for the North Sea was adopted by the Christians instead of the original Hebrew name "Sheol" :

She'ol ( /ˈʃiːoʊl/ SHEE-ohl or /ˈʃiːəl/ SHEE-əl; Hebrew שְׁאוֹל Šʾôl), translated as "grave", "pit", or "abode of the dead", is the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible's underworld, a place of darkness to which all the dead go, both the righteous and the unrighteous, regardless of the moral choices made in life, a place of stillness and darkness cut off from God.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol


#6    AliveInDeath7

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:48 PM

Interesting reading guys. Thanks!


#7    Abramelin

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:19 PM

View PostNikkiAidyn, on 29 November 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

Interesting reading guys. Thanks!

I have a bit more... :P

The Phoenicians, and their Hebrew kin who often traveled along with them, most probably not only visited Cornwall to trade/mine tin, but also sailed up into the North Sea.

They would have had no knowledge or experience of mudflats and tides and may have shipwrecked often on them.

Now what could they have called those mudflats?  "She'ol" maybe? Later to become "shoal" (and many similar names in the Germanic languages around the North Sea)?

And from "She'ol" to "shoal" to "hell"?

This is not just some folk etymology; there is a German linguist, Theo Vennemann,  who is convinced the Phoenicians had a big influence on these Germanic languages.

Plus the fact that there is now some evidence the Minoans did visit the German Bight and southern Scandinavia between 1700 an 1100 BCE (inscriptions and artifacts), and all this doesn't sound that farfetched anymore.


+++

EDIT:

From modern times:

Dogger Bank, North Sea. Also known as the cemetery.

http://www.shipwreck....com/index5.htm

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Edited by Abramelin, 29 November 2012 - 08:57 PM.


#8    jbondo

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:33 PM

I realize that I didn't mention the term She'ol and you are correct in definition Abramelin. Can you please show me Biblically where it mentions the "North Sea" as being Hell?

I'm not trying to argue, but I am always up for learning. I also, think words can be applied to different scenarios as well, that's why I wouldn't completely disagree with you.

By the way Hilander, I love your avatar!

Edited by jbondo, 30 November 2012 - 04:35 PM.


#9    Abramelin

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:47 PM

View Postjbondo, on 30 November 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

I realize that I didn't mention the term She'ol and you are correct in definition Abramelin. Can you please show me Biblically where it mentions the "North Sea" as being Hell?

I'm not trying to argue, but I am always up for learning. I also, think words can be applied to different scenarios as well, that's why I wouldn't completely disagree with you.

By the way Hilander, I love your avatar!

LOL, I thought, "What?!"

But this is why you ask:

Much later this ancient name for the North Sea was adopted by the Christians instead of the original Hebrew name "Sheol"

But the sentence should have been

Much later this ancient name for the North Sea - Hell - was adopted by the Christians as a name for the Underworld, and so on.

Somehow things got mixed up, and I didn't even notice it.

It would of course be very interesting if the original or one of the oldest names of the North Sea was indeed based on a Semitic word, She'ol'  and then later changed into "Hell", But for that to be a serious possibility they'd first have to find one of these Phoenician shipwrecks somewhere hidden in an ancient 'shoal' along the coasts of the North Sea.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 30 November 2012 - 04:49 PM.


#10    Ad hoc

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:39 PM

Sounds amazing. In the main chamber Big Ben would fit nicely lying on its side.
Awesome that only the entrance collapsed, preserving the cave in all its glory! ...although I guess that means the people inside died a slow death. :/


#11    3.0

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:57 AM

It is a very intersting discovery.  But, I suspect Hades (or the Underworld) could have been the Mediterranean Basin.  Thousands of years ago, when it was closed off from the Atlantic.  And perhaps traded with ancient Atlantis and Athens of old.  Before Atlantis sank, and Hades was flooded when the land bridge gave way at the strait of gibraltar!  It, just a theory.

Edited by 3.0, 01 December 2012 - 04:59 AM.


#12    Abramelin

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 07:09 AM

View Post3.0, on 01 December 2012 - 04:57 AM, said:

It is a very intersting discovery.  But, I suspect Hades (or the Underworld) could have been the Mediterranean Basin.  Thousands of years ago, when it was closed off from the Atlantic.  And perhaps traded with ancient Atlantis and Athens of old.  Before Atlantis sank, and Hades was flooded when the land bridge gave way at the strait of gibraltar!  It, just a theory.

The Med was closed off from the Atlantoc some 5 million years ago, not mere thousands.


#13    3.0

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:45 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 01 December 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:

The Med was closed off from the Atlantoc some 5 million years ago, not mere thousands.

This is true, but there was another time when the levels may have gone enough to close off the Med.  H. G. Wells speculated about this in one of his books, rightly or wrongly.  Read about it here:  http://outline-of-hi...ean-valley.html

Edited by 3.0, 05 December 2012 - 07:46 PM.


#14    Abramelin

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:55 AM

View Post3.0, on 05 December 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

This is true, but there was another time when the levels may have gone enough to close off the Med.  H. G. Wells speculated about this in one of his books, rightly or wrongly.  Read about it here:  http://outline-of-hi...ean-valley.html

But there is no geological proof that happened in the last 15,000 years or so.

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