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Where Was Atlantis?


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#61    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:36 AM

As the Pillars of Hercules were considered the end of the known earth, couldn't reference to "beyond the pillars of hercules" be read as "beyond our knowledge of geography" (i.e. it could have been anywhere or only conceptual)


#62    granpa

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:03 AM

View Postgranpa, on 04 December 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evenor

When Cleito reached marriageable age, her parents died, but the god Poseidon slept with her and she became mother of five pairs of twin sons

http://religion.wiki...ki/DinĂ©_Bahaneʼ

At the end of four days, First Woman gave birth to twins. They were neither male nor female, but Nádleeh, hermaphrodite. Four days later a second set of twins was born, one male and one female. After twenty days a total of five pairs of twins had been born, half of them male and half of them female
http://religion.wiki...ki/DinĂ©_Bahaneʼ


Changing Woman and Naayéé' Neizghání and the younger twin, Naʼídígishí, who was also known as Tó Bájísh Chíní, Child of the Water, now heard a voice from the east chanting in reply: "With the Slayer of Monsters I come. From the house of the dark stone blades I come. From where the dark stone knives hang I come. Giver of the sacred hoops I come. I come, I come! The dreaded one." Changing Woman said, "It is the voice of your father. Dress yourselves quickly. And then she left the hogan.

Jóhonaa'éí, the Sun, entered and greeted the twins. To Naayéé' Neizghání he said, "My son, have you slain all the enemies of the people?" Naayéé' Neizghání replied, "Those who should die I have killed. I have been among the highest peaks, and I been through the deepest canyons. I have been to the edge of the waters, and I have been to the boundaries of the sky. And wherever I went I found no one who is not a friend to our people." "Then your work is done," said Jóhonaa'éí. "I will take the weapons I gave you back with me. Tell your mother that after four days I will return. I wish to speak with her on top of Ch'óol'į'í, the Giant Spruce Mountain." And he departed.
After four days, Asdzáá Nádleehé, Changing Woman, went to the summit of Ch'óol'į'í, the Giant Spruce Mountain, and sait on a rock near the spot where she had first felt the warmth of the sun deep within her body. Jóhonaa'éí, the Sun, came and sat beside her. He tried to embrace her, but she stopped him. "What do you mean by that?" she said. "I want you for my own," he replied. "Come to the west and make a home with me there." "I wish no such thing," she said. "I am lonely," said Jóhonaa'éí. "What good is all that I do if I must endure my days and nights all alone?" After a time a silence, Asdzáá Nádleehé spoke. "I am told you have a beautiful house in the east. I want such a house in the west. I want it built floating on the shimmering water, away from the shore, so that the Earth-Surface people will not bother me with their quarrels. I want white shell, and blue shell, and turquoise. I want haliotis. I want soapstone, agate, redstrone, and jet. Because I will live there alone while you are gone each day, I want animals to keep me company. Give me buffalo, and deer, and mountain sheep, jackrabbits, prairie dogs, and muskrats. Provide me with those things and I shall go with you to the west."

"What do you mean by making such demands of me?" said Jóhonaa'éí. "Why should I provide you with all of those things?" "I will tell you why," she said. "You are male and I am female. You are of the sky and I am of the earth. You are constant in your brightness, but I must change with the seasons. Remember that I willingly let you enter me and I gave birth to your sons,[52] enduring pain to bring them into the world. As different as we are, we are of one spirit. As dissimilar as we are, you and I, we are of equal worth. As different as we are, there must be solidarity between us. There can be no harmony in the universe unless there is harmony between us. If there is to be harmony, my request must matter to you. There is to be no more coming from me to you than there is from you to me."[53]

At first Jóhonaa'éí gave no reply. He carefully weighed all that she had said. Then slowly he placed his arm around her. She allowed him to do so. Then he promised her that all the things she wished for she would have. She would have a house in the west on the shimmering water. She would have gems, and animals. They would dwell together in harmony. When Changing Woman was ready to depart for her new home, the Mirage People and the Ground Mist People prepared to go with her. She said goodbye to First Man and First Woman and to her two sons. Then she and the Holy People passed through the mountains at Béésh łichíí' (Red Knife), and in the Ch'ínlí Valley they celebrated her betrothal to Jóhonaa'éí. Her hips widened, and her breasts grew large. The elk and buffalo multiplied, and some left her herd to form other herds and spread across the land. At last she and her party and animals came to the end of the land, and then to her floating house beyond the shore. Then Naayéé' Neizghání, Monster Slayer, and his brother Tó Bájísh Chíní, Water Born, traveled to Tó Aheedlí[54], where the Pine River flows into the San Juan, and there they continue to live below the earth. A petroglyph was made on the canyon wall just above the water level to mark the place. [55] Then Jóhonaa'éí, the Sun, said that it was time for the first four Holy People to depart from the surface of the Fourth World. These four, who had come from the First World, were First Man, Áłtsé Hastiin, First Woman, Áłtsé Asdzą́ą́, Mąʼiitoʼí Áłchíní, Great Coyote, and the coyote Áłtsé Hashké, First Angry. They traveled east, beyond the house of the Sun, and took all their powers with them. As they began to travel, First Woman turned and said, "When I wish to do so, I will send back death from disease, and the sign will be the howl of the coyote." [56] Then the four Holy People who had come up from the Third World departed as well. They were Haashchʼéłtiʼí, Talking God, Tó Neinilí, Water Sprinkler, Hashchʼéoghan, House God, and Haashchʼééshzhiní, Black God, the god of fire. As they departed, Haashchʼéłtiʼi said, "If anyone sees us it will be a sign that an enemy is coming into the country. If he hears us call, that same person will be killed by an enemy before the day is over. And so saying they all returned to their homes and all their powers went with them.[57]

Asdzáá Nádleehé, Changing Woman, began to live in her Floating White Bead House, beyond the shore in the west.

Edited by granpa, 05 December 2012 - 02:08 AM.

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#63    Harte

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:34 AM

View Postthe L, on 04 December 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

Carl said it when some scientist (forgot his name) proposed idea that Venus was ejected from Jupiter. Then many scientists  tried to suppressed it.
"Scientist?'

He was a psychiatrist named Immanual Velikovsky.  He published the book "Worlds in Collision."  It was certainly not supressed.  It was ridiculed, and absolutely rightly so - it still stands today as the stupidest book I've ever read, making Erik VonDaniken look like Isaac Newton.

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#64    DieChecker

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:40 AM

View PostHarte, on 05 December 2012 - 02:34 AM, said:

making Erik VonDaniken look like Isaac Newton.
And that..... is actually saying something!!!

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#65    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:55 AM

That is point. No matter how idea sound it cant be suppressed. And yes thats word Carl Sagan used. Go to 33:17

*snip*

Edited by Saru, 05 December 2012 - 11:00 AM.
Video removed for copyright reasons

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#66    Balin

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:21 AM

Was Atlantis one of the seven wonders of the ancient world?


#67    Harte

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 01:15 PM

No.

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#68    docyabut2

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 01:05 AM

There is a record of a storm that destroyed Egypt, around 1550bc. Perhaps the eruption of Threa.Which also relates to the Cecrops dynasties of the 1500 `s hundreds bc, the kings of Athens, that were said to have been in the Atlantis`s war.

The Tempest Stele (alt. Storm Stele) was erected by Ahmose I early in the eighteenth dynasty of Egypt, circa 1550 BCE. The stele describes a great storm striking Egypt during this time, destroying tombs, temples and pyramids in the Theban region and the work of restoration ordered by the king.[


http://en.wikipedia....i/Tempest_Stele

Plato
This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon,


http://www.forumanci...Chronology.html


Edited by docyabut2, 30 May 2013 - 01:51 AM.


#69    docyabut2

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 01:21 AM

The tale did say

Let me begin by observing first of all, that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place between those who dwelt outside the Pillars of Heracles and all who dwelt within them; this war I am going to describe. Of the combatants on the one side, the city of Athens was reported to have been the leader and to have fought out the war; the combatants on the other side were commanded by the kings of Atlantis, which, as was saying, was an island greater in extent than Libya and Asia, and when afterwards sunk by an earthquake, became an impassable barrier of mud to voyagers sailing from hence to any part of the sea. The progress of the history will unfold the various nations of barbarians and families of Hellenes which then existed, as they successively appear on the scene; but I must describe first of all Athenians of that day, and their enemies who fought with them, and then the respective powers and governments of the two kingdoms. Let us give the precedence to Athens.

In the days of old the gods had the whole earth distributed among them by allotment. There was no quarrelling; for you cannot rightly suppose that the gods did not know what was proper for each of them to have, or, knowing this, that they would seek to procure for themselves by contention that which more properly belonged to others.



This was a war of the Gods that began  9,000 years ago in Solon poem, that ended in 1500bc



Plato
This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon,

http://www.forumanci...Chronology.html

Edited by docyabut2, 30 May 2013 - 01:50 AM.


#70    whitegandalf

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 04:49 AM

View PostDuncansmom, on 30 November 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:

I don't know where it was but I think they should keep looking - I believe they did find that Troy was more than the myth they had once assumed.

One of the things that I find interesting is that the Greek god Posideon, the "mythical" king/god of the sea and of Atlantis is always depicted with race horses.  Plato mentions the Atlanteans love of racing and their race tracks in his narrative.  Why would the god of the sea, Posideon, be shown with horses and not... say dolphins maybe ?

I would suggest,that if existed, Atlantis would have mainly be a sea based civilisation, created a network of ship trade highways around the world. But Such a large civilisation would also have neighbours, allies and perhaps some Atlantis land based cultures also, here and there, which was based around the horse (raindeer, cow, sheep ++). Like the mongols and the sami.

Edited by whitegandalf, 30 May 2013 - 04:50 AM.


#71    docyabut2

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 11:19 AM

Poseidon, the earth-shaker, was alotted the dominion of the sea
Posedion was the God of earthquakes and the sea , was the first to concern himself with seafaring, and the first to tame horses.

Edited by docyabut2, 30 May 2013 - 11:20 AM.


#72    Proclus

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 08:49 PM

The Atlantis Newsletter: Now in English!

I decided to switch from German to English, see the first English newsletters, here:
http://www.atlantis-...wsl_archive.htm

... and find the subscription page here:
http://www.atlantis-..._newsletter.htm

_

Academic approaches towards Atlantis as a real place: www.Atlantis-Scout.de!

#73    docyabut2

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:08 AM

Solon live in the 500bc`s -What is puzzling the tale states the war was 9000 years before Solon, yet also places the war at the time of the kings of Athens  in history around 1500 bc`s  could the translations have meant  900 hunderd years instead of nine thousand years.



Plato
This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon,


King Cecrops 1 of Athens. 1582 bc


http://www.forumanci...Chronology.html

Edited by docyabut2, 31 May 2013 - 11:10 AM.


#74    The Puzzler

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 04:35 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 31 May 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

Solon live in the 500bc`s -What is puzzling the tale states the war was 9000 years before Solon, yet also places the war at the time of the kings of Athens  in history around 1500 bc`s  could the translations have meant  900 hunderd years instead of nine thousand years.



Plato
This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon,


King Cecrops 1 of Athens. 1582 bc


http://www.forumanci...Chronology.html

I'm not sure how early any of these (Cecrops etc)  were placed in a time frame, could be when Solon was told the story, they seemed to have lived much further back in time - Herodotus has Cadmus at least 2000BC.
Maybe not till later were they placed in a c.1500BC time.

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#75    docyabut2

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 08:06 AM

And they took care to preserve the same number of men and women through all time, being so many as were required for warlike purposes, then as now-that is to say, about twenty thousand.
Critias-Plato


The initial name of Athens was Akte or Aktike, named after the first king, Akteos. Posted Image Her second name, Kekropia, received it from the king, Kekrops, who succeeded Akteos, by marrying his daughter. According to the legend, his lower body was that of a dragon. During his reign, goddess Athena and Poseidon were competing for the protection of the city and each one offered presents. Poseidon struck the rock at the Acropolis with his trident (the three marks can be seen behind the Erectheion..) and a spring with salted water gushed up. With the blow also leaped the first horse, ready to serve the man faithfully, while Athena offered an olive tree. The legend tell us, that all the men of Athens voted for the gift of Poseidon and all the women, for the gift of Athena and because there was one woman more than the men, goddess Athena was selected and from her, the city took her name.
To defend the country from the Karian pirates from the sea and the Boeotians from the land, Kekrops, in order to manage better the population, distributed Attica in the following twelve sections: Aphidna, Brauron, Dekeleia, Epakria, Eleusis, Kekropia, Kephisius, Kytherus, Phalerus, Sphettus, Tetrapolis, Thorikus. He also ordered each man to cast a single stone and by counting the stones, it was found that they were twenty thousand inhabitants.



http://www.sikyon.co...ahist_eg01.html


That could`nt have been 9000 years before Solon .





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