69 replies to this topic

[preacherman76]

From your article



The scheme was to alter the Christian view of Zionism by creating and promoting a pro-Zionist subculture within Christianity. Scofield's role was to re-write the King James Version of the Bible by inserting Zionist-friendly notes in the margins, between verses and chapters, and on the bottoms of the pages. The Oxford University Press used Scofield, a pastor by then, as the Editor, probably because it needed such as man for a front. The revised bible was called the Scofield Reference Bible, and with limitless advertising and promotion, it became a best-selling "bible" in America and has remained so for 90 years.





I'll give him one thing, he has a wild imagination. Considering most biblical prophecy is found in the old test, the dead sea scrolls debunk this theory though. Care to take another wack at it?

[shaddow134]

You only have to look at the creation in Genesis to see how absurd the bible is.


Day 1 - God created light and separated the light from the darkness, calling light "day" and darkness "night.


Day 4 - God created the sun, moon, and the stars to give light to the earth and to govern and separate the day and the night. These would also serve as signs to mark seasons, days, and years.

Light is created 3 days before he creates the Sun,and day and night also.

Edited by shaddow134, 02 December 2012 - 04:14 PM.

[me-wonders]

and then, on 02 December 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

Essentially that is what the book of Revelation is about.  It is the revealing of the Person who will bring a new age for humanity.  The leader and King who will rule and reign for the good of all humanity.  It's not a message of doom and gloom even though a vast number of people will die.  The truth is that "nothing for us to do"  is a measure of frustration that humans cannot continue to have our own way even though we have proven countless times that we don't know the way of peace.  So the near destruction of our species will be stopped and the remnant who remain will finally be teachable.  I look forward to being in that remnant and I hope you are there too.

Book of revelation?  Why not Jose Arguelles book "The Mayan Factor"?  I think this book provides a more comprehensive explanation of what is happening.  

For sure our way must be alined with the laws of nature, and that is what democracy is suppose to be about, but unless we educated for that we can not manifest the democracy we are supposed to be.  For sure, the 1958 National Defense Education Act, hijacked our democracy, and turned us into a military machine, and this might have something to do with God's plan and the end of world as we know it?

Of course those who survive will be humbled, but I am not sure it will be the humble who dominate.  I think it is more likely it is the aggressors who will dominate.  I don't think humanity would have progressed without the aggressors, and I don't think many would survive without them.   Democracy is about uniting and keeping those aggressors in line with the good for all.   To make this comply with this thread, the problem in Israel is it is not a true democracy, and non Jews do not have equality.  For sure Muslims are prevented from entering the circle of power in Israel.  We need to be talking about Israel's politics and bring to light why there is a conflict between them and others.  I keep thinking, Rome drove them out, and wondering if today we are seeing why the Roman's drove them out?   Jews who oppose Israel and the Zionist movement, argue it is not God's will for Jews to return to Israel.  It could be that the Zionist Jews are going against the will of God, unless it is the will of a God to use war to destroy most of life on earth, and then is that a God we want to worship?

Edited by me-wonders, 02 December 2012 - 04:30 PM.

[and then]

If the Jews who currently inhabit Israel are "illegitimate" in some way then it sure is taking a long time for them to be displaced.  Personally I think that argument smells rather like another tired evil in code but I don't care to debate that endlessly as it does no good.  If I and many other Christian Zionists are wrong then Israel will fall to her enemies.  If you can seriously look at the region and say there is a better system of government there now or in the past 6 decades then I would have to wonder for your reasoning ability.  By any measure you can cite, Israelis are freer and more prosperous than any of their neighbors.  And every citizen - Palestinian Arab included - has a vote.  There are even non Jewish MK's.  If your point is that no non Jewish person can be PM or president I agree.  Israel is a state that was conceived as a Jewish homeland.  In every other place they have ever settled they have been stolen from, libeled and brutalized just for being Jews.  If they become a minority in Israel they would have the same thing happen to them there.  They would be subjected to dhimmitude within a couple of generations.  They choose not to let that happen again and the world is in no position to force it.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

shaddow134, on 02 December 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

You only have to look at the creation in Genesis to see how absurd the bible is.


Day 1 - God created light and separated the light from the darkness, calling light "day" and darkness "night.


Day 4 - God created the sun, moon, and the stars to give light to the earth and to govern and separate the day and the night. These would also serve as signs to mark seasons, days, and years.

Light is created 3 days before he creates the Sun,and day and night also.

Well nebula are bright aren't they?
And nebula are proto-solar systems. So there'd be light before the sun forms because of the luminous matter within the nebula.
We'd not have had a sun in the very early days of the formation of the solar system, but there's a good chance of some illumination.

[shaddow134]

Wearer of Hats, on 02 December 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

Well nebula are bright aren't they?
And nebula are proto-solar systems. So there'd be light before the sun forms because of the luminous matter within the nebula.
We'd not have had a sun in the very early days of the formation of the solar system, but there's a good chance of some illumination.

Yeah but then you wouldn't have any distinction between night and day would there.Seriously though,the Bible cannot be trusted as a historical account of early man and despite what some may say is purely based on Interpretation depending on your own beliefs.

At the end of the day i am not judging anyone because of their beliefs,i'm just saying i don't believe in Prophecy and don't view anything in Revelations as Prophecy.Just the Writings of a guy who was writing in code because he was on the run from the Romans.

[shaddow134]

and then, on 02 December 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

If the Jews who currently inhabit Israel are "illegitimate" in some way then it sure is taking a long time for them to be displaced.  Personally I think that argument smells rather like another tired evil in code but I don't care to debate that endlessly as it does no good.  If I and many other Christian Zionists are wrong then Israel will fall to her enemies.  If you can seriously look at the region and say there is a better system of government there now or in the past 6 decades then I would have to wonder for your reasoning ability.  By any measure you can cite, Israelis are freer and more prosperous than any of their neighbors.  And every citizen - Palestinian Arab included - has a vote.  There are even non Jewish MK's.  If your point is that no non Jewish person can be PM or president I agree.  Israel is a state that was conceived as a Jewish homeland.  In every other place they have ever settled they have been stolen from, libeled and brutalized just for being Jews.  If they become a minority in Israel they would have the same thing happen to them there.  They would be subjected to dhimmitude within a couple of generations.  They choose not to let that happen again and the world is in no position to force it.

Isreal doesn't need to fall,both sides need to change their doctrine and how they view each other.
Personally speaking,i think both sides could live with each other but there will need to be a major change of viewpoints.

[and then]

shaddow134, on 02 December 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

Isreal doesn't need to fall,both sides need to change their doctrine and how they view each other.
Personally speaking,i think both sides could live with each other but there will need to be a major change of viewpoints.

I agree completely.  In any other situation where two groups have such a dispute people have historically been able to find a solution but these two..... as you know, I am a believer and look to scripture as my frame of reference.  This situation reminds me of God's "hardening of pharaoh's heart" when Moses was sent to deliver the people of Israel from Egypt.  God actually used pharaoh to "make His point" and show His power for future generations of humans to see and respect.   I think this otherwise fixable situation is being created supernaturally by God to do the same thing.  He is creating a "teaching moment" for the human race.  It seems almost evil from a human POV but have we done any better ourselves?  I think this war between these two members of the same bloodline was always intended to be a final lesson on the futility of hatred and warfare.  I think it will be the catalyst that pushes the whole world to the edge of extinction.

[WHO U KIDDIN]

preacherman76, on 02 December 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

From your article



The scheme was to alter the Christian view of Zionism by creating and promoting a pro-Zionist subculture within Christianity. Scofield's role was to re-write the King James Version of the Bible by inserting Zionist-friendly notes in the margins, between verses and chapters, and on the bottoms of the pages. The Oxford University Press used Scofield, a pastor by then, as the Editor, probably because it needed such as man for a front. The revised bible was called the Scofield Reference Bible, and with limitless advertising and promotion, it became a best-selling "bible" in America and has remained so for 90 years.





I'll give him one thing, he has a wild imagination. Considering most biblical prophecy is found in the old test, the dead sea scrolls debunk this theory though. Care to take another wack at it?

Not as wild an imagination as Hagee and the minions that shallow the Christian Zionist trite, hook, line, and sinker.

And neither is Carlson's article debunked by the dead sea scrolls, that's an absolutely absurd statement.

It's an established fact that many Christian Zionist still use the Scofield's Reference Bible (SRB), some groups have just recently added the new Dead Sea Bible, but the SRB remains their main bible study tool.

[and then]

WHO U KIDDIN, on 03 December 2012 - 11:57 PM, said:

Not as wild an imagination as Hagee and the minions that shallow the Christian Zionist trite, hook, line, and sinker.

And neither is Carlson's article debunked by the dead sea scrolls, that's an absolutely absurd statement.

It's an established fact that many Christian Zionist still use the Scofield's Reference Bible (SRB), some groups have just recently added the new Dead Sea Bible, but the SRB remains their main bible study tool.

WOW...I don't think I've ever been considered a "minion" before.  Things are looking up    Seriously though, are you really tossing a group that consists of millions of well meaning, often quite productive and responsible people into the category of mentally feeble just because they have a religious belief in the right of Jews to return to land that cannot be denied to be their historical heritage?  Seems a bit harsh.  Truth is that many of the Jews in Israel probably laugh in amazement at what they consider to be the gullibility of Christian Zionists as well.  It's a sincerely held belief nonetheless.  I've always used the KJ or NKJ for worship and study.  The propaganda you mention may very well be real - I don't know and cannot speak to it.  I think that most of the anti Israel crowd - lets face it, that's what it really comes down to - are well meaning.  They are simply trying to support the perceived under dog in this conflict.  When I was very young, that's what attracted me to support of Israel long before I did so for religious reasons.  It's ironic that their success at survival has marked them as the evil in the equation but I guess it's difficult to shake off the hatred of millennia.