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#1    Matt Vinyl

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:00 AM

https://www.youtube....be_gdata_player

Essentially, the video is irrelevant. But it made think (I admit, Friday night post-pub) how fascinating us humans are.

We create 4000 post long threads regarding saucepans, bowls, other parephernalia. And yet...

Erm, maybe ignore this thread I've theoretically been to Donteatus' BBQ. :-)

And do you ever contradict yourself? Well, yes and no...

#2    freetoroam

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:33 AM

Hiya Matt, did you get a "take out"?

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#3    Matt Vinyl

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:32 AM

A couple. lol. :-) Well. Eight...

And do you ever contradict yourself? Well, yes and no...

#4    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:19 AM

Don't even get me started on the subject of "us humans".  LOL


#5    DONTEATUS

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:22 AM

YEah ! U.S. Humans specially, were the whole problem in the equation! :tu:

This is a Work in Progress!

#6    Matt Vinyl

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:38 AM

Apologies for my er, rather drunken natterings. lol!

All the best, M.

And do you ever contradict yourself? Well, yes and no...

#7    Bonecrusher

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:45 AM

Hey! Don't knock the human race...

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#8    Hazzard

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:12 PM

I believe that humans are "special" in the universe.

Could humans have developed on other planets?

I find that very very, VERY unlikely. Humans are something that evolved on this planet. For there to be humans elsewhere in the universe, everything would have to be exactly like our planet.

For example, exactly one AU from a star, a star exactly one solar mass, exactly the same amount gases in the planets atmosphere as ours, a planet with exactly the same gravity as ours, one Moon which has exactly the same mass as ours, the major extinction events, and the list just keeps going on and on,...

The odds are staggering. Although its likely life exists elsewhere, but I find it hard to believe that they will look anything like humans.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#9    Bonecrusher

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:38 PM

Here's some evidence as to why humans are unique...
We are the only species who are fully aware of their surroundings
We are the only species who are wiling to learn something through trial and error.
As the technology gets better the process accelerates to invent even better technology.
Eventually we will not be reliant on fossil fuels and invent inter-galactic spacecraft.
The sudden advances in nano-technology could kill two birds with one stone.
We have also got over the lack of fur  from evolution by wearing clothing.
We can also practically eat anything and due to our awareness we can decide whether food is either good for your health or ethical.
We have also been called an apex predator and I can't see any evidence that contradicts this.
We can invent weapons that level the playing field and put us on top of the food chain.
We are the only species that talk with their vocal cords without nothing being repeated.
And I strongly suspect some of our more prominent traits muscled the Neanderthals out and caused their demise.

Edited by Walnut Whip, 01 December 2012 - 01:39 PM.

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#10    Babe Ruth

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:55 PM

View PostWalnut Whip, on 01 December 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Here's some evidence as to why humans are unique...
We are the only species who are fully aware of their surroundings
We are the only species who are wiling to learn something through trial and error.
As the technology gets better the process accelerates to invent even better technology.
Eventually we will not be reliant on fossil fuels and invent inter-galactic spacecraft.
The sudden advances in nano-technology could kill two birds with one stone.
We have also got over the lack of fur  from evolution by wearing clothing.
We can also practically eat anything and due to our awareness we can decide whether food is either good for your health or ethical.
We have also been called an apex predator and I can't see any evidence that contradicts this.
We can invent weapons that level the playing field and put us on top of the food chain.
We are the only species that talk with their vocal cords without nothing being repeated.
And I strongly suspect some of our more prominent traits muscled the Neanderthals out and caused their demise.

...and our DNA has a large portion that has been called extra-terrestial in origin by the Human Genome Project.


#11    Liquid Gardens

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:38 PM

View PostWalnut Whip, on 01 December 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Here's some evidence as to why humans are unique...
We are the only species who are fully aware of their surroundings

Hmmm, how are you defining 'fully aware'?  There are all kinds of animals that have superior senses and awareness; our vision is poor compared to most birds, our sense of smell is not even in the ballpark of a dog or a shark, etc.

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We are the only species who are wiling to learn something through trial and error.

I think this is debatable. Crows and some primates can use tools, and that seems to be a process that is subject to trial and error.  If you punish your dog for getting in the garbage, they can learn not to do it because of the response they get from their owner.

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We can also practically eat anything and due to our awareness we can decide whether food is either good for your health or ethical.

There is no such thing as ethics for other animal species.  Humans are one of the only species who has the luxury of leisure time in which to contemplate 'ethics' partly because for many of us our basic survival needs are easily taken care of and we are not constantly under threat of predation.  Many animals must spend most of their time tending to their basic survival and reproductive needs, it's not 'unethical' for any animal to kill any other animal.  If drinking water becomes scarce and the only way many people could obtain it is by taking it from other people I think you'd see ethics get swept away pretty quickly.

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We have also been called an apex predator and I can't see any evidence that contradicts this.

True, but it's a little selective.  Drop us in the middle of the ocean or the savannah or grizzly bear country with just the clothes on our back and we're definitely not an apex predator, we're more like 'lunch'.

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We can invent weapons that level the playing field and put us on top of the food chain.

Yet some of the greatest human losses in history were caused by mere micro-organisms.  I'm not disputing your main point, but all animal species are unique, amazingly so.  Is our intelligence so much more unique than say a spider's webspinning ability?

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#12    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:53 PM

View PostHazzard, on 01 December 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

I believe that humans are "special" in the universe.

Could humans have developed on other planets?

I find that very very, VERY unlikely. Humans are something that evolved on this planet. For there to be humans elsewhere in the universe, everything would have to be exactly like our planet.

For example, exactly one AU from a star, a star exactly one solar mass, exactly the same amount gases in the planets atmosphere as ours, a planet with exactly the same gravity as ours, one Moon which has exactly the same mass as ours, the major extinction events, and the list just keeps going on and on,...

The odds are staggering. Although its likely life exists elsewhere, but I find it hard to believe that they will look anything like humans.
I do find it quite amusing that all this might well be taken as an argument for some kind of design in the evolutionary process, or even a designer God ....
it's a fascinating question, isn't it. Is it more likely that conditions being just right are the result of just the right coincidences having happened, and we're just the end result of a very long process of incredibly precise natural selection, or that there may have been some planning, and/or some direction, along the way? I wonder why so many see this as such an outlandish and absurd and preposterous and downright insane notion?

... and then, of course, if the latter insane and absurd suggestion was in fact the case, then why should we suppose that we are the specially Chosen ones, and this was the only planet on which such a thing may have been done? That would be remarkably arrogant, wouldn't it. Who knows, perhaps life might have been "promoted", if you like, or conditions adjusted so that they were just right, on many different planets ... ?


...but that's such an absurd and insane and downright running-round-in-circles-drooling-at-the-Mouth notion that no sane and rational person would possibly entertain it for a minute, isn't it.

:innocent:

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#13    Liquid Gardens

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:13 PM

View Post747400, on 01 December 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

I do find it quite amusing that all this might well be taken as an argument for some kind of design in the evolutionary process, or even a designer God ....
it's a fascinating question, isn't it. Is it more likely that conditions being just right are the result of just the right coincidences having happened, and we're just the end result of a very long process of incredibly precise natural selection, or that there may have been some planning, and/or some direction, along the way? I wonder why so many see this as such an outlandish and absurd and preposterous and downright insane notion?

It is indeed without a doubt a fascinating question.  I guess I don't see so many who see that as an insane or preposterous notion, as much as they note that people who say that the apparent design of life is evidence of some predetermined direction or purpose (usually by God) do not have that good of an argument to back up their claim.  Snowflakes look remarkably designed, they are intricate and detailed, somewhat symmetrical, and unique, they're not just random amorphous blobs of frozen precipitation. But not many people go around saying that the science of crystallization is indicative of an overall direction or purpose.

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... and then, of course, if the latter insane and absurd suggestion was in fact the case, then why should we suppose that we are the specially Chosen ones, and this was the only planet on which such a thing may have been done? That would be remarkably arrogant, wouldn't it. Who knows, perhaps life might have been "promoted", if you like, or conditions adjusted so that they were just right, on many different planets ... ?

...but that's such an absurd and insane and downright running-round-in-circles-drooling-at-the-Mouth notion that no sane and rational person would possibly entertain it for a minute, isn't it.

:innocent:

Agreed, no reason to assume we're specially 'chosen' anything.  Perhaps life was 'promoted', don't know if we'll ever know for sure.  If the promoter or director is God, there is no need at all to adjust conditions so they were 'just right', he would have just built whatever he needed in to the universe when he created it.  If the promoters are some kind of extra-terrestrials, then why isn't it an issue that they then must have been the result of just the right coincidences?  If their form of life can emerge from just the right coincidences, than why not us?  

Fun thought-provoking stuff.  Cool Lovecraft quote by the way also, 7.

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#14    Bonecrusher

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:57 PM

I'm not getting to grips with this multi-quoting malarkey!

Edited by Walnut Whip, 01 December 2012 - 05:05 PM.

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#15    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 05:15 PM

View PostLiquid Gardens, on 01 December 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

It is indeed without a doubt a fascinating question.  I guess I don't see so many who see that as an insane or preposterous notion, as much as they note that people who say that the apparent design of life is evidence of some predetermined direction or purpose (usually by God) do not have that good of an argument to back up their claim.  Snowflakes look remarkably designed, they are intricate and detailed, somewhat symmetrical, and unique, they're not just random amorphous blobs of frozen precipitation. But not many people go around saying that the science of crystallization is indicative of an overall direction or purpose.



Agreed, no reason to assume we're specially 'chosen' anything.  Perhaps life was 'promoted', don't know if we'll ever know for sure.  If the promoter or director is God, there is no need at all to adjust conditions so they were 'just right', he would have just built whatever he needed in to the universe when he created it.  If the promoters are some kind of extra-terrestrials, then why isn't it an issue that they then must have been the result of just the right coincidences?  If their form of life can emerge from just the right coincidences, than why not us?  

Fun thought-provoking stuff.  Cool Lovecraft quote by the way also, 7.
What if "God" (for the sake of argument) didn't so much as design everything from every leaf to every little bird to every one of us, but sort of set out the parameters and the rules by which the processes fo evolution happened, kind of setting out the basic principles and then left the Universe to get on by itself, while perhaps making sure that it didn't all go pear-shaped by keeping an eye on it and maybe giving the paramters a subtle nudge from time to time/ That needn't mean that evolution need be in opposition to the idea of some guiding intelligence at all.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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