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Catholic Church sets up an exorcist hotline

exorcist hotline monsignor angelo mascheroni milan catholic church

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#16    Sakari

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:57 AM

View PostMysticStrummer, on 02 December 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

You're better off sticking with your usual method and saying no one gets possessed, Sakari. There are in fact accounts of atheists being possessed and then exorcised, so apparently belief isn't necessarily a prerequisite for whatever the condition is, mental or spiritual.


Please share with us some evidence to back that up....Not just stories from a site saying " I was a atheist, and I was possessed".

I only ask, because you say " there are in fact...."





Quote

Has there ever been any record of an atheist getting possessed by demonic forces?


It depends on what you call a record. There have been people who claimed to have been previously atheist until they were posessed and God came into their life and ousted the demon. But I can find no records of anyone having known an atheist previously who then went through this. In other words, it's never been seen or documented by an outside observer........................................

If you are looking for the answer to whether or not demons are real, you need not look to atheists for the answer. There are countless other religions out there that do not believe in demons or anything similar. And of course, since they do not believe in demons, they don;t have trouble with them either................

http://wiki.answers...._demonic_forces






I do not know why people get so mad when I say " just do not believe in them "


It is true.

Edited by Sakari, 02 December 2012 - 01:03 AM.

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#17    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 07:44 AM

Oh no, this hasn't turned into yet another "Everyone should become an Atheist, they're more intelligent" argument, has it?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

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#18    drewid

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:37 PM

Isn't this a bit of a step backwards? Personally, I feel possesion is misdiagnosis of a mental illness. I do believe in spirits but the church dosen't exactly have a good history of being the most rational and logical of institutions.


#19    Rlyeh

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:48 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 01 December 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

People do laugh about these things, until the impossible happens to them.
People laugh at archaic and asinine concepts.

Quote

All over the world 'demonic' activity is reported, not only now but all through history.
Human ignorance gets credit for that.

Quote

Though a hot line does seem a bit absurd, if truth be told.  However in an age when unbelief in these kinds of things is rampant, it may cause an upsurge since people can get involved in things that can harm them and do not know how to protect themselves.
If this forum is any indication, non-belief seesm to be the biggest enemy of demonic entities.


#20    markdohle

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:01 PM

View Postdrewid, on 02 December 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

Isn't this a bit of a step backwards? Personally, I feel possesion is misdiagnosis of a mental illness. I do believe in spirits but the church dosen't exactly have a good history of being the most rational and logical of institutions.

How modern of you.  It is an exerience that has been part of mankind from the beginning.  We can be such snobs, as if we and only we of this generation have the truth about what goes on in man, and also have the wider world figured out.

The catholic church does actually have a good reputation for being rational and logical, that is one reason it will still be around long after much of what we hold dear and true today will be forgotten.....http://www.pamphlets.org.au/australia/acts0695.html.

If you look up the page I placed here, I don't expect you to agree, but it says a lot for the church.

Peace
Mark


#21    markdohle

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:07 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 02 December 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

People laugh at archaic and asinine concepts.

Human ignorance gets credit for that.

If this forum is any indication, non-belief seesm to be the biggest enemy of demonic entities.

Exorcism is not archaic and asinine, well it is in you mind ;-)....an opinion....yet people do in fact get possesed, rare but it does happen.  Belief in the demonic is based on common human experience, which will not change.  Different reasons will be given, depending on ones belief system, yet it does happen.  I have know priest who have experienced this, impossible things that should not have happened.  One priest was a total disbeliever in such things, as many priest these days are, yet it happened to him.  Almost made him lose his mind.  The force he felt was cold, evil and filled only with hatred and contempt for all things human as well as for God.  I wish you are right, but that would be wishful thinking on my part.  Atheism is a clean, pure way to believe, yet it does not hold up from experience.  Hopefully you will never have to experience anything like this.

Peace
Mark


#22    Rlyeh

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:19 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 02 December 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

Exorcism is not archaic and asinine, well it is in you mind ;-)....an opinion....yet people do in fact get possesed, rare but it does happen.  Belief in the demonic is based on common human experience, which will not change.  Different reasons will be given, depending on ones belief system, yet it does happen.  I have know priest who have experienced this, impossible things that should not have happened.  One priest was a total disbeliever in such things, as many priest these days are, yet it happened to him.  Almost made him lose his mind.  The force he felt was cold, evil and filled only with hatred and contempt for all things human as well as for God.  I wish you are right, but that would be wishful thinking on my part.  Atheism is a clean, pure way to believe, yet it does not hold up from experience.  Hopefully you will never have to experience anything like this.
More wishful thinking? You're not presenting facts (at least no more factual than Zeus throwing lightning bolts), you're re-telling anecdotes. I've heard of all kinds of amusing exaggerated stories.
Sounds like someone sold you a bridge and you bought it.


#23    markdohle

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:29 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 02 December 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

More wishful thinking? You're not presenting facts (at least no more factual than Zeus throwing lightning bolts), you're re-telling anecdotes. I've heard of all kinds of amusing exaggerated stories.
Sounds like someone sold you a bridge and you bought it.

I am not trying to change your mind my friend.  You have your beliefs, that I am sure you have worked hard to develop, why would I want to change that? Peoples experiences are important and their experiences change them, not sure anyone has been changed by Zeus lately ;-).  Again, fanciful is about something pleasant, to think that there is a demonic realm is not a comfort for anyone that I know.  Those who experience the demonic wish it never happened and would want to live in the world that you do....at times so would I.

Here is something I found, just another experience that others have with the demonic, or what we call demonic:
http://www.wnd.com/2008/03/58835/.

Peace
Mark


#24    Sakari

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:48 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 02 December 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

Exorcism is not archaic and asinine, well it is in you mind ;-)....an opinion....yet people do in fact get possesed, rare but it does happen.  Belief in the demonic is based on common human experience, which will not change.  Different reasons will be given, depending on ones belief system, yet it does happen.  I have know priest who have experienced this, impossible things that should not have happened.  One priest was a total disbeliever in such things, as many priest these days are, yet it happened to him.  Almost made him lose his mind.  The force he felt was cold, evil and filled only with hatred and contempt for all things human as well as for God.  I wish you are right, but that would be wishful thinking on my part.  Atheism is a clean, pure way to believe, yet it does not hold up from experience.  Hopefully you will never have to experience anything like this.

Peace
Mark




There is no fact in possession at all.

Different reasons based on belief systems?.........The only fact on this is Psychological.

It is when someone puts " fact " into something that has no evidence at all to back it up as fact. If it is opinion, or a belief, no problem.

If you are going to say fact, please add some verifiable evidence to support it, not theories or hear say.

Or just say " It is my belief "........Can not argue with that. ( can discuss it though, to a point )

Edited by Sakari, 02 December 2012 - 04:49 PM.

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#25    notforgotten

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 09:47 PM

This is good to hear because I've been possessed by a demon twice, fortunately, it was short lived. Possession is a good example of one way that we are shackled to the "evil one" without god.  Also, without god we are evil and wicked for all of eternity. This is the evil in which Jesus Christ delivers us from.


#26    MysticStrummer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:37 PM

Sakari, what I said is that there are accounts of atheists being possessed and exorcised. That is true, there are stories in books and on websites, but no account I can possibly point you to could be taken as proof. It's not proof of possession. It's not proof of exorcism. It's not proof of anything, but neither are the things you post. Posting alternative mental illness related explanations doesn't disprove possession. Posting a list of exorcism deaths doesn't disprove exorcism. Neither side can claim to have proven their claim. I can only speak for myself, but your questioning the subject certainly doesn't make me mad. I just think it's puzzling that you believe you're proving anything. Also, quoting from one of the first websites that comes up when you google the subject just tells me you looked long enough to find something that backed up what you believe and then stopped looking.

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#27    Sakari

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:45 PM

View PostMysticStrummer, on 02 December 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

Sakari, what I said is that there are accounts of atheists being possessed and exorcised. That is true, there are stories in books and on websites, but no account I can possibly point you to could be taken as proof. It's not proof of possession. It's not proof of exorcism. It's not proof of anything, but neither are the things you post. Posting alternative mental illness related explanations doesn't disprove possession. Posting a list of exorcism deaths doesn't disprove exorcism. Neither side can claim to have proven their claim. I can only speak for myself, but your questioning the subject certainly doesn't make me mad. I just think it's puzzling that you believe you're proving anything. Also, quoting from one of the first websites that comes up when you google the subject just tells me you looked long enough to find something that backed up what you believe and then stopped looking.


A lot of people get confused over this. I ( and a lot of others here ) are not trying to " disprove " anything. It is not our job to prove something does not exist. It is the person, or peoples job to prove something they say or believe is true.

I ( and a lot of others ) give facts to Psychological issues.From journals, and / or proven diagnosis. Not just from opinion in books or websites.( and not usually the first thing found on google, by the way I use bing )

It would be very easy to go through anything that has real, verifiable facts, and put my own spin on it, saying that the professionals are wrong, especially if people had to prove I was wrong.

It is not a game of whom is wrong or right, it is asking people if they say something is fact, and not just belief, to back it up with evidence.

When it comes to anything that can ( and is ) a medical issue, I think it is important to remember this.

I am glad you do not get mad, as that is not my intent. As I have said a thousand times, if people would just say " this is what I believe, but can not prove it ", there would be little discussion at all. Maybe some " what makes you believe that " things, but no where near what happens when someone push's belief as fact.

I am not proving anything, I am just sharing facts with others that have not researched them, and have been using belief as fact. I also do it without name calling or blatant sarcasm on every reply. ( not saying you, a lot of people are guilty of it on both sides ) I am also able to see, I have seen plenty of people on this site, and others read topics from people and say " wow, thanks, I did not know that ". I myself used to go off of anything I read or heard, so from people doing as I and lot of other people do, I have educated myself, and found fact from belief.

Again, I am not trying to prove anything, and I hope this made it clear. I have explained this ( a lot of us have ) numerous times now. There are even topics on it.

As for quoting the first thing I googled......Who cares?.....I have posted so many things from journals, etc. on to many topics to name. I have spent who knows how long studying this topic. I posted what I thought was fitting for the reply. Would you have actually changed your mind if I had quoted the 123rd thing found on google instead of the first? If I were a Psychologist, I would just post my own facts. I am not, so I quote those whom are.

Edited by Sakari, 02 December 2012 - 10:56 PM.

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#28    darkmoonlady

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:30 AM

Possession is something that has reached the level of popular culture and therefore the seeds of the idea are planted in the population such that when someone exhibits mental illness a small fraction are going to be called possessed. The reason they are called possessed has more to do with the belief structure they have, and saying that "atheists have been possessed" is not saying much seeing as SOMEONE in the situation has to have a religious background to even bring possession as a possibility in the first place. That the person is thought to be possessed is proof of a religious influence on their "diagnosis" seeing as a mainstream physician or psychiatrist wouldn't ever bring up possession. They don't teach possession as anything real in medical school so even if an atheist were to be said to be "possessed" it would be coming from a professional with a religious bent who is making that call.

The reason the Catholic church is now putting up a call in hotline says more about the church attempting to stay relevant in times where Catholic church attendance is dwindling and it's publicity for the church. Sadly mentally ill people are prone to religious imagery in their mental illnesses which is then taken as "see if Bob is babbling about the devil, he must be possessed".. If a family is dealing with a person in the family with severe mental issues AND the family is religious it ups the chances immensely that possession will be brought up as a causal basis for the persons mental issue. There are plenty of people who are in the care of secular doctors who exhibit signs of what some in the church would label as possession that are simply suffering from a complex mental illness with religious mania as part of that. Just because a person growls or spits, claws themselves or any of the other symptoms associated with supposed possession those symptoms aren't outside the realm of your garden variety mental illness. Possession is a misdiagnosis by professionals with a religious bent and nothing more.

“The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance …or change... logic can be happily tossed out the window. Religious mania is one of the few infallible ways of responding to the worlds vagaries, because it totally eliminates pure accident. To the true religious maniac, it’s ALL on purpose” – Stephen King, The Stand

#29    GreenmansGod

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:51 AM

Wise words m'Lady. :tu:

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." Salman Rushdie

#30    teetay08

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:01 PM

- if i shall ever be possess... imma just have to deal with cause im deff. not going to them catholic people. :no:

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