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Dogmatic Science


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#91    Copasetic

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:42 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 12 December 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

Dogma in the scientific community is not phony. I have spoken with PhDs in physics and chemistry, and they pretty much all agree. ( the ones I have spoken to anyway). Academia is political just like everything else. Sometimes it's a good idea to be skeptical of the skeptical.

Of course there is politicking. Any and every human institution has politicking. To believe otherwise one would have to be very naive about human institutions. And of course it good to be skeptical. You should always be skeptical of any claim, scientific or otherwise, claims about institutions, claims about anything that any human makes (dogs on the hand, you should always accept their claims at face value and without doubt :yes: )

Just remember though, there is often a baby in that bathwater, so be careful throwing it out!


#92    White Crane Feather

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:43 PM

Got to pick the kids up... Catch you latter.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#93    Copasetic

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:44 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 12 December 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

Yes that's exactly what I did.... Sheesh... I did not have to assume anything, all I needed to do was see how you interact with others. I told the person who pmed me not to worry I have argued with know-it-alls before.

Well at least you can admit it.

Ahh, so now I am a know-it-all. Christ dude, weren't you just on the moral high road shouting about ad homs? Hows the view look from up there in your glass house?

View PostSeeker79, on 12 December 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

Got to pick the kids up... Catch you latter.

Enjoy your time with them!

Edited by Copasetic, 12 December 2012 - 08:44 PM.


#94    White Crane Feather

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:07 PM

View PostCopasetic, on 12 December 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:



Well at least you can admit it.

Ahh, so now I am a know-it-all. Christ dude, weren't you just on the moral high road shouting about ad homs? Hows the view look from up there in your glass house?



Enjoy your time with them!
They were his words not mine.

Thanks, got some competition prep today for my team, should be fun.

Edited by Seeker79, 12 December 2012 - 09:08 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#95    Cybele

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:33 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 11 December 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

Well I'll look up some of the peer review then ( I assure you it exists you could do it yourself after all you have access to journals that I dont)..... I know his "looking not looking" experiments have been repeated many times. Also his dog experiments. I think Dawkins was even apart of that one. Mixed results nothing conclusive if I remember correctly. There is always a lot of criticism of positive result of course.

Results of nearly all experiments are expressed in significance with margins for error.

I used to tutor statistics a dozen years ago, so I am however very aware at the ability to manipulate numbers. Hence peer review.

I actually don't have access to journal articles within the biological sciences or psychology. If I could get special access to such articles, I wouldn't be able to share them here for legal reasons.

I'm no expert in statistics, but am vaguely aware of the concept of "manipulating numbers" to get significant p-values (which some journals in the past refused to report, and used 95% CI instead, because of the inherent problems with the former). This wasn't what I was refering to. Rather, I was refering to how well a study is designed to minimize the possibilty of bias, confounding or random error. My knowledge of this is within the context of social sciences, so I'm not sure how well this would apply to biology or experiments with animals. Nevertheless, if a study involving, dogs, say, were poorly controlled--if the experimenters weren't blinded, for example--then the statistics would likely end up giving you biased (innacurate) results.

View PostI believe you, on 04 December 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

Noam Chomsky made the point that matter itself might one day be defined differently so science cannot be based on materialism forever.

The statement above uses an uncertainty to justify a definite conclusion. Do you not see the logical error in this?

"We don't know everything, so materialism is flawed and scientists should open their minds to spiritual explanations". This is what Sheldrake's article really comes down to, as far as I can tell. It's a well-written in places, but makes some deeply-flawed leaps in logic.

Edited by Cybele, 12 December 2012 - 11:36 PM.

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#96    White Crane Feather

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:24 AM

Materialism/physicalism is already gone. We simply are In the phase of the entrenched mindset hanging on and not acknowledging that things have move so far beyond those definitions that it's useless to maintain those particular labels. We can either give it a new name or keep redefining what materialism/physicalism actually is just to keep the those who have chosen that philosophy from facing their cognitive dissidence.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-




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