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Quick Introduction to Israel and Palestine

jewish voice peace palestine israel

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#16    Dan'O

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:57 PM

View Postwith bells on, on 07 December 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

the OP was a good watch.. thanks for posting..


@Dan'o.. what do you expect? the US have been funding this human rights disaster.. and sticking their nose into the whole Middle East area, for so many years, why wouldn't they be happy?? clearly the rest of the world was horrified, as was i.. it was not only a hit on the US but felt like a hit on all of us.. i believe the US and Mossad were behind 911 anyway.. its a joke.. so no wonder they had film crews filing this rejoicing.. its all part of the brainwashing.. just like this Iran is a threat joke.. Israel is the one we should be placing sanctions on.. the world has had enough..

Well with conspiracies aside I have not nor would I allow my family or neighbors to dance and celebrate in the streets when Palestinians are attacked. Especially if an attacked killed thousands of them. I will continue to pray for peace.


#17    Yamato

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:14 PM

View PostDan, on 07 December 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

Well with conspiracies aside I have not nor would I allow my family or neighbors to dance and celebrate in the streets when Palestinians are attacked. Especially if an attacked killed thousands of them. I will continue to pray for peace.
You wouldn't allow them?   Your family and certainly your neighbors are allowed to dance in the streets for whatever reason they want to.   That's freedom of expression.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#18    Dan'O

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:23 PM

Dancing and celebrating killings and especially the deaths of thousands is never right nor will it ever be. I will pray for you Yamato. :hmm:


#19    Yamato

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:38 PM

View PostDan, on 07 December 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Dancing and celebrating killings and especially the deaths of thousands is never right nor will it ever be. I will pray for you Yamato. :hmm:
Pray for the Constitution instead; and for our people to start to respect our rule of law.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#20    odas

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:20 PM

View PostDan, on 07 December 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:



Well with conspiracies aside I have not nor would I allow my family or neighbors to dance and celebrate in the streets when Palestinians are attacked. Especially if an attacked killed thousands of them. I will continue to pray for peace.
I would not do it either but what did one expect?
Thousands of Palestinian children were are being killed by Israelis and the US stood always with Israel, no matter what. That is not the policy of freedom and justice that the US is trying to sell.



#21    Dan'O

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:52 PM

I see people wanting some sort of change in the US stance.

Celebrating the deaths of thousands of US people is not a good way to get it.


#22    odas

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:47 PM

Hardly a reason for celebration. Inocent people were killed in 9/11. But innocent people are being killed in Palestine too and I do hear chears, Dan. Quiet, in secrecy. A change of US policy towards Israel and Palestine would change some perspectives. It is like you have a child that you love and see past its negative behaviour but then the time comes when you take him byside and have a serious talk because the child starts pissing of not only the neighbours in the building but also the neighbours down the street. And the neighbours start looking at the parent as the responsible one if the child csn not behave and bullies everyone in the sandlot.


#23    and then

and then

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 08:08 PM

View PostYamato, on 07 December 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

And Americans are killed by Mexicans on both sides of our border for doing nothing wrong at all.   Are we to strangle and colonize Mexico?   Applying their perspective to my own nation's policies climbs the heights of asininity.

This conflict has many beginnings.  And many reasons to fight, regardless of what side you take.  The principle remains, no state has the right to collective punishment.   No state has a right to ethnic cleansing.
That death toll I mentioned fell to nearly zero after the blockade and the fences were put in place.I suspect that within days or a few weeks it would return once those barriers are removed.  Israel is doing what it has to do.  Any government that wouldn't try to protect it's citizens is useless IMO.

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#24    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:59 PM

View Postand then, on 07 December 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

That death toll I mentioned fell to nearly zero after the blockade and the fences were put in place.I suspect that within days or a few weeks it would return once those barriers are removed.  Israel is doing what it has to do.  Any government that wouldn't try to protect it's citizens is useless IMO.

Then build a fence around Israel, not one dissecting another people's land.

Also, the death toll fell when Hamas renounced suicide bombings, not simply due to the blockade.


#25    Stellar

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:35 PM

Quote

That death toll I mentioned fell to nearly zero after the blockade and the fences were put in place.I suspect that within days or a few weeks it would return once those barriers are removed.  Israel is doing what it has to do.  Any government that wouldn't try to protect it's citizens is useless IMO.


The death toll in the US would fall to nearly zero as well if every single person was physically confined to their own homes when not working. Somethings just can not be justified by this line of argument though.

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#26    and then

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:44 PM

View PostStellar, on 07 December 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

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The death toll in the US would fall to nearly zero as well if every single person was physically confined to their own homes when not working. Somethings just can not be justified by this line of argument though.
I'm not really trying to justify their actions - just offering proof that the two situations are tied together.  When arguments are made about Israel abusing the Palestinians and no mention is made of why such measures were necessary I feel the need to offer a little balance.  Not that it changes anyone's mind but acting as though Israel's actions are taken within some kind of vacuum is just inaccurate.

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#27    Stellar

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:50 PM

Quote

When arguments are made about Israel abusing the Palestinians and no mention is made of why such measures were necessary I feel the need to offer a little balance.



That, right there, is the key word that I think everyone disagrees with.

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#28    and then

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:12 AM

View PostStellar, on 07 December 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

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That, right there, is the key word that I think everyone disagrees with.
The implication being that a sovereign country should not stop the random murder of it's citizens IF it can do so?  How would you propose to cause an enemy who is willing to commit suicide in a pizza restaurant to rethink his actions?

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#29    Yamato

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:23 AM

If resistance causes oppression, oppression causes resistance.   It doesn't really matter what little piece of the puzzle someone picks up and decides is the origin of the conflict, or what side one takes.   It's a self-perpetuating cycle of violence when we support either side of this status quo.  So get the axe and chop the whole thing down.  Eliminating the status quo makes a lot more sense than propping up either side of it.   From a practical standpoint, deferring to the sovereign state who is also referred to as our "friend" would make the most sense to get real political change.   That would involve twisting Israel's arm.   Beyond that it's a matter of resistance (terrorism vs. freedom fighting) vs. tyranny (oppression vs. security).

Israel lies to keep its Palestinian policies alive; why can't everyone see that?   If they were so seriously concerned about their security, they wouldn't be insisting on living on top of the very people they whine are making them so insecure.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#30    Yamato

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:36 AM

View Postand then, on 07 December 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

That death toll I mentioned fell to nearly zero after the blockade and the fences were put in place.I suspect that within days or a few weeks it would return once those barriers are removed.  Israel is doing what it has to do.  Any government that wouldn't try to protect it's citizens is useless IMO.
Conflating the siege with Israel's security is ludicrous.   What is it about paper, crayons, stationary, soccer balls, musical instruments, toilet paper, books, candles, clothing, cups, cutlery, crockery, electric appliances, refrigerators, washing machines, glasses, light bulbs, matches, needles, sheets, blankets, shoes, mattresses, spare machine and car parts, and threads that makes Israel so safe?   If banning entire populations of people from these harmless items make other people "safe" those other people are cowards.

If Israel wants to be hated universally around the world as it is, and threatened by the world as it sometimes is, keeping Gaza entombed in misery is a great way to do it.   What kind of a totalitarian statist thinks that government crime like this is equivalent to "security"?   Some people have lost the plot on what this great country of ours was founded for.   How convenient that you even exist as an American today and you can't even realize why.  The Founders would be ashamed of what we're putting up with when our own people are this treasonous to our founding principle.

If Americans put up with this kind of oppression from Mother England, we'd have brought out the guns and locked and loaded a lot sooner than we did.  And oh how Mother England would have deserved it more than she ever actually did. It would've been 1676, not 17.  It's all so conveniently easy to forget, when it's just someone else who lacks liberty, when it's a Muslim or an Arab or a Palestinian or a brown person, and their shoes can't seem to fit our feet.

Edited by Yamato, 08 December 2012 - 02:12 AM.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi





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