Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Military Observing US cities with drones


  • Please log in to reply
145 replies to this topic

#121    Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Closed
  • 8,732 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:27North 80West

Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:08 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 18 December 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

The Constitution prevents the housing of soldiers in people's homes and from illegal military searches, but there in no mention that the military should not be used in civil matters.

Put Posse Comitatus Act of like 1870 or so into your Google Machine, and inform yourself of what it prohibited.

I know you're busy checking dies, but if you make inaccurate claims, you lose some measure of credibility. :-*


#122    DieChecker

DieChecker

    I'm a Rogue Scholar

  • Member
  • 20,995 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, Oregon, USA

  • Hey, I'm not wrong. I'm just not completely right.

Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:42 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 18 December 2012 - 10:08 PM, said:

Put Posse Comitatus Act of like 1870 or so into your Google Machine, and inform yourself of what it prohibited.

I know you're busy checking dies, but if you make inaccurate claims, you lose some measure of credibility. :-*

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Here is what I found....

Quote

Contrary to popular belief, the Act does not prohibit members of the Army from exercising state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order"; it simply requires that any authority to do so must exist with the United States Constitution or Act of Congress.{Federalist 29 (Hamilton, 1788)} In this way, most use of the Army and the Air Force at the direction of the President does not offend the statute, even though it may be problematic for political reasons.

The statute only addresses the US Army and, since 1956, the US Air Force. It does not refer to, and thus does not restrict or apply to, the National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor (in its federal capacity, the National Guard forms part of the Army or Air Force of the United States).

Quote

The President may employ the armed forces... to... restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition... the President determines that... domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order... or [to] suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such... a condition... so hinders the execution of the laws... that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law... or opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

http://en.wikipedia....e_Comitatus_Act

That limits the police powers of the Army and Air Force some, but not in any real way. All it would take is Congressional Legislation, or oversight by the President and we'd have soldier patrolling the streets of EveryTown USA.

Edited by DieChecker, 19 December 2012 - 02:44 AM.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#123    AsteroidX

AsteroidX

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,570 posts
  • Joined:16 Dec 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Free America

  • it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security

Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:49 AM

Quote

The other problem I have is that I am dead set against the US military being used to, in any way shape or form, police the citizenry.  Don't they already waste enough of my money on the stupid wars they fight away from our territory?  Are these wars not enough for them ane they now feel they need to launch a preemptive war on the citizens?  Isn't this what they did in East Germany & Soviet Russia?  Are you really that worried about terrorists?  I'm not


Yes they paid for it on our dime while become excessively rich at the same time. Thats not a bad racket they got going. Al Capone would be impressed.


#124    Yes_Man

Yes_Man

    hi

  • Member
  • 8,867 posts
  • Joined:22 Apr 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portsmouth

Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:20 AM

oh dear that is sad, people not wanting police...what ere you a bloody gang member or something!? don't like leave America!


#125    Stellar

Stellar

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 14,903 posts
  • Joined:27 Apr 2004
  • Gender:Male

  • The objective of war is not to die for your country. It's to make the other son of a b**** die for his!
    -Patton

Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:01 PM

Quote

don't like leave America!


Are you kidding me? They have just as much right to stay in America and shape the country to their image as you do. Since when did the US become so full of people like you? "Dont like it then leave?" Thats not a solution to anything.

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina

#126    OverSword

OverSword

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 15,157 posts
  • Joined:16 Oct 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle WA USA

  • I love chocolate

Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:10 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 14 December 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

It is not a excuse if it is true. Where is the military going to get tens of trillions to spy on hundreds of thousands of people? And why would they spy on those totally undeserving people?

Drones = Military Takeover = Total Conspiricy Theory.
Don't be a dumb-ass.  The military has a black budget in the billions that is spent on things that are not accounted for.


#127    Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Closed
  • 8,732 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:27North 80West

Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:12 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 19 December 2012 - 02:42 AM, said:

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Here is what I found....



http://en.wikipedia....e_Comitatus_Act

That limits the police powers of the Army and Air Force some, but not in any real way. All it would take is Congressional Legislation, or oversight by the President and we'd have soldier patrolling the streets of EveryTown USA.

I suspected that a Wikipedia reference would be your answer. :innocent:   Not that it's a bad thing, but it's so easily edited that everything there seems to have a certain spin to it.

The Act was passed post Civil War, and it was partially in response to voting suppression and others maltreatment of the former slaves.  It prohibited federal troops from being involved in any way with the enforcement of civilian law.  A good sound decision, considering that waging war is not the same as domestic law enforcement.

When it was first weakened, Reagan was President.  The reason was the war on drugs, and even Cap Weinberger objected to PC being watered down.  He thought it was wrong to take combat qualified Cold War Warriors and have them chasing around the ocean looking for boats carrying bales and hidden suitcases.  Made us look like a Third World Country, he said, and he was right.

So while you may be technically correct that the Constitution does not prohibit the military from enforcing civilian law, NEITHER does it authorize such activity.  And legitimate and good statutory law prohibits it.

But we became a third world country anyway, in so many ways.


#128    Yes_Man

Yes_Man

    hi

  • Member
  • 8,867 posts
  • Joined:22 Apr 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portsmouth

Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:40 PM

View PostStellar, on 19 December 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

[/background][/size][/font][/color]

Are you kidding me? They have just as much right to stay in America and shape the country to their image as you do. Since when did the US become so full of people like you? "Dont like it then leave?" Thats not a solution to anything.
Example if you eating somthing you don't like, are you going to eat it again?


#129    Stellar

Stellar

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 14,903 posts
  • Joined:27 Apr 2004
  • Gender:Male

  • The objective of war is not to die for your country. It's to make the other son of a b**** die for his!
    -Patton

Posted 19 December 2012 - 06:38 PM

View PostThe New Richard Nixon, on 19 December 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Example if you eating somthing you don't like, are you going to eat it again?

If I dont like what Im eating, I go make something I like.

Whats the point of having a democracy when "those who dont like it should just leave"?

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina

#130    DieChecker

DieChecker

    I'm a Rogue Scholar

  • Member
  • 20,995 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, Oregon, USA

  • Hey, I'm not wrong. I'm just not completely right.

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:23 PM

View PostOverSword, on 19 December 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

Don't be a dumb-ass.  The military has a black budget in the billions that is spent on things that are not accounted for.
So the government is going to drop all its black ops projects to focus on buying drones to watch Joe Average? I doubt it.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#131    DieChecker

DieChecker

    I'm a Rogue Scholar

  • Member
  • 20,995 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, Oregon, USA

  • Hey, I'm not wrong. I'm just not completely right.

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:25 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 19 December 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

I suspected that a Wikipedia reference would be your answer. :innocent:   Not that it's a bad thing, but it's so easily edited that everything there seems to have a certain spin to it.

The Act was passed post Civil War, and it was partially in response to voting suppression and others maltreatment of the former slaves.  It prohibited federal troops from being involved in any way with the enforcement of civilian law.  A good sound decision, considering that waging war is not the same as domestic law enforcement.

When it was first weakened, Reagan was President.  The reason was the war on drugs, and even Cap Weinberger objected to PC being watered down.  He thought it was wrong to take combat qualified Cold War Warriors and have them chasing around the ocean looking for boats carrying bales and hidden suitcases.  Made us look like a Third World Country, he said, and he was right.

So while you may be technically correct that the Constitution does not prohibit the military from enforcing civilian law, NEITHER does it authorize such activity.  And legitimate and good statutory law prohibits it.

But we became a third world country anyway, in so many ways.
Still giving soldiers police powers is only a Congressional vote away. Maybe only temporarily, but sometimes temporary ends up being permanent...

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#132    Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Closed
  • 8,732 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:27North 80West

Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:24 PM

Anything is just one vote away, I agree.

The reality is that all sorts of things happen WITHOUT a vote in congress.

Such as, unlimited assassinations without trials, all over the world.


#133    Stellar

Stellar

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 14,903 posts
  • Joined:27 Apr 2004
  • Gender:Male

  • The objective of war is not to die for your country. It's to make the other son of a b**** die for his!
    -Patton

Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:05 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 19 December 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

So the government is going to drop all its black ops projects to focus on buying drones to watch Joe Average? I doubt it.

While I dont believe its possible to cheaply track every single person in a country at this point in time, I do believe that that day is coming closer and closer. As such, I think your argument is becoming quickly invalid. With the new face recognition software being developed, you could foreseeably identify every single person on camera and keep a computer log of their locations without it being costly to do so. If there are cameras everywhere, then that would equate to being watched at all times.

Its not as unachievable as you make it sound.

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina

#134    DieChecker

DieChecker

    I'm a Rogue Scholar

  • Member
  • 20,995 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, Oregon, USA

  • Hey, I'm not wrong. I'm just not completely right.

Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:09 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 19 December 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

Anything is just one vote away, I agree.

The reality is that all sorts of things happen WITHOUT a vote in congress.

Such as, unlimited assassinations without trials, all over the world.
Well, you have a point there.....

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#135    DieChecker

DieChecker

    I'm a Rogue Scholar

  • Member
  • 20,995 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, Oregon, USA

  • Hey, I'm not wrong. I'm just not completely right.

Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:12 AM

View PostStellar, on 19 December 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

While I dont believe its possible to cheaply track every single person in a country at this point in time, I do believe that that day is coming closer and closer. As such, I think your argument is becoming quickly invalid. With the new face recognition software being developed, you could foreseeably identify every single person on camera and keep a computer log of their locations without it being costly to do so. If there are cameras everywhere, then that would equate to being watched at all times.

Its not as unachievable as you make it sound.
I can agree with your assessment, but it will likely be mounted cameras that will do most of the spying on people. Even if 99% of urban people are tracked, there would need to be hundreds of thousands of drones to track any appreciable number of people living in rural areas. The expense versus gain would be enormous.

I will agree it is possible, I just think it terribly unlikely.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users