37 replies to this topic

[AquilaChrysaetos]

It's certainly safe to say that there are no known natural explanations for these paranormal phenomena. However that in of itself is entirely unscientific. If you were to go about it scientifically, you would attempt to rationalize and find the truth behind these phenomena. Saying that it's caused by the souls of the deceased is no more than an assumption that connot be proven scientifically. After all, the very essence of science is to explain the unexplained, which cannot be done here. All that is done with paranormal investigating is gathering evidence of the unexplained, which is then explained by the majority of investigators simply through assumptions and belief.

Essentially what I'm getting at is, the only benefit of bringing along a scientist would be to open their minds and make them aware that these phenomena are in fact real, since the overall scientific community currently accepts it all as faked or naturally caused. It is true that scientists just laugh off the subject and never even try to give it any true merit, but even if you open up the minds of scientists, it still would prove nothing since this subject cannot be proven at all scientifically. All that can be proven is that unexplained supernatural events do in fact occur, but will remain unexplained. It simply isn't scientific.

[ArthurDales]

AquilaChrysaetos, on 20 December 2012 - 01:29 AM, said:

It's certainly safe to say that there are no known natural explanations for these paranormal phenomena. However that in of itself is entirely unscientific. If you were to go about it scientifically, you would attempt to rationalize and find the truth behind these phenomena. Saying that it's caused by the souls of the deceased is no more than an assumption that connot be proven scientifically. After all, the very essence of science is to explain the unexplained, which cannot be done here. All that is done with paranormal investigating is gathering evidence of the unexplained, which is then explained by the majority of investigators simply through assumptions and belief.

Essentially what I'm getting at is, the only benefit of bringing along a scientist would be to open their minds and make them aware that these phenomena are in fact real, since the overall scientific community currently accepts it all as faked or naturally caused. It is true that scientists just laugh off the subject and never even try to give it any true merit, but even if you open up the minds of scientists, it still would prove nothing since this subject cannot be proven at all scientifically. All that can be proven is that unexplained supernatural events do in fact occur, but will remain unexplained. It simply isn't scientific.

That's a lot of certainty. How can you say any of that for sure?

[Timonthy]

Orbs are explained naturally and with certainty but not many accept it.

A lot can't accept natural explanations like psychological issues either. (which can explain things being thrown, scratches, seeing things etc.)

Edited by Timonthy, 21 December 2012 - 03:17 AM.

[judyrad]

K really you guys are in the gray area. What we do is not a science, even science is all theory. Hell, we all could be in a giant computer being controlled by dolphins playing a bad prank on us and no one would every really know.
I have an investigator in my group who has never had anything happen to him and he's a scientist. You should have someone who can think outside of the ghost box because some investigators get too set up on "it" being a ghost.

[Esoteric Toad]

I'm an extreme skeptic and I could never understand the thought that if something from 'beyond' is able to affect this reality (or whatever you wish to call it) there should be at the very least a set of simple tests that can be repeated over an extended period of time to show that something is or isn't happening. Leave out the tests that cannot be proven themselves (psychics, ouija or any other sort of divination devices). Even if you cannot repeat a paranormal event doing this would hopefully rule out prosaic causes. I used to work with someone who was into the ghost hunting scene and I recommended he read the skeptics dictionary, not to ridicule but to give him the ideals to eliminate the uncertainty that goes along with the current methods that seem so popular and do explain some things that when left unlearned seem inexplicable. Just my 2cents.

[slaughtr]

For real stop the craziness of always wanting something to be explained. I know plenty of haunted spots with major activity you can come and explain since you want o explain so much and tell people their stupid for saying something is paranormal and can be explained.Everythig in this world has not been explained and you will probably never get the answer's your looking for untill your dead. Man cannot give the answer's to everything so lean back, scientist or not.If I'm in a house and pictures suddenly get snatched from my hands all the way to the next room what am I stupid!? No I think not it had to be paranormal and especially when no windows were open in the house yea whatever be skeptical all day that's your thing.I know all things aren't paranormal but certain things and situations there is no explanation but if you experienced it then your skeptical curiosity will change.

Edited by slaughtr, 18 February 2013 - 02:00 PM.

[DingoLingo]

slaughtr, on 18 February 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

For real stop the craziness of always wanting something to be explained. I know plenty of haunted spots with major activity you can come and explain since you want o explain so much and tell people their stupid for saying something is paranormal and can be explained.Everythig in this world has not been explained and you will probably never get the answer's your looking for untill your dead. Man cannot give the answer's to everything so lean back, scientist or not.If I'm in a house and pictures suddenly get snatched from my hands all the way to the next room what am I stupid!? No I think not it had to be paranormal and especially when no windows were open in the house yea whatever be skeptical all day that's your thing.I know all things aren't paranormal but certain things and situations there is no explanation but if you experienced it then your skeptical curiosity will change.

I would love to take you up on that if I was able to..

have gone to pretty much every major haunted place here in west australia.. and guess what.. nothing.. no evp.. no orbs in photo's (plenty of dust spots and insects though).. no spooky feelings.. nothing.. zip.. nadda..

yet each of these place have apparently had all of it.. if you chuck a believer in a area.. they get something.. get a non believer and you get nothing *shrugs* go figure..

[Frank Merton]

Reading the posts on this thread brings to my mind the memory of when I was a teenager and decided to test my psychokinetic powers, so I carefully leveled a table and than placed some marbles of different types at different locations on it, and sat down and systematically tried to move each one with my mind, using a variety of methods (visualization, future cognition, energy radiation, third eye, and so on).

Of course nothing worked.

Does that mean that the phenomenon doesn't exist?  Anyone can see that this conclusion would be unjustified; all I can really say is that at that time and place that person (me) was either too ignorant or too weak mentally to achieve it.  No experiment can prove something's non-existence with a single, or even millions, of negative results.

However, it did persuade me of one thing -- that I am not a psychic  I have no proof, but sometimes the evidence is persuasive to all but those who would delude themselves.

[Godofcats]

I'm in a paranormal group and we would definitely. Let a scientst come along. If they can find some explanations for things then why not? Ghost hunters arn't all idiots with emf meters like you see on tv. Some of us acually like thinking haha.

[auramyst]

outsider39, on 07 December 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

If you are currently doing paranormal investigations,would you let scientists accompany you on your investigations? If you believe that ghosts exist,surely you would not mind someone in the scientific community going with you on your investigations.Funny I never see any scientists on " Ghost Hunters " or " Ghost Adventures ". Maybe there are no scientists out there who want to get involved in paranormal investigations.Does anyone know of any scientists out there who would like to do a study using the most up to date scientific methods to see if ghosts really can be proved to exist or not?Just curious.

I've been exploring the paranormal for most of my lifetime. Our travels include exploring long forgotten areas, researching history, honoring the deceased, and many, many hours of driving less traveled roads.  I have had paranormal experiences my whole life.  My very earliest memories are of the 'monsters' that would stand in my dark closet opening and closing the sliding door.

It wasn't till I was a teenager that I realized that 'everyone' doesn't experience these things.

It's been a lifetime hobby of mine to explore the unexplained.

Anyway, I would be more than happy to include scientists, skeptics, and anyone interested along to our explorations.  My husband is a diehard skeptic while my best friend is a diehard believer and we welcome all points of view during these journeys.

I live in Southern Illinois, so if anyone is ever in the area, and interested in a ghost exploration, then let me know (PM me anytime)  

[sards]

I'm definitely a sceptic.  I see the reasoning but just cannot fathom how it is real. I can conclude a million coincidences for a single event. I do believe that our minds hold immense power.  And can let us see, feel , touch , taste and hear what we want

[CakeOrDeath]

My thing about paranomal investigators is that they really are no more informed or astute then anyone who suddenly decides they are also paranormal investigators.  Meaning a man holding a hollowed out oatmeal cannister saying it is a very effective ghostometer has just as much credibility as any other hunter holding any other device, because no device has even been proven to detect/identify paranomal activity because as the believers here themselves have said, it's not testable and reapeatable.

So why bother with the equipment?  If you're being honest, you know it's because to the layman it lends abit of "creditbility" to the whole endeavor.

[sards]

There do seem to be basic tools of the trade.
It makes for excellent retail opportunities.

[auramyst]

CakeOrDeath, on 06 March 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

My thing about paranomal investigators is that they really are no more informed or astute then anyone who suddenly decides they are also paranormal investigators.  Meaning a man holding a hollowed out oatmeal cannister saying it is a very effective ghostometer has just as much credibility as any other hunter holding any other device, because no device has even been proven to detect/identify paranomal activity because as the believers here themselves have said, it's not testable and reapeatable.

So why bother with the equipment?  If you're being honest, you know it's because to the layman it lends abit of "creditbility" to the whole endeavor.

I agree.  With one of the latest trends being the ghost hunting craze, everyone and their brother is loading up emf detectors, tape recorders,and  cameras and heading out to the local cemetary to catch 'ghosts'.

Some of these self proclaimed ghost hunters also vandalize property and create hoax videos, pictures, and evp's.

One thing that separates the 'fair weather fans' from the true paranormal investigator is time and personal investment.  Not investment as in money, but true investment as in research, respect for people and property, and due diligence in separating the explainable from the unexplainable.

Like anything else, when something gets popular the freaks come out.  This happened as computers came into prevelance, all the sudden everyone could 'fix' your computer.  We've seen it with Youtube videos, someone posts a cat being cute and all the sudden everyone's got a cute cat.  It's just what happens in the world.

I, for one, am very skeptical of ghost videos, pictures, evp's etc.  I know that sounds funny, because I do believe in the paranormal.  But I don't always believe in people and their 'hidden' motives.  So, I look things over with a grain of salt.

I have several friends who are skeptics (and my husband is a die-hard skeptic), what I tell them is to go out there.  Find a haunted spot, hotel, house, road, or whatever.  Spend some time exploring,  Take some photos.  Do this more than once.  Get out of the house, because unless your house is haunted, nothing is going to happen there.

Nothing is going to be posted on the Internet that will change anyone's mind.  If the skeptic wants to see something paranormal, then they're going to have to search it out themselves.  If a believer wants to find good evidence, then they're going to have to put down the flashy toys and put in some sweat equity.

[CakeOrDeath]

Aura, I liked that response, especially coming from a believer's perspective.