22 replies to this topic

[ExpandMyMind]

If the man's speech wasn't simply just rhetoric designed to rally the supporters present, if he does actually believe what he states about "into the sea", etc, then this could be a massive step back for Hamas.

Possibly he's just tired, after stating for years that Hamas and the Palestinians would settle on the internationally recognised '67 borders only to be completely ignored by Israel and the mirage that is the peace process and all the while the Gaza Strip is still being strangled.

If he does believe this then it is true that Hamas has regressed to their former selves.

Quote

Tens of thousands of people have gathered to attend a rally in the Gaza Strip to mark the 25th anniversary of the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas.
Hamas political leader Khaled Meshaal gave a fiery speech during his first ever visit to the territory.
He said he would never recognise Israel, and insisted Palestinians would never cede any part of their land.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-20649583

[and then]

The issue with Hamas, Hizballah and the sort that is the most disheartening isn't that they use such language but that they are received with such fervor.  I think they are like pols in the West - they may believe their rhetoric but they are only saying what their constituents want to hear.

[ExpandMyMind]

Yet more shoddy M-E reporting from the BBC. The quote I used: "into the sea" (which I remembered wasn't actually stated in the article by the Hamas leader, but by an Al Quds man wearing a mask), has been completely removed from the BBC article (and was nowhere to be found elsewhere on the internet).

[WHO U KIDDIN]

ExpandMyMind, on 08 December 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Yet more shoddy M-E reporting from the BBC. The quote I used: "into the sea" (which I remembered wasn't actually stated in the article by the Hamas leader, but by an Al Quds man wearing a mask), has been completely removed from the BBC article (and was nowhere to be found elsewhere on the internet).

From NY Times:

His voice rising to a shout, Mr. Meshal said: “Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on any inch of the land.” He vowed that all Palestinian refugees and their descendants would one day return to their original homes in what is now Israel.

http://www.nytimes.c......anted=1&_r=0

Meshal restated the view that has always been the cord belief of Hamas. This dangerous rhetoric only damages the PLO efforts at moderation and a two state solution and acceptance by the world community. But perhaps Meshal is truly working for the people he represents.

From UPI:

But even then, some in Israel saw some benefits to be had in trying to continue to give Hamas support: "The thinking on the part of some of the right-wing Israeli establishment was that Hamas and the others, if they gained control, would refuse to have any part of the peace process and would torpedo any agreements put in place," said a U.S. government official who asked not to be named.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/B.../#ixzz2EUM7Io8q

Edited by WHO U KIDDIN, 08 December 2012 - 07:15 PM.

[ExpandMyMind]

Thanks.

[and then]

WHO U KIDDIN, on 08 December 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

From NY Times:

His voice rising to a shout, Mr. Meshal said: “Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on any inch of the land.” He vowed that all Palestinian refugees and their descendants would one day return to their original homes in what is now Israel.

http://www.nytimes.c......anted=1&_r=0

Meshal restated the view that has always been the cord belief of Hamas. This dangerous rhetoric only damages the PLO efforts at moderation and a two state solution and acceptance by the world community. But perhaps Meshal is truly working for the people he represents.

From UPI:

But even then, some in Israel saw some benefits to be had in trying to continue to give Hamas support: "The thinking on the part of some of the right-wing Israeli establishment was that Hamas and the others, if they gained control, would refuse to have any part of the peace process and would torpedo any agreements put in place," said a U.S. government official who asked not to be named.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/B.../#ixzz2EUM7Io8q

I love the way you guys think.  Even when the snake admits being a snake you still blame the one's being bitten.  Priceless.

[ExpandMyMind]

and then, on 08 December 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

I love the way you guys think.  Even when the snake admits being a snake you still blame the one's being bitten.  Priceless.

How do you work that out?

[Erikl]

ExpandMyMind, on 08 December 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

If the man's speech wasn't simply just rhetoric designed to rally the supporters present, if he does actually believe what he states about "into the sea", etc, then this could be a massive step back for Hamas.

Possibly he's just tired, after stating for years that Hamas and the Palestinians would settle on the internationally recognised '67 borders only to be completely ignored by Israel and the mirage that is the peace process and all the while the Gaza Strip is still being strangled.

If he does believe this then it is true that Hamas has regressed to their former selves.



http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-20649583

LMAO!

Regressed?

Man, you are living in a dream world.

We used to believe what the PLO and Hamas said in English too, until we discovered it's the exact opposite of what they're saying to their own people and in what they truly believe.

Oh well, if the Soviets had them, I guess Hamas can have them also.

[docyabut2]

Can`nt help but think these are the real people of Egypt who want freedoms from a dictatorships and religous domimations, looked how many women faces are in the crowds,just like in Iran`s protests

Edited by docyabut2, 08 December 2012 - 08:38 PM.

[ExpandMyMind]

Erikl, on 08 December 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

LMAO!

Regressed?

Man, you are living in a dream world.

We used to believe what the PLO and Hamas said in English too, until we discovered it's the exact opposite of what they're saying to their own people and in what they truly believe.

Oh well, if the Soviets had them, I guess Hamas can have them also.

I based my opinions on Hamas' actions and proclamations. Renouncing suicide bombings in population centres was a massive step forward, and they have repeatedly stated that they would settle on the '67 borders with a just resolution to the refugee crisis, which was all completely ignored by Israel.

[Erikl]

ExpandMyMind, on 08 December 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

I based my opinions on Hamas' actions and proclamations. Renouncing suicide bombings in population centres was a massive step forward, and they have repeatedly stated that they would settle on the '67 borders with a just resolution to the refugee crisis, which was all completely ignored by Israel.

No, what they claimed was that they would settle for a '67 border truce, until they would be capable to destroy Israel in the future. Also, just resolution to the refugee crisis - you are aware what that means in the eyes of the Palestinians, right?

[and then]

ExpandMyMind, on 08 December 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

How do you work that out?

The article assumes Israel is to blame for anything Hamas might ever do just because it (according to this article) supported Hamas against Fatah at one time.

[ExpandMyMind]

Erikl, on 08 December 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

No, what they claimed was that they would settle for a '67 border truce, until they would be capable to destroy Israel in the future. Also, just resolution to the refugee crisis - you are aware what that means in the eyes of the Palestinians, right?

It means different things to different people.

[and then]

ExpandMyMind, on 08 December 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

It means different things to different people.

]Hamas has repeatedly stated this.  They will NEVER have peace - only a truce until they can prevail.  And I have many times mentioned that "just resolution to the refugee crisis" is code for right of return.  Right of return is the end of any State of Jewish character.  With right of return Israel becomes just another  Muslim country in the region - where Jews would live as second class citizens at best.

Edited by and then, 08 December 2012 - 08:58 PM.

[ExpandMyMind]

and then, on 08 December 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

]Hamas has repeatedly stated this.  They will NEVER have peace - only a truce until they can prevail. And I have many times mentioned that "just resolution to the refugee crisis" is code for right of return.  Right of return is the end of any State of Jewish character.  With right of return Israel becomes just another  Muslim country in the region - where Jews would live as second class citizens at best.

So has the Israeli government and many Israeli people but it does not mean there are not factions and elements within both organisations that do want peace.