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What are your thoughts about salvation?


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#1    Karlis

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:28 AM

According to the Bible, God’s salvation is meant for people of all nations. However, there are different ideas as to what salvation is, and different ideas as to how and when salvation is obtained.

What is salvation, and what do you think Paul meant in his letter to the Philippians where he wrote:

Php 2:12  ... work out your own salvation with fear and trembling?




#2    and then

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 04:08 AM

View PostKarlis, on 09 December 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

According to the Bible, God’s salvation is meant for people of all nations. However, there are different ideas as to what salvation is, and different ideas as to how and when salvation is obtained.

What is salvation, and what do you think Paul meant in his letter to the Philippians where he wrote:

Php 2:12  ... work out your own salvation with fear and trembling?

Frankly I am confused by some of the things Paul wrote.  I have believed that salvation is an unmerited gift from God that we receive by accepting the Lord Jesus as our savior.  Admitting our transgressions and being truly repentant for those actions is necessary but beyond that I do not think that any further action or works is required to have salvation.  In fact I think it is stressed that those things can NEVER save us.  We are to bear fruit in His name and this means spreading the good news and showing mercy and kindness so as to do Him credit but this will be rewarded separately at the Bema seat.  Those who have no works will still be saved - though as by fire.... I think those who gain salvation but do not produce will be ashamed in that day.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#3    -M7

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 04:32 AM

My thought: Curious.


#4    Eldorado

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:10 AM

Dying with a clear conscience.


#5    alphafemale

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:44 AM

I believe in following the subject & object when deciding what a scripture means. Paul, is encouraging the followers of christ to keep the faith. He is asking them "" not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.""

followed by an example of Christs behavior...

And finally "Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose...."

so the subject seems to be some grumble among the peoples, and Pauls exortation to be like ( follow the example ) christ has let us.
fear is also respect.--know that your soul was not free, it was bought with a price, paid for you on the Crucifix, one death of perfection, once forever, thus fufilling the law. The law called for death for all of the wages of sin. None of us had a chance beloved--Thanks be to God. Please ask me anything you would like to clarify. I would be honored to tryto answer :).


#6    Cassea

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:53 AM

There are many times I question salvation.  Then I realize it is in the afterlife.   Some of us are due to suffer.  That is all that will come.  Salvation means we are saved. It doesn't mean it is easier.  It also is a humbling to the presence here on earth.  If we are meant to be tortured and destroyed, it will continue to happen because that is our lot.  We should bear it with humility and acceptance.

Understanding Traumatic Brain Injury communication issues.   http://www.asha.org/.../#comm_problems

#7    Karlis

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 01:50 PM

Some insightful responses so far. :tu:
What about salvation itself, though -- what exactly is salvation? One dictionary defines salvation as follows:

1. the act of saving or protecting from harm, risk, loss, destruction, etc.
2. the state of being saved or protected from harm, risk, etc.
3. a source, cause, or means of being saved or protected from harm, risk, etc.
4. Theology . deliverance from the power and penalty of sin; redemption.

In Point 4, above: that theological definition is extremely vague ... it does not tell us what salvation for Mankind consists of.

Are specific answers available as to what salvation is? Or are there only intangible answers? This discussion could become quite interesting when various views are put forward.


#8    Beany

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:04 AM

Theologically, I don't believe in the concept of salvation, mostly because I don't believe in all the other stuff that surrounds it. I am a proponent of self-redemption, however, and in making amends and better choices in the future.


#9    Mr Walker

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:01 AM

To me, salvation is not primarily about an afterlife. It is about being saved here and now on the earth as it is today. Being filled with god's spirit, power,  mind, and physicla presence, I am already saved from all the ills, hurts, angers, fears, jealousies, lusts hates envies etc that i would other wise face as part of being human. God has saved me through his empowerment feom ALL of those things. I am no longer ever; sad depressed angry jealous  envious  afraid  etc.,

That is true physical salvation. I am never lonely, nor can I be, because I am one with god and the universe and all the entities in it. death holds no dominion despite its existence because I know that my consciousness transcends death, at least in a stored condition. But even if that were not so, death is smiply a natural aspect of being born and living.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#10    Bluefinger

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:40 PM

View PostKarlis, on 09 December 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

According to the Bible, Godís salvation is meant for people of all nations. However, there are different ideas as to what salvation is, and different ideas as to how and when salvation is obtained.

What is salvation, and what do you think Paul meant in his letter to the Philippians where he wrote:

Php 2:12  ... work out your own salvation with fear and trembling?


Great question Karlis.

Paul spoke regarding the Philippians obeying the Gospel and suffering by their opponents.  Likely, the opponents were Jews.  Paul, understanding the curse of the Law in Deuteronomy 28:15-68, likely meant to say that the fact that they persecuted the Philppians was a clear sign of their imminent destruction.

In this case, salvation was the preservation of a people and their city as well as a justification before God to receive the blessings laid out in the  Law in Deuteronomy 28:1-14.  I recommend reading Deuteronomy 28.

Paul even stated in Galatians 3:13 that Jesus took the curse of the Law on Himself, even being cursed for hanging from a tree (crucifixion.)  So, those who rejected Jesus bore the curse of the Law on themselves.  One needs only to read Deuteronomy 27:15-68 and Jewish history after Jerusalem was destroyed to know that the curse of the Law is real and happened to the Jews.
Our grandparents even witnesses the curse, as 6 million Jews were murdered by the Nazis in only a matter of a few years.

Meanwhile, those who refused to return to Judaism but dwelled anong the Gentiles under a new name in Jesus actually enjoyed a rather great amount of success and prosperity, proving Deuteronomy 28:1-14.  The penalty for returning back to Judaism would have been to put one's self back under the curse of the Law back then.

In Josephus' The Wars of the Jews, he explained that, before and adter Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans, Jews everywhere in the Roman Empire were being persecuted and killed simply because of their relation to the rebels in Judea.  Many atrocities, far too much to type on an iphone, happened to the Jews and by the Jews, fulfilling what Jesus said about the Jews and Jerusalem:

"For then there will be  great tribulation,  such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.  And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for  the sake of the elect those days will be cut short." (Matthew 24:21, 22 ESV)

So, while I do not deny the salvation of our souls through Jesus' work on the cross, I also believe that His teachings drew a defining line between Christian and Jew back then, saving the lives and futures of His disciples from destruction by the Roman Empire.

It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well.     - Descartes

#11    White Crane Feather

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 05:22 PM

I see it as a freeing of the mind and material constraints. Free to live without the duality and contrasts. Necessary for physical existence. I tend to think we will all be saved evenchually, just some of us will take longer.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#12    Ryu

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:04 AM

Quite frankly I never felt I needed to be saved. I mean, from what, exactly? Being alive? Being a human? Having emotions? Making mistakes or not "believing" on command?

We all suffer from time to time be it from our own hands (deliberately or unknowingly) or at the hands of others but we also feel happiness as well (for the same reasons as the afore mentioned).

I do not need to seek redemption or forgiveness for anything.
Humanity in general seems to love this idea of being constantly judged and being punished for the tiniest of deviations so it is not any surprise that this theme repeats itself in its various fantasies and mythologies.


#13    Beany

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:31 AM

View PostRyu, on 11 December 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

Quite frankly I never felt I needed to be saved. I mean, from what, exactly? Being alive? Being a human? Having emotions? Making mistakes or not "believing" on command?

We all suffer from time to time be it from our own hands (deliberately or unknowingly) or at the hands of others but we also feel happiness as well (for the same reasons as the afore mentioned).

I do not need to seek redemption or forgiveness for anything.
Humanity in general seems to love this idea of being constantly judged and being punished for the tiniest of deviations so it is not any surprise that this theme repeats itself in its various fantasies and mythologies.

I'm with you, I've never felt I needed to be saved by anyone other than myself. And I'm pretty sure I can save myself if I apply all the experience, knowledge, ethics, and discipline I've acquired, and I'm happy to take on this responsibility. I believe I stand or fall based on my own choices, and any blame or credit belongs to me.


#14    gnostic-deity

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:32 AM

View PostRyu, on 11 December 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

Quite frankly I never felt I needed to be saved. I mean, from what, exactly? Being alive? Being a human? Having emotions? Making mistakes or not "believing" on command?

We all suffer from time to time be it from our own hands (deliberately or unknowingly) or at the hands of others but we also feel happiness as well (for the same reasons as the afore mentioned).

I do not need to seek redemption or forgiveness for anything.
Humanity in general seems to love this idea of being constantly judged and being punished for the tiniest of deviations so it is not any surprise that this theme repeats itself in its various fantasies and mythologies.

my thoughts exactly

oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive

#15    Artaxerxes

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:36 AM

We don't need to be saved because we were never lost.

The soul's lessons are embedded in our everyday lives and it is holistically imprinted with what it needs to learn regardless of who we are, or where we live, or what we believe.  

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