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Question on construction of Pyramids of Giza


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#61    Dontlisten2me

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 06:17 AM

All of them?

Well you can't build a Pyramid like that with a bunch of uneven stones.

Edited by kampz, 11 December 2012 - 06:19 AM.


#62    cormac mac airt

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 06:32 AM

View Postkampz, on 11 December 2012 - 06:17 AM, said:

All of them?

Well you can't build a Pyramid like that with a bunch of uneven stones.

With some small exception, the blocks one sees on the pyramids now are NOT casing stones, which again were used in the construction of much of Cairo. The actual casing stones were made specifically to fit the levels they were on.

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#63    Dontlisten2me

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:01 AM

True I think.

Edited by kampz, 11 December 2012 - 07:02 AM.


#64    DieChecker

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:06 AM

View Postkampz, on 11 December 2012 - 06:17 AM, said:

All of them?

Well you can't build a Pyramid like that with a bunch of uneven stones.

Look at this pic of the Great Pyramid. These blocks are not uniform in size, or arrangement. Look how many are fractured. The plaster in between the stones shows that these fractured and angle sided blocks are not recent, or accidental. They put them in that way.

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#65    Dontlisten2me

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:05 AM

Humans and weathering deformed the stones we can see on the very outside. I agree not all the blocks were perfect on the outside, but what about the inside?

They're better pictures close up of how precise they were placed next to each other and some of the blocks were pretty darn close to being perfect.

The blocks used to build the Pyramids on the outside were mostly around the same size. In the inside they're a lot bigger.

The original idea was to probably keep replacing casing stones that "broke"

Edited by kampz, 11 December 2012 - 08:32 AM.


#66    Djedi

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:24 AM

View Postcladking, on 10 December 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

These are pyramids that were hardly begun.

The odds of an individual dying increases with age so one would expect to see pyramids
nearly complete rather than hardly begun if they stopped building when someone died.  

"Hardly begun" or not these are valid examples, just because you "feel" they should be nearer to completion doesn't mean they don't count.
Besides we have two other examples that were nearer to completion, Djedefre's as kmt_sesh already mentioned and Khaba's.
The remains of Djedefre's pyramid we see today don't represent the state it was in when work ceased, it was used as a quarry in Roman times and a nearby Coptic monastery was built with blocks of this pyramid, the pyramid was probably near to completion.

Besides we have also examples where the pyramid was finished but other parts of the funerary complex weren't.
All this points out that they stopped working when the king died (exept for a few rush jobs in mud-brick like we see in Menkaure's complex).
Many of the granite casing blocks of Menkaure's pyramid weren't polished, so it wasn't completely finished, meaning one more for te list.

So your original statement: "If it were necessary to complete it before the king died then there should be some partially finished great pyramids. There
aren't any
so either they could probably either finish it after he died or his death wasn't an issue for some other reason." is completely untrue since we have at least 4 examples, 5 if we include Menkaure's...


#67    cladking

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:38 PM

View PostDjedi, on 11 December 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

"Hardly begun" or not these are valid examples, just because you "feel" they should be nearer to completion doesn't mean they don't count.
Besides we have two other examples that were nearer to completion, Djedefre's as kmt_sesh already mentioned and Khaba's.
The remains of Djedefre's pyramid we see today don't represent the state it was in when work ceased, it was used as a quarry in Roman times and a nearby Coptic monastery was built with blocks of this pyramid, the pyramid was probably near to completion.

Besides we have also examples where the pyramid was finished but other parts of the funerary complex weren't.
All this points out that they stopped working when the king died (exept for a few rush jobs in mud-brick like we see in Menkaure's complex).
Many of the granite casing blocks of Menkaure's pyramid weren't polished, so it wasn't completely finished, meaning one more for te list.

So your original statement: "If it were necessary to complete it before the king died then there should be some partially finished great pyramids. There
aren't any
so either they could probably either finish it after he died or his death wasn't an issue for some other reason." is completely untrue since we have at least 4 examples, 5 if we include Menkaure's...

I "feel" logic and facts make a difference.  I feel logic is the best way to understand
and learn about the world.

You could argue that the N is so small that it's mere coincidence that no king died.

The facts stand.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#68    Djedi

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 06:23 PM

View Postcladking, on 11 December 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

I "feel" logic and facts make a difference.  I feel logic is the best way to understand
and learn about the world.

You could argue that the N is so small that it's mere coincidence that no king died.

The facts stand.

No idea what you mean by all that but the FACT that we have (at least) FOUR partially finished pyramid stands.
No comments on Djedefre's and Khaba's? Maybe you still have to invent an excuse for not considering these two partially finished "great pyramids"?
Let logic and facts make a difference for once Cladking and admit you were wrong.


#69    cladking

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:22 PM

View PostDjedi, on 11 December 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

No idea what you mean by all that but the FACT that we have (at least) FOUR partially finished pyramid stands.
No comments on Djedefre's and Khaba's? Maybe you still have to invent an excuse for not considering these two partially finished "great pyramids"?
Let logic and facts make a difference for once Cladking and admit you were wrong.

The odds that someone will die is higher with each year of life after infancy.

Logically if they built the pyramids over a long span of time for a particular person and stopped
if he died and did this repeatedly then it should follow that some great pyramids would be left in
a nearly completed state.

This is not what we actually see so you can say the evidence is not consistent with the theory.
This alone can't prove the theory wrong in this case but it still weighs against it.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#70    DieChecker

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:04 PM

View Postkampz, on 11 December 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Humans and weathering deformed the stones we can see on the very outside. I agree not all the blocks were perfect on the outside, but what about the inside?
The outside layers had to be fairly even to support the cladding stones, but we can see that they are far from uniform and far from cut with square corners.

On the inside there is even less motivation to have square stones. They simply piled up roughly cubical boulders and applied lots of plaster. As much as 10% of the mass of the Great Pyramid is plaster.

The only place they Needed to be smoothly surfaced and flat sided was for the various halls and chambers.

Quote

They're better pictures close up of how precise they were placed next to each other and some of the blocks were pretty darn close to being perfect.
Sure, the occational spot shows very good fitting of the stones, but overall 99% of the pyramid is very loosely put together and shows horrendous bad masonry efforts. These people were in a Hurry after all. They needed to place a stone basically every couple minutes, right. No time for chiseling exact corners and flat sides.

Quote

The blocks used to build the Pyramids on the outside were mostly around the same size. In the inside they're a lot bigger.
Possibly, but unlikely. Most of the blocks are limestone quarried locally, and the block sizes were determined by the layering of the limestone. So the thickness of each stone was already determned by the thickness of the layer it came out of. Very much like taking pieces out of a slice of bread, rather then a loaf of bread. So, any giant limestone blocks would have had to come from somewhere else, and there is no evidence or records of anything like that. The local quarries also show that more then enough stone was taken out to build all the local pyramids and mastabas.

Edited by DieChecker, 11 December 2012 - 08:04 PM.

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#71    Dontlisten2me

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 10:50 PM

The inside has the best work.

The Pyramids were put together pretty well. They just had to keep replacing stones over time to keep it perfect. Wait... How could you fix something at the top if the surface of the Pyramids are smooth? Were they smooth? And you mentioned time. Time is the most important part. What does everyone say if they added a 0 to 10 or 20 years? That would screw a lot of other evidence right?

Edited by kampz, 11 December 2012 - 10:52 PM.


#72    Dontlisten2me

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:00 AM

Add a zero at the end so 100 to 200 years for construction. Does the evidence already found disagree totally? What about the possibility of "manifesting or "creating" new fake but real evidence to say otherwise or to help persuade you into thinking different?


#73    DieChecker

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:22 AM

View Postkampz, on 12 December 2012 - 01:00 AM, said:

Add a zero at the end so 100 to 200 years for construction. Does the evidence already found disagree totally? What about the possibility of "manifesting or "creating" new fake but real evidence to say otherwise or to help persuade you into thinking different?
No the evidence does not disagree. It is simply that the egypt experts know who the pyramid was being built for (There is lots of evidence for this) and they know when that pharoah was living (Roughly anyway) and they know the same about all the pyramids to a greater or lesser extent. Thus, they can guess (based on tons of evidence and very logical deductions) that the Great Pyramid was built over roughly 30 years. The degree of confidence is very high. Very few educated and/or knowledgable people dispute this. It is only a guess however, because we don't have time machines.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#74    DieChecker

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:29 AM

View Postkampz, on 11 December 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

The inside has the best work.
That is unproven, and from various non-invasive tests, probably not true. I think it was sonic testing that showed that the pyramd probably is actually filled with large voids that are probably filled with rubble and/or sand.

Quote

The Pyramids were put together pretty well. They just had to keep replacing stones over time to keep it perfect. Wait... How could you fix something at the top if the surface of the Pyramids are smooth? Were they smooth? And you mentioned time. Time is the most important part. What does everyone say if they added a 0 to 10 or 20 years? That would screw a lot of other evidence right?
I doubt much damage happened in the living memory of the pharoahs that built them. There was little rain and sand storms don't really tear into them that much. There was no flooding on this high plateau. If there was flooding, then all the Egyptians would have been drown and washed away anyway.

We have temples from the same period that have little damage. Most of the damages were done by follow on civilizations, like the arabs, and follow on dynastys that wanted to remove evidence of former pharoahs. The only structures, and pyramids, that really suffered over the millenia were those built of mud brick. Those built of stone lasted very well.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#75    Dontlisten2me

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 06:22 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 12 December 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

No the evidence does not disagree. It is simply that the egypt experts know who the pyramid was being built for (There is lots of evidence for this) and they know when that pharoah was living (Roughly anyway) and they know the same about all the pyramids to a greater or lesser extent. Thus, they can guess (based on tons of evidence and very logical deductions) that the Great Pyramid was built over roughly 30 years. The degree of confidence is very high. Very few educated and/or knowledgable people dispute this. It is only a guess however, because we don't have time machines.

Who cares about there King because he's dead. Screw his sons I say. What made him so special? He's not lasting 100+ years. Life expectancy was short. Rebel easy fits there and it would be easy to rebel. There's lots of evidence for the Great Pyramids being built in around the time they say? Why is it being explained different a lot? I guess that's when they made it and there's more evidence for it being completed in 30 years? Then I see myself explaining this way still even if bogus real evidence is made up.

Maybe there King died during the construction and they decided to put him in it? Maybe it wasn't originally mean't for him. I would think the King and his men were the guys who gathered all the civilians to help these "Gods" he met. I'm sure whoever saw the "Gods" decided to follow them too. Maybe that's why the King has a name on it. The King you would think would be compared to everyday people mostly because of the "Gods" they met. Maybe that's why the King got put in it because he gained much respect for being the leader in the time of these "Gods".

If it's for Khufu or whoever I bet that King would go around explaining something along the lines like I did. Now were at 30+ years for construction. Not enough time for it. If it took 30+ years to make a perfect and smooth Great Pyramid then there should be 100 other Great Pyramids if it's that easy.

At least the inside looks the nicest nowadays. I probably wouldn't be able to say what looks nicer if I saw it the day it was 100% complete.

The Red Pyramid took approximately 17 years to complete according to Rainer Stadelmann and approximately 10 years and 7 months according to John Romer. Now I need to know how many guys. The Red Pyramid is a pyramid that resembles the Pyramids of Giza. I got this information on Wiki.

Edited by kampz, 12 December 2012 - 06:51 AM.





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