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Use of Taser is not unconstitutional


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#16    OverSword

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:37 PM

Yeah Sakari, It's nice that they have a piece of paper saying they can abuse thier authority if they feel like it.  I bet you anything if this woman had been young and hot they would have taken a more hands on approach.


#17    Sakari

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:42 PM

View PostOverSword, on 13 December 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

Yeah Sakari, It's nice that they have a piece of paper saying they can abuse thier authority if they feel like it.  I bet you anything if this woman had been young and hot they would have taken a more hands on approach.


As I said, I have no sympathy at all for people who break the law. There are consequences, and we all know it.( even my son who spent 6 years in Prison )

As a matter of fact, if we ( the USA ) were more strict with breaking laws, maybe our crime would not be so high.



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Edited by Sakari, 13 December 2012 - 04:43 PM.

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#18    OverSword

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:41 PM

View PostSakari, on 13 December 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

As I said, I have no sympathy at all for people who break the law. There are consequences, and we all know it.( even my son who spent 6 years in Prison )

As a matter of fact, if we ( the USA ) were more strict with breaking laws, maybe our crime would not be so high.



Posted Image
I believe you can look at countries with strict laws and see it doesn't work that way.  The death penalty does not stop people from being murdered.  This womans crime was drunk in public.  does corporal punishment seem just for that?  You don't jump when they say jump so they taze you?


#19    aztek

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 07:08 PM

Taser used on woman who tried to buy extra iPhones


http://news.yahoo.co...7--finance.html

cops are too taser happy

Edited by aztek, 13 December 2012 - 07:09 PM.

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#20    supervike

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 09:05 PM

Nobody is saying that cops don't have a tough job.  They have to work very hard with and quite often with the dregs of our society.  I have a ton of respect for them, and have several that are friends of mine.

They are given a huge responsiblity but it's not too much to ask them to behave professionally.  Inflicting pain to someone because they don't respond quickly enough is not professional, it's thuggery.

Now, if the perp is in the situation to cause actual harm, then all gloves are off, cops have every right to protect themselves.   But I don't think anyone here is talking about those situations.


#21    ninjadude

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:00 PM

View PostSakari, on 13 December 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

As I said, I have no sympathy at all for people who break the law.

Alledgedly. Police are not judges. they do not decide who broke the law. Arrest does not equal guilt.

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#22    Sakari

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:48 PM

View PostOverSword, on 13 December 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

I believe you can look at countries with strict laws and see it doesn't work that way.  The death penalty does not stop people from being murdered.  This womans crime was drunk in public.  does corporal punishment seem just for that?  You don't jump when they say jump so they taze you?


Obviously we do not agree, and that is fine.

Police have policies they HAVE to follow.

Tazering someone instead of taking them down physically is a lot safer ( for all parties ), and can also avoid that " police brutality " issue that some like to claim when someone is taken down.

If you want to get drunk and stupid in public, be prepared for the consequences.

Break the law, be prepared for the consequences.

If you do both, and are or are not prepared for the consequences, does not matter, you are a idiot in my eyes.



Laws need to be more strict, especially laws regarding drunk in public, and drunk driving.The statistics alone can verify that.

If tazering people made them stop ( obviously that is not why people are tazered, the reasons have been shown all ready ) then tazer away. Unfortunatly, that will not work, and I saw no where where I said corporal punishment either. I know one thing, our justice system is f'd up bad, and I can prove that......Meaning, punishment is not severe enough for a lot of crimes.

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#23    Sakari

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:51 PM

View Postsupervike, on 13 December 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

Nobody is saying that cops don't have a tough job.  They have to work very hard with and quite often with the dregs of our society.  I have a ton of respect for them, and have several that are friends of mine.

They are given a huge responsiblity but it's not too much to ask them to behave professionally.  Inflicting pain to someone because they don't respond quickly enough is not professional, it's thuggery.

Now, if the perp is in the situation to cause actual harm, then all gloves are off, cops have every right to protect themselves.   But I don't think anyone here is talking about those situations.



If they were following their policy, they were doing their jobs. Until I see a verdict on this, I can not say if they were or were not.I can also say, if she had stayed sober, or controlled her drinking ( how far past drunk does someone need to get ) none of us would be having this conversation.



Responsibility.

Not many have that anymore.

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#24    Sakari

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:53 PM

Did everyone miss this part?


Quote

Because Williams spat at Taylor, he was within his rights to use the taser, as he was attempting to “control her behavior,” rather than purposefully injure her, argues the attorney.





Now, on a side note.....This is f'd up.

Quote

Recently, two police officers in Texas tasered a man who was having a seizure, causing the 50-year-old to suffer a heart attack and permanent brain damage. The cops were so ill equipped to deal with the situation, that they broke out tasers and shocked a man who was already convulsing on the ground.


Edited by Sakari, 13 December 2012 - 10:55 PM.

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#25    ninjadude

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:57 PM

View PostSakari, on 13 December 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

Tazering someone instead of taking them down physically is a lot safer ( for all parties ),

How is it "safer" if one party is dead or permanently debilitated?

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#26    Sakari

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:01 PM

View Postninjadude, on 13 December 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

How is it "safer" if one party is dead or permanently debilitated?


Did I miss something?...Did she die or become permanently disabled?




And, did you see this?




Quote

Because Williams spat at Taylor, he was within his rights to use the taser, as he was attempting to “control her behavior,” rather than purposefully injure her, argues the attorney.



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#27    Sakari

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:05 PM

View Postninjadude, on 13 December 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

How is it "safer" if one party is dead or permanently debilitated?




And yes, they are safer.......I love Scientific data / studies :clap:   :tu:


Using a Taser to subdue a violent suspect is safer than police batons and fists. That is the surprising conclusion of a study of incidents in which US police used force to tackle a person who was resisting arrest.
Several suspects have died in the US after being tasered, and human rights groups have spoken out against the weapons, also called conductive electrical devices (CEDs). But John MacDonald of the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia and colleagues have found they seem to result in fewer injuries than more conventional methods such as batons.
The team examined over 24,000 cases where police had used force, including almost 5500 incidents involving a Taser. After controlling for factors such as the amount of resistance shown by the suspect, they found that Taser use reduced the overall risk of injury by 65 per cent.


http://www.newscient...-and-fists.html






Hard to argue facts.

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#28    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:44 AM

View Postsupervike, on 13 December 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

Fair point.
However, replace the 'Taser use' with a punch in the nose and imagine the same situations we've seen.  Imagine the backlash and calls for reform we'd see.
a punch to the face may actually be more lethal then a taser.
We in Oz have seen a litany of "he was hit once in the face, fell to the ground and died" on the news these past few years.


#29    Yamato

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:58 AM

View Postsupervike, on 12 December 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

Cops are far too Taser ready.  I'm not sure how inflicting that much pain on someone is justifiable for some of the stuff we see them use it on.
And that's where it becomes unconstitutional.  Cops deliberately escalating situations where people are exercising their rights, like the 1st, 4th, and 5th amendments.

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#30    Odin11

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:29 AM

View Postaztek, on 13 December 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

Taser used on woman who tried to buy extra iPhones


http://news.yahoo.co...7--finance.html

cops are too taser happy

I would have bet a million bucks that the link would have a video that showed nothing before the woman was tased, like almost every other video of supposed police violence (I was right). Why is that, do you think? It’s because it looks better for the news and worst for the police.
The woman was not tased because she tried to buy extra iphones, she was tased because she would not leave the store, would not leave after police told her to, and because she resisted arrest. For the store to call the police, she was not just standing there doing nothing, she was most likely causing a scene.

And I don’t believe for a second that she did not understand what the store was asking. If you watch the video she has a 12 year old daughter that speaks perfect English, which means that she has been around English speaking people for years. And she had no trouble before buying the other iphones.

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