81 replies to this topic

[Talon]

Spain drops US troops from parade
US troops will not be invited to take part this year's Spanish National Day parade, the government has said.
French troops have been invited instead, as part of celebrations to mark 60 years since of the liberation of Paris from Nazi occupation.

The move does not constitute a change in relations with the US, Defence Minister Jose Bono said.

But relations between the two countries have been strained since Spain pulled its troops out of Iraq.

'Inappropriate presence'

"This is in no way an insult or a sign of contempt towards the United States," Mr Bono told Cadena Cope radio.

However, he added that Spain was "no longer subordinated" and "kneeling" before other countries.

US marines have participated in the 12 October military parade by invitation of the Spanish government since 2001, in a mark of respect for the victims of the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington.

Spain's new socialist government has steered away from its predecessors' pro-US policies.

At last year's parade, Prime Minister Rodriguez Zapatero - the leader of the opposition at the time - remained seated as the US flag went past, believing its presence was inappropriate, El Mundo reported.

France was a vocal opponent of the war.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/worl...ope/3719572.stm

[Homer]

I respect Spain’s decision, and understand about 'inappropriate presence', but what bothers me is when Defence Minister Jose Bono said “Spain was no longer ‘subordinated’ and ‘kneeling’ before other countries.”
Does this imply that Spain considered itself subordinated and kneeling before other countries prior to its decision to not invite U.S. troops

[Michelle]

This is in no way an insult or a sign of contempt towards the United States?

It clearly sounds like it IS to me

[Celumnaz]

Sounds like it to me too.  And since that war isn't fresh on my memory, I've got to go look up who liberated Paris again, and what Normandy was all about again and what Spanish National Day is and why I read it as a celebration of Paris' liberation...

[Babs]

...no longer 'subordinated' and 'kneeling' before other countries.

...now they are subordinated and kneeling before Al Qaeda.

[Fluffybunny]

Eh, what are you going to do...

I think this is all just fallout from Iraq and the war on terror; Spain did not like how things turned out with the lack of WMD and so on. Shortly afterwards the train bombing happened and from what I have read there is some harsh feelings towards the US as if we pulled Spain into the war and that just escalated the terrorism problem they had to deal with...

I don't know this to be the case, I am just guessing from what I have read.

They don't want us in a parade, big deal. I personally don't have time for a parade anyway...

[Talon]

Sounds like it to me too. And since that war isn't fresh on my memory, I've got to go look up who liberated Paris again, and what Normandy was all about again and what Spanish National Day is and why I read it as a celebration of Paris' liberation...

If I recall, Spanish National Day has nothing to do with Normandy or the US during WW2. Its celebrating the re-unification of Spain. Nothing to do with the US. Plus, Spain was neutral during WW2, even though Franco was a fascist power.

The French are present due to this being the 60 years since the liberation of their Capital to continue good relations with France.

The US troops have only been present for the last 3 years. Its hardly an insult or a sign of contempt if they droped a 3 year tradition.

Shortly afterwards the train bombing happened and from what I have read there is some harsh feelings towards the US as if we pulled Spain into the war and that just escalated the terrorism problem they had to deal with...

Of course they have Eta bombing them all the time without the Islamics, plus most of the Spannish didn't even want to go to Iraq, it wasn't America who pulled them in in their eyes, but rather their Pro-American leader. Madrid is going to try an distance themselves from Bush for as long as possible to keep the people happy.

[Babs]

Madrid is going to try to distance themselves from Bush as long as they can to keep the people happy.

....yeah, right.

[Talon]

You have another opinion?

[AztecInca]

I wonder what relations between australia and america will be like if mark latham wins the election and brings back all our troops from Iraq. It would be very interesting indeed. He is not nearly as pro-american as john howard and his ministers. Although he has put a few pro-americans in top jobs like kim beazely as shadow defence minister!

I dont see this as in insult since it is only a three year tradition and they haven`t excatly had good experiences with terrorism which they must partially blame the US for because of the war on terror which their former leader dragged them into!

[Celumnaz]

If I recall, Spanish National Day has nothing to do with Normandy or the US during WW2. Its celebrating the re-unification of Spain. Nothing to do with the US. Plus, Spain was neutral during WW2, even though Franco was a fascist power.

The French are present due to this being the 60 years since the liberation of their Capital to continue good relations with France.

Thanks for the brush up.  While looking that stuff up I came across this article, and while I hate to site the bbc (my opinion is it's another CBS, AP, etc...) I thought it was a pretty cool article.  I think it's the original article on Paris' liberation in 1944?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/s...000/3520894.stm

(came in this morning and this was on one of my screens, guess I forgot to hit send yesterday)

[Babs]

Very fascinating Celumnaz. Yes, I think it has to do with terrorism as I said before. They don't want us there because it might offend the terrorists and bring  more trouble down on their heads. But isn't that a selfish way to view things?I thought we were supposed to all pull together against terrorism?

[Lottie]

Yes, I think it has to do with terrorism as I said before. They don't want us there because it might offend the terrorists and bring more trouble down on their heads. But isn't that a selfish way to view things?

No not at all. Spain are putting their own country first, much like the US do and any other country.
The US have a habit of being 'Selfish' and keeping the country seperate to the rest of the world.

bring more trouble down on their heads

Would you want unnecessary trouble?

Edited by Lottie, 07 October 2004 - 02:29 PM.

[Babs]

The U.S. has to help everybody all the time and everyone holds us to different standards. Yes, that is very selfish.

Lottie...You say the U.S. is insular, there's a reason for that, there's a reason for this expression. The U.S. doesn't have neighbors on all sides as europe does; we don't have to cooperate as you do (with other nations) on a daily basis or have this cooperative nature. You, on the other hand, 'must' do that to survive. It is a way of life or 'second nature' to you, I think. We virtually live alone or feel that we do, except for Canada_ way up there   and Mexico_ way down there.   Do you see what I am saying? Location is very important in how you manifest in the world. Location colors our national personality as location colors every country's national character. It would be a good thing if people would take this into consideration and be more tolerant. Many times you can't fault nations or peoples for things that are out of their control.

As far as unnecessary trouble, it is only a matter of time before Spain has to get their feet wet. Yes, a very selfish outlook, indeed. When Spain needs help, what should we say...."Sorry, you are on your own... remember?"

Edited by Babs, 07 October 2004 - 03:06 PM.

[Seraphina]

It would be a good thing if people would take this into consideration and be more tolerant.

Well why don't you take into account that Spain decided to invite one of its neighbours along instead of the US.."way over there " and be more tollerant?