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How do we stop it.


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#1    White Crane Feather

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:06 AM

I want to open a discussion about the violence against children at school in America. it is promted with recent events but it's not just one event it's many.

I propose

1) We identify autistic spectrum, sensitive, and vulnerable kids early on and give them incredible support against bullying and self esteem issues.

2) we stop sensationalizing these incidents. No media coverage, no talk shows, movies, or books. The name of the perpetrator should never be mentioned, and his life should never be scrutinized.

3) We need to end the production of "games" that glorify violence. Grand theft auto...... Really?. The majority of these crimes are committed by young people between the ages of 16--26, most of them were heavy into video games. I'm not against gameing totally, but these games are incredibly rediculouse and fuel violant fantasies while isolating the child from interaction with others. Not to mention there are child psychologists and formulas designed to addict young people.

4) I deplore gun control. I feel everyone should have a right to own own them. But, I would not mind makeing gun ownership a long and tedious process. Im workIng on my concealed weapons permit, and after Friday my wife will be joining me. There is a lengthy course and several interviews. I will never vote for anything limiting citizens to own guns, but I would vote for an elevated level of awareness and training. It should be an honer and hard won prize to be an owner of dangerous weapons. Sure criminals will just get them illegally. I understand that. It would be up to the citizen to take the process seriously and do it if they take self defense with weapons seriously.

5) It should be a felony if Somone who has not gone through the above sugestion has access to your weapons and comits a crime.

just some suggestions. My number 2 suggestion is the most important one. The media should not be able to sensationalize this. I don't know how to do that without censorship which is a slippery slope, but the media could come together and all agree, law enforcement could take vows of silence and teach survivors why they must be quite..... I don't know. But make no mistake, these incidents have become a sick fad.

What do you think?

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#2    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:13 AM

3) I have read articles that suggest the oppoaite, that violent games give people who have violent tendancies a release that might actually in other circumstances en up very messily.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#3    White Crane Feather

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:24 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 16 December 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

3) I have read articles that suggest the oppoaite, that violent games give people who have violent tendancies a release that might actually in other circumstances en up very messily.
That's possible, but that has to be weighed against desentizing people to it, and possibly creating people to have violent tendencies. Studies like that are higly suspect. Where did they find people with violent tendencies? Obviously if they are violent , they are probably not allowed to act it out by some kind of restraint, so yes... The game is going to be a release. It's hard to tell without knowing the details. But I have got to say, I deplore allowing impressionable teenagers to play that crap.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#4    White Crane Feather

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:33 AM

I see teenagers every single day, and this is purely a personal observation, but I can tell the ones lost in their games. It's in their eyes. It's a distant look. It looks a hell of a lot like pictures of some of these killers. I can't put my finger on it, but it's not just about the violence of the game. Sometimes they throw fits when they loose. Normal kids turn into something different.

I have played some of these games back in the day. Have you ever listened to a group of twelve year olds and how they behave over the Internet. It's nuts.

Even some of my students end up in little huttles over minecraft and can't wait to get home. I just took a group of preteens out for a party and at least 4 of them could not wait to get home to play call of duty to shoot each other.

My kids will never own that crap... Ever!!!

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#5    QuiteContrary

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 05:09 AM

I am all for gun control, to a degree.
But I also know there are deeper issues at hand.
Killing and abusing and harming others doesn't begin and end with guns. Or begin and end in the United States.


#6    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 05:17 AM

I agree with most of your points, but in my opinion, the one about games is ridiculous. Ban violent tv shows and movies while you're at it. Go ahead an ban books with violence as well. Should get rid of those nature documents where one animal kills another, too. Don't want anyone exposed to that kind of violence.

Why should I be punished for somebody else's inability to separate fantasy and reality?
How about make metal health services more available to those that need them? Identify those most at risk and put programs and such in place to prevent such acts of violence.

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#7    Kazahel

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 05:37 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 16 December 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

1) We identify autistic spectrum, sensitive, and vulnerable kids early on and give them incredible support against bullying and self esteem issues.

Support against bullying and self esteem issues should be a natural thing for everyone. I think if we single out people and give 'extra' support I think that could cause further separation. Not everyone is the same and I'm glad its that way. Otherwise it almost ends up being anyone who is introverted is not 'normal' and thus should be taught(supported)to be extroverted.

View PostSeeker79, on 16 December 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

2) we stop sensationalizing these incidents. No media coverage, no talk shows, movies, or books. The name of the perpetrator should never be mentioned, and his life should never be scrutinized.

I agree with this somewhat but I dont think that will ever happen. It's what the media is. It reports the news and this sadly is news. And in regards to raitings, they are really giving the public what they want. People want to read about this stuff.. they might not like it but they are still want to follow the story. People tend to be social/gossips and this is just a part of that. And if someone isnt then they are actually considered not 'normal', as far as I can tell anyway.

View PostSeeker79, on 16 December 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

3) We need to end the production of "games" that glorify violence. Grand theft auto...... Really?. The majority of these crimes are committed by young people between the ages of 16--26, most of them were heavy into video games. I'm not against gameing totally, but these games are incredibly rediculouse and fuel violant fantasies while isolating the child from interaction with others. Not to mention there are child psychologists and formulas designed to addict young people.

I dont agree with this, games are fantasy and most know thats just what they are. Take for example Farcry3, my son loves that game and he hunts the animals in it but in real life he/we never kill anything. We even avoid stepping on snails and we make jokes about how they must think we move too fast. "Hey you! wait for me to cross, I'm walking here!!" etc. It's a funny thing, you kinda have to see and hear my tiny snail voice. lol. Anyway my point is I dont see this hunting in game as teaching him to not like or care for animals and I think the same applies to Call of Duty games.

Also people are interacting with other people when they play online. In this quote you say it takes away there interaction but later you say 'they cant wait to get home to shoot each other(to play together) and have you heard how they speak to each other'.. So this is still interaction and everyone is doing it, not just in games. We have smartphones, the internet, emails, twitter, facebook and all these things that could be classed as isolating people(in a face to face manner) while at the same time allowing people to communicate. So kids now days use video games to shoot each other, when I was younger we had toy guns. So its pretty much the same thing imo, just a different way of playing. Kids get together to play, at school/after school and then later they play online.


View PostSeeker79, on 16 December 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

4) I deplore gun control. I feel everyone should have a right to own own them. But, I would not mind makeing gun ownership a long and tedious process. Im workIng on my concealed weapons permit, and after Friday my wife will be joining me. There is a lengthy course and several interviews. I will never vote for anything limiting citizens to own guns, but I would vote for an elevated level of awareness and training. It should be an honer and hard won prize to be an owner of dangerous weapons. Sure criminals will just get them illegally. I understand that. It would be up to the citizen to take the process seriously and do it if they take self defense with weapons seriously.

I cant comment much on the gun control because I will never understand the need to own them. I'm in Australia so we just dont tend to understand it. But I think if you live in a culture that has grown up with them and seems to adore them(more than people adore video games..)then I think you are asking for trouble. There can be many factors that come into play with people who do these spree killings. But I think if they could not at least get the weapons then they would not be able to kill as many. I think you can have laws and training as much as you like but I dont think that would still stop a kid taking his parents firearms. Sure they might have to be locked away.. but what good is that if someone is trying to break into your house at night and you got no time to get it.. yeah? So I dont believe locking them away would be acceptable to the paranoid.


Anyway I'm not sure what can be done. Teaching respect for all life I think is important but this is not really where we are at yet.

Edited by Kazahel, 16 December 2012 - 05:42 AM.


#8    QuiteContrary

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 05:52 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 16 December 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

3) I have read articles that suggest the oppoaite, that violent games give people who have violent tendancies a release that might actually in other circumstances en up very messily.

Yes I've heard that, and I've also read articles that claim our children are exposed to too much violence and it has consequences.

http://www.aafp.org/...lencemedia.html


#9    QuiteContrary

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:27 AM

I also think the medications these mass murderers may be on could be a contributing factor. Not only are we a well-armed country but we are also a heavily medicated country. And violent and suicidal tendencies do occur in some people as a side effect of some medications. But this isn't discussed much or even made public. Don't mass murders make looking into how much a medication may cause violent outbursts in some verses  how much it helps others worth public disclosure? Better monitoring and screening of patients on medications known to cause violent tendencies surely needs addressed as well.


#10    Arbenol

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:28 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 16 December 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

4) I deplore gun control. I feel everyone should have a right to own own them. But, I would not mind makeing gun ownership a long and tedious process. Im workIng on my concealed weapons permit, and after Friday my wife will be joining me. There is a lengthy course and several interviews. I will never vote for anything limiting citizens to own guns, but I would vote for an elevated level of awareness and training. It should be an honer and hard won prize to be an owner of dangerous weapons. Sure criminals will just get them illegally. I understand that. It would be up to the citizen to take the process seriously and do it if they take self defense with weapons seriously.

I've been thinking about this a lot over the last day or so, for obvious reasons. I've come to the conclusion that the availability of firearms in the US is not the major factor in these incidents. Sure, it makes it easier for someone to do the maximum amount of damage in the shortest period of time, but many countries have lots of forearms and don't have the number of these incidents that America does.

The only conclusion is that there is something in the American psyche about the right to own weapons like this. I've often heard people state they would protect their 2nd amendment rights with their own lives. That's how important it is. Yet no number of these incidents or accidental shootings appears to make them question that. It's like they're saying "That's our right. Bad things happen. What's to be done about it?"

That coupled with a gung-ho approach of believing you've got the right to shoot at anyone you consider might possibly be a threat (shoot first, ask questions later mentality) normalises the use of guns.

I'm sorry to say this but whilst Americans may have the right to own guns, too many of them show that they're totally unsuitable to have them. No amount of trying to identify the crazies early will address that.

Guns are not bad. Americans are not bad. But Americans with guns.......?

Edited by Arbenol68, 16 December 2012 - 06:28 AM.


#11    s33ker

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:33 AM

ban video games but not guns? lmfao at that, violent games do not make killers. If that were the case
there would be alot more teenagers running around killing people because COD,Grand theft auto and
Assasain Greed  are part of all gamers collections.Millions of these games have been sold and continue to be
and so do guns. Which really do  youtkink would have more impact, banning games or guns?


#12    RavenEyes19

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:40 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 16 December 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

3) We need to end the production of "games" that glorify violence. Grand theft auto...... Really?. The majority of these crimes are committed by young people between the ages of 16--26, most of them were heavy into video games. I'm not against gameing totally, but these games are incredibly rediculouse and fuel violant fantasies while isolating the child from interaction with others. Not to mention there are child psychologists and formulas designed to addict young people.

I agree with most of your points except this. Most people who play these games understand that they are just fantasy. Banning games will lead to banning all sorts of things that contain violence..movies, tv shows, books. I'm very much against censorship. I don't think young children should be playing violent games, but they shouldn't be off limits to the rest of us simply because some parents are irresponsible.


#13    White Crane Feather

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:17 AM

Guns will never be banned in this country. That is a total fantasy. But other countries have guns and not the problems.

I'm going to say it .... But guns don't kill people. People do. It's a fantasy to think that if Somone who wants to cause carnage won't figure out some other way to do it. Most of the perpetrators are highly intelligent. It's only a hop skip and a jump on the Internet to make IEDs. Not to mention a simple knife or even a baseball bat. A teenager with a knife can do quite a bit of damage, yet we don't see bloody attacks on children from teenagers with knives across the globe.  No, the availability of guns is a very small problem. If someone smart wants to find them, they will, or they will improvise. There is something wrong with culture here. The games are not as docile as people think. They are not the same kind of games they were 20 years ago. I expected resistance to that idea... But we have to look at hard facts here.  A common thread between all of the perpetrators is their age and I'd bet a million dollars all of them spent a lot of time gaming.

Canada does just fine with libral gun laws. In Mexico, guns are everywhere and enforcement of existing gun laws is near nill, and although they have violence related to drugs and gangs, there is nobody shooting up schools.

It's obvious that the availability of guns in this country is mixing with some other thing. It is an enabler, but so are knives, gasoline, baseball bats... Etc etc.

These games have gone to far. this country has a free market, so I don't see a legal ban, but it's defiantly apart of the problem. this country has free speech, so the media will never be silenced, but it's also defiantly part of the problem.

Even if the left manages to ban handguns and such, it would nearly start a civil war to ban hunting rifles.

About online interaction. This is not scializing inn a healthy way. have your heard the way kids interact on these things. "Aaakkkk shoot him in ****in balls...shoot him in the ******* balls.....yeah!!! yes then rape his sister. " just one line that sticks in my head while playing ghost recon myself 7 or 8 years ago.

About bullying. Autistic and sensitive kids get torn apart in school. These are the kids that end up being these guys. There should be groups set up in schools to brings these kids into the fold. Kindness and the serious implications of ones affect on another should be an important revisited subject.

There is no clear answer.

1)  It's obviously not the availability of guns, other countries have availability but not nearly the amount of rampages. And gun ownership is cultural staple in the us, it's not going anywhere.

2) we cant censor the media or games.

3) bully's will bully no matter what


I think we have a multifaceted problem here. We have a rich country whose parents are to busy, stressed, and distant to actually do things with their kids and spoil  them with whatever they want, mixed with overly medicated, divorced troubled familys, a developing culture of sensationalized violence, and god knows the amount of pesticides and chemicals in our systems. Throw firearms in the mix, and I think we have a number of recipes for explosive situations.

We will continue to see these things happen again. As the next generation slides into their teens and these incidents immortalized whatch out America. I suspect there are thoughts churning in some of these minds as we speak, and they are receiving plenty of training from our lovely and ever more sophisticated 1st person shooter games.

I will give up my guns whenever everybody else does. It will be a Mexican standoff of emense proportions.

I have tried to talk my wife into moving, but she won't have it. But Mabey if it keeps happening she will. Australia, Canada, we might be headed your way. I'd love to live in Australia, and yes I would leave my weapons behind if that is the rule there.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#14    QuiteContrary

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:28 AM


"Dr. Ding, the Hong Kong sociologist, said mainland China schools he has visited in the past two years have beefed up security in the wake of the knife attacks.

"I think these kind of attacks become more frequent in many countries, not just China and U.S., because of a number of different factors," Ding said. "Number one is the increased pressure for individuals. Today's world is very different from the world we saw 50 years ago ... individuals in their daily life face much more uncertainty, risk, financial pressure and competition."

"The second thing is we live in a global village now, where the spread of information -- especially bad news -- is so instantaneous," said Ding, leading to more copycat crimes across the globe.

"I don't think we should limit the free press ... but people are watching this, they are learning from these kind of attacks. They are becoming more and more organized, better planned -- and that is horrible." "

http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_c2



#15    White Crane Feather

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:28 AM

Don't be surprised if this infection starts showing up in other country's even with gun prohibition. The united states tends to export its culture. Hang on folks the next 20 years is going to be a wild ride.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-




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