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How do we stop it.


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#91    AsteroidX

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:07 AM

I didnt understand IT


#92    White Crane Feather

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:39 PM

View PostRender, on 20 December 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

    School Shootings: What We Know and What We Can Do



http://www.scienceda...21219152705.htm

I don't really agree with their conclusions, because they appear very hollow.
It's rediculouse. What? Are you going to lock some mental kid up for drawing bad things. I used to draw war scenes in school, it was fun.

These things always come out of the blue. Everytime there is some other motive, from sandy hook, to columbine, pearl, etc etc. they are all different circumstances.

The only thing you will get is paranoia over some innocent aspergers kid who would never harm a fly.

Edited by Seeker79, 20 December 2012 - 03:58 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#93    AsteroidX

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:49 PM

Just a FYI please refer to him as the shooter. Talking about him by name is just not very disrespectful to the people that may sensitive or could happen to wander in that may have lost a child or a loved one in the mass shooting.. Im seeing alot his name popping up and its disturbing. Its SOP not to mention these shooters names.


#94    White Crane Feather

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:01 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 20 December 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Just a FYI please refer to him as the shooter. Talking about him by name is just not very disrespectful to the people that may sensitive or could happen to wander in that may have lost a child or a loved one in the mass shooting.. Im seeing alot his name popping up and its disturbing. Its SOP not to mention these shooters names.
Right. Nor should we quote them, if they say anything or publish their manifestos.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#95    me-wonders

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:05 PM

View Postciriuslea, on 20 December 2012 - 05:27 AM, said:

I think we have to accept that people are violent full stop, it doesn't take much to turn a law abiding MOPublic into a killer.but IMO trying to keep it out of anywhere is as absurd as trying to eradicate it from society, you can only make it as hard as humanly possibly for violent people to enter schools with intents on shooting everyone

I understand this new shooting in Newtown, Lanza forced his way in so every possible measure was taken ...what will happen is they will move onto a mall or another place that has  lots of people...a church on Sunday....a sports crowds....or even a large store when its no longer possible to enter schools that seem to get most of the attention....I can understand a kid who's been bullied going back and getting revenge by shooting up the school he associates with hate..but is this the case in Newtown ?

The violence is cultural.  Not all cultures manifest the violence that ours does.


#96    AsteroidX

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:15 PM

Greed and Oppresssion tends to Polarize into Anger and Violence from those that feel they are so wronged.

Thats Human nature. And unless greed and Opppression go away welll never have an answr


#97    me-wonders

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:18 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 20 December 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

Makes sense. So let's make games to chop up hookers and shoot police because it might stimulate your brain.

Absolutely not.  A culture should never condone the killing of others, except possibly in war with the rules of war.  In societies where there was cannibalism it was controlled by making it a religious rite.  War is kind of like a religious rite, in that it is special condition where the unthinkable is accepted.  However, modern training turns humans into killers, and they should be deprogrammed before being put back on the streets.  

I read this morning that the young man's mother may have been taking steps to institutionalize him, and that she had volunteered at the school, and he resented that.  It appears this son would not allow his mother to have her own life.  I remember when I cared for my grandmother with Alzhiemer's disease, I would sneak out at night and go to the bar, just to have contact with other adults.  I think this family needed help.  We are are not doing a good job of handling mental illness.  Far too much of burden falls on the care giver who is usually a mother, wive or daughter.  These caregivers are excepted to care for the individual needing care, out of love, and they are not paid, nor do they get any social support.  The caregiver becomes the prisoner of the person needing care.

However, I want people to understand the importance of culture, so I am returning to this point.  A military Industrial Complex that remains in a constant state of war, is bond to be a violent culture.

Edited by me-wonders, 20 December 2012 - 04:21 PM.


#98    me-wonders

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:43 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 20 December 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

Greed and Oppresssion tends to Polarize into Anger and Violence from those that feel they are so wronged.

Thats Human nature. And unless greed and Opppression go away welll never have an answr

You know what I really think is wrong?  People just do not pay enough attention to research about child rearing and education and culture.  Please check out this link
http://www.context.o......4/mcelroy/  

"Human nature" is a matter of child rearing.

Quote

Montagu credits Margaret Mead with pioneering work in the examination of aggressiveness in non-literate societies:


Years ago…in her book, Sex and Temperament in Three Primitive Societies, she pointed to the existence of a strong association between childrearing practices and later personality development. The child who received a great deal of attention, whose every need was promptly met, as among the New Guinea Mountain Arapesh, became a gentle, cooperative, unaggressive adult. On the other hand, the child who received perfunctory, intermittent attention, as among the New Guinea Mundugomor, became a selfish, uncooperative, aggressive adult.
Later research among non-literate civilized peoples has substantially confirmed this relationship. . .


Might I add to this, the non aggressive adult would not do well in our culture.  Not long ago we protected women and a protected women did not have to be aggressive.  That is no longer true.  A woman left alone with a trouble child is not a protected woman.  She has none of the social supports that she have expected in the past, and if she must work to support her family, she will end up on welfare if she is not aggressive and competitive.  Our "nature" has changed because our culture has changed and it is now taboo to be feminine.  It is really taboo to be so non competitive one can not get off welfare, and in a society with high unemployment, only the most competitive get the jobs.  We are talking survival and what we must become to survive in the culture we create.  You better bet, she is going to do what she can to make her children aggressive.  I repeat, this is not "human nature" but cultural.

Edited by me-wonders, 20 December 2012 - 04:52 PM.


#99    AsteroidX

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:45 PM

How many generations do we left to get it right


#100    veledran

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:47 PM

First off, if you plan to ban violent video games, I hope you also plan to ban the Bible. I have seen more hatred and abuse from those that use the Bible than from people who play games. How many wars have been fought due to the Bible? How many due to video games?

I think bullying is a large issues. It is not the only issue, but behind many shootings, you find that the individual involved was bullied at some point. Teachers do not seem to care and I think something that needs to be taught to kids at an early age, is that many instances of bullying are crimes. Getting beaten up or constantly made fun of, assault and harassment. If the bullies actually started getting punished for the things they do, then they may start to think that it is not a good idea. Too often the bullies get away with what they do, so why stop it?

This leads into something else that is not taught in schools, respect. I grew up living on military bases. We were taught how to work together and respect one another. It was even to the point where if you had high grades, but did not respect people, you would be held back a grade. The culture between military base schools and civilian schools are nearly night and day. I could not believe how kids acted when I started going to civilian schools. Constant fights, bullying, extreme prejudices. I had been reading a book on ghost stories and some girls made up a story about me putting a curse on them. The parents flooded the school phone lines with talk of parents wanting to hang me and burn my body. What the heck?

Anyway, I must be going for now. It's not about objects, it's about how people perceive others and their worth. If someone sees everyone as their brother and sister, they will not harm them. If someone sees everyone as lesser than themselves, they will treat them like animals.


#101    White Crane Feather

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:25 PM

I think it's realistic to say we are not going to ban anything. What I'm hearing from most people is that there is something intrinsically wrong with our culture.

But again I ask why here? Mexicos culture is competitive and violent at times, there is even plenty of bullying and crime, access to guns, and video games. Why is it not a problem there? What is different?

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#102    Sweetpumper

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:35 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 20 December 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

Mexicos culture is competitive and violent at times, there is even plenty of bullying and crime, access to guns, and video games. Why is it not a problem there? What is different?

LMAO!!!

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#103    AsteroidX

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:16 PM

You should go on vacation to Juarez. I here its hot at night and cool in the day. the night life is the rage and if you want to do some shopping you can hop over to Loredo and get some Mexican made goods.


#104    ciriuslea

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:54 PM

View Postme-wonders, on 20 December 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

"Human nature" is a matter of child rearing.

Every human trait still exists in every human, all they need are the right triggers...I don't think any amount of rearing can control human nature especially at such a level,

View Postme-wonders, on 20 December 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

The violence is cultural.  Not all cultures manifest the violence that ours does.


But every culture still has violence in one form or another, at the end of the day murder is still murder and IMO killing a child is exactly the same as killing an adult and is also the same as killing as many as possible, once youve taken that step the rest are just details as harsh as that seems.


#105    Render

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 06:08 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 20 December 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

I think it's realistic to say we are not going to ban anything. What I'm hearing from most people is that there is something intrinsically wrong with our culture.

But again I ask why here? Mexicos culture is competitive and violent at times, there is even plenty of bullying and crime, access to guns, and video games. Why is it not a problem there? What is different?

They've evolved to thinking about death as something that just happens.
It's not shocking anymore.

Just look at Alarma!
http://en.wikipedia....rma!_(magazine)
A very graphic magazine where journalists go out and try to photograph dead bodies as fast as they can at a crime scene. It's extremely popular, and is even sold in parts of the USA.

The journalists explain that in their culture death is less horrific to them, it's just what happens. Even the cruel deaths.
They've been going on for years without being sued.





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