29 replies to this topic

[Princess Serenity]

I'm on anxiety medicine and I don't have any evil thoughts. Maybe because I'm not on any anti-depressants.

[tapirmusic]

tapirmusic, on 14 December 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

I think these shooting have more to do with Medications than guns.  Obviously we don't know anything about the shooters at the moment, but it's a hunch I have.

[AsteroidX]

Quote

Is the prescription the cause of the attacks or is it the dam-wall preventing the attacks from happening sooner?
Is someone who is on the medication just someone who is going to crack one day and kill themselves/others and the meds exacerbating it or preventing it? There are millions of people on anti-depressants, ADHD meds etc etc but is what we're seeing a "all Nazis were German, but not all Germans were Nazis" syndrome? Are the drugs to blame or the people?

There is a lot of evidence the antipsychotic SSRI's may indeed be contributing to these symptoms (suicide/homicidal violence). Especially in children and young adults but theres some evidence of it happening in adults as well but at a less frequent level of occurences. Perhaps you see mom drown her 2 kids in the bathtub. Nanny goes appwild while caring for someones kids.  these are the adult stories recently of adults on antipsychotics commiting homicide for no reason other then were on meds and possibly depressed. But your average depressed person not medicated will just take there own life or smoke weed as an alternative form of medicating themselves. And I heard someone mention antianxiety meds. Completely different class of drugs unless your offered effexor (SSRI) which is occasionally used as an adjunct treatment to anxiety. If your ever offered SSRI's for depression tell your doctor your allergic to all of them.

Edited by AsteroidX, 18 December 2012 - 12:11 AM.

[AsteroidX]

Now many people do just fine on SSRI's and have no problem at all including a reduction in there depression. But these are adults. The warnings on them for children are clear and labeled. Unfortunately 20 is not a child in the eyes of the Big Pharm.

[preacherman76]

Wearer of Hats, on 17 December 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

Is the prescription the cause of the attacks or is it the dam-wall preventing the attacks from happening sooner?
Is someone who is on the medication just someone who is going to crack one day and kill themselves/others and the meds exacerbating it or preventing it? There are millions of people on anti-depressants, ADHD meds etc etc but is what we're seeing a "all Nazis were German, but not all Germans were Nazis" syndrome? Are the drugs to blame or the people?

Its the cause of the attacks. The list of side effects paints a pretty clear picture.

[Cradle of Fish]

I think you're looking at it the wrong way. The fact that so many spree killers are either mentally ill or on medication should suggest that there may be a flaw in the way these people are being treated. Drugs alone don't work and not all drugs work the same for all people. Most medications have a small chance to cause adverse effects, when that happens a doctor is supposed to change the persons prescription. Patients need more regular contact with their doctors. They need around the clock access to councillors by phone. Gun culture has some part to play for tragedies like these, but I think overall its vast gaps in mental health care system that should be addressed first.

[AsteroidX]

Yes they will take you from one SSRI to another SSRI which has the same side effects listed. Its absurd.

[Babe Ruth]

Cradle of Fish, on 18 December 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

I think you're looking at it the wrong way. The fact that so many spree killers are either mentally ill or on medication should suggest that there may be a flaw in the way these people are being treated. Drugs alone don't work and not all drugs work the same for all people. Most medications have a small chance to cause adverse effects, when that happens a doctor is supposed to change the persons prescription. Patients need more regular contact with their doctors. They need around the clock access to councillors by phone. Gun culture has some part to play for tragedies like these, but I think overall its vast gaps in mental health care system that should be addressed first.

A little bit naive.  Supposed to do this, small chance of adverse effects, more this, more that.  Not very persuasive.

The practice today, and has been for at least a decade, is that certain children are medicated with powerful drugs, OFF LABEL, for years of their lives.  I remember a conversation with a 16 year old girl who had been on such medicine for more than half of her young life.

NO studies have been done regarding the effects of chronic and long term use of these substances on children.  Or rather, one might make a case that these violent outbreaks and shootings ARE the study.  They and we are guinea pigs, undergoing individual and social experiments.

[Cradle of Fish]

AsteroidX, on 18 December 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

Yes they will take you from one SSRI to another SSRI which has the same side effects listed. Its absurd.

But the same side effects don't occur in every person who takes a certain medication. Most people will get one or two sminor side effects that will subside over a week or two. Not to mention there are other forms of anti-depressants. This isn't an epidemic of people on SSRIs commiting spree killings, it's more a matter of many spree killers were on them. You're looking at a symptom and not a cause.

[Cradle of Fish]

AsteroidX, on 18 December 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

Yes they will take you from one SSRI to another SSRI which has the same side effects listed. Its absurd.

But the same side effects don't occur in every person who takes a certain medication. Most people will get one or two sminor side effects that will subside over a week or two. Not to mention there are other forms of anti-depressants. This isn't an epidemic of people on SSRIs commiting spree killings, it's more a matter of many spree killers were on them. You're looking at a symptom and not a cause.

[Einsteinium]

Cradle of Fish, on 18 December 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

But the same side effects don't occur in every person who takes a certain medication. Most people will get one or two sminor side effects that will subside over a week or two. Not to mention there are other forms of anti-depressants. This isn't an epidemic of people on SSRIs commiting spree killings, it's more a matter of many spree killers were on them. You're looking at a symptom and not a cause.

In my opinion this is a 'which came first the chicken or the egg' scenario. You don't KNOW that the SSRI drugs do not play a part in this. Why have mass shootings increased so drastically in the past several decades http://reason.com/bl...ing-more-common , and at the same time SSRI use has increased drastically as well http://www.health.ha...ns-201110203624.

Quote

According to a reportby the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), the rate of antidepressant use in this country among teens and adults (people ages 12 and older) increased by almost 400% between 1988–1994 and 2005–2008.

Quote

For much of the 20th century there were, on average, a handful of mass killings per decade. But that number spiked in 1980, and kept rising thereafter. In the United States, there have now been at least 62 mass shootings in the past three decades, with 24 in the last seven years alone. This has happened even as the nation's overall violent crime and homicide rates have been dropping.

I think that the correlation between the two at least merits further study, but to state factually that "You're looking at a symptom and not a cause." is simply ignorant. We do not know. Not enough studies have been done to know whether or not this is true, and big Pharma does not want such studies to be conducted because they make enormous profits from SSRI drugs.

[AsteroidX]

Cradle I said just that in post 19

[OverSword]

People don't understand that big pharma spend millions and millions of dollars developing drugs.  They spend this money expecting to make a profit and go through hell and high water to ensure they get on the market.  Why do you think that anti-depresants advertised on TV have a disclaimer at the end saying "if you have feelings of increased depression, thoughts of suicide, hear voices, or have the urge to shoot a room full of people, stop taking the medicine immediatly and please call your physician" It's because on a certain percentage of people, especialy younger people (under 30) who's brain chemistry is still forming these drugs do the opposite of what they do for most others.  The guy that shot up the movie theatre was on them, the guy that shot up the university was on them, the guy that shot the arizona politician was on them rumor has it the guys that shot up columbine were on them, although because they were minors that information was not released.  Notably the guy that shot up the coffee shop in Seattle earlier this year was not on them, however he was in his 40's and had he been may not have went on a rampage.  I think a good response to these tragedies would be to ban anti-depressants in people under 30.

[tapirmusic]

Time to bring back the loony bins!
Lock 'em up boys!
Can't have all that crazy outside, infecting society!


Medication Time.

[Babe Ruth]

Big Pharma is so much in control of the government and media that this connection will not get any coverage on the evening TV news, or in any of the MSM.