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Secret Caves under the Pyramids


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#121    Mangoze

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:36 AM

Is "Cool Waters" the opposite of "Chaotic Waters"?


#122    kmt_sesh

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:40 AM

View PostLRW, on 23 December 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

You now say the ancient deities described in the so called ancient egyptian pantheon and deities from mediterranean are not all that powerful, well i'll disagree with you on that, i believe they were powerful deities and powerful abilities were attributed to them.

In all reality it doesn't matter a bit what you believe. It doesn't matter what I believe, either. All that matters is what the ancient peoples themselves recorded about their deities, and how they could or could not interact with them. I see you entirely glossed over my suggestion to review the Negative Confession in the Book of the Dead. Specifically, it's part of what's been designated Spell 125. That example alone reinforces the clear belief in the ancient mind that the gods were quite fallible.

Your own example of Zeus works against you. Pretty pictures don't prove a point. Research does. I suggest you engage in it, and ardently so. You'd probably find it enjoyable, as I have. No one doubts the power of a god like Zeus in the ancient mind, but that's a far cry from describing him as perfect and all powerful. In point of fact, Zeus was a horny lech; browbeaten by his wife, Hera; bellicose to a fault; and, like all deities of the Greek pantheon, jealous of mortals. Read the Iliad and see for yourself how easily fooled Zeus was by his own wife in the tale. Read about how the gods bickered and schemed against one another as they took up sides between the Greeks and Troy.

My characterization of Zeus is not based on my opinion or beliefs, by the way. It's based on what the ancient Greeks themselves wrote about Zeus.

Quote

I knew that you would try to give Amun or Amun-Ra an earthly origin in the mythology. Which again i'll disagree with, because their ancient mythology and creation myth was based around the cosmos. The egyptologists are only foolishly guessing their mythology and still know very little about it. The general consensus mainstream creation myth by egyptologists is given as a "lifeless sea from which 8 primordial deities sprang from" such a sea could never be considered an earth, when the sun is being described as having descended from such a primordial river, therefore the beings that sprang from it could be considered to be of an extraterrestrial character whether fiction or not, because earth is not a sea its a planet, also in the consensus mythology Amun sprang to life originally from that sea and later became to be represented as the sun god Amun-Ra. He is a transcendent deity, transcendence refers to the aspect of God's nature and power which is wholly independent of and removed from the material universe. In other words extraterrestrial.

The waters of chaos was not the earth, no. The creation myth of Atum from Heliopolis, regarding the mound of mud rising from the waters, describes in very loose terms how the world began. It does not concern outer space. And the entire Ennead (nine gods, actually) did not arise from the waters of chaos—only Atum did. In the myth he self-engendered the next pair of deities, who gave birth to the next deities, and so on. This is Ancient Egypt 101. The ancient Egyptians themselves recorded this account in their religion.

If you wish to consider an extraterrestrial nature for the Egyptian gods, that is your right. However, the ancient Egyptians themselves considered no such thing. Their world was centered on the Nile Valley, and they placed the creation of the world right there.

For the sake of clarity, it is not Amun who rose from the waters of chaos but the much-older god Atum. You might be confusing them. Amun was a god of little repute and no great importance beyond the Theban region until the Middle Kingdom, and his veneration as the state god was not fixed until the New Kingdom. Amun appears in the Pyramid Texts of the Old Kingdom, as I recall, but as a minor deity.

It wasn't until much later that the aspect of Re was attached to Amun. This was a means by the Theban royalty to make their personal god, Amun, more appealing to everyone else in the land of Egypt—and most people living beyond the Theban region would not have known Amun until the Theban kings elevated him. Combining Amun with Re, the latter of whom was known by all Egyptians and was much older in their pantheon, was a means to popularize Amun. And it worked.

Quote

You also say in your post, you're not sure what extraterrestrial means, of course you don't because you are ignorant towards the topic. You attribute everything about the topic extraterrestrial to one show seen on history channel, "Ancient Aliens", i don't believe everything they say, also don't be go assuming what i read or don't read.

I respectfully ask that you pay closer attention when reading other people's posts. I've noticed this tendency of yours. Do not misrepresent what others have written. In this case, for instance, I did not say I wasn't sure of the meaning of "extraterrestrial." I was having some fun with your term "extraterrestrial deity." Go back and review the relevant posts, if you need to.

It's clear you're obtaining much of your information from Ancient Aliens or at least from media of the same repute. As far as that goes, Ancient Aliens is little more than a tiresome regurgitation of the entire ancient-alien falderal churned out in half-baked, nonsensical books by the likes of Erich von Däniken. The same flotsam clutters the internet. As I always say, consider the source. Garbage in, garbage out.

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You say the ancient mediterranean deities were not powerful, that has to be the most foolish comment i have yet seen on UM.

They were incredibly powerful deities, whole armies died for them.

Arguably very few wars in ancient times had much of anything to do with the deities of one side or the other. In fact, when an ancient power conquered a lesser state, rarely did the greater power require the lesser to change their religious beliefs. Egypt did not. Hatti did not. Assyria did not. Persia did not.

Ancient war was mostly about acquiring natural resources and greater territory, as well as defending the home front. And of course a lot of it had to to with the egos and desires of ancient monarchs whose power was such that most modern people today couldn't comprehend it.

The same can't be said for religions in relatively modern times. I can guarantee you with utmost confidence, far more people have died in the name of the Christian God.

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#123    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:11 AM

View Postcladking, on 23 December 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

I believe this is nonsense.  These people didn't invent the calender by chance.  They needed
rto know the paths of the stars and to be able to accurately measure time.


View Postthe L, on 09 December 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

...
They sure seen time the same as we today. They also sleep 8 hours. In fact ancient invented our calendar. In Mesopotamia.
First calendars were lunar calendars. Every 28 days they saw full moon so they ask why. So they set calendar. Moon calendar. I think oldest dates 10 000 BC. (?)
Then they set star calendar and sun calendar. For crops. For navigation. I ancient books we ofetn read : "when orion is rising."

Then all folklore stories and sayings are same in every corner of the world in essence. Because they are based on observations.
Then 1st sophisticated calendar was set in Babylon. 60 based system.
60 system based time because it can be diveded with 12 months and 30 days,lowest number that can be divde with both.
They have had 12 months plus additional 1. So 13. (?)
7th day 14th 21, 28th day were unlucky days to them. So that days they didnt want to do anything.Hint- Beging of weeks.
20 day in month was lucky day. Why? Because it was 49 day of previos month. 7x7 =49.
Shubatum was fullmoon day Hebrews took it as hsabat.
Then Greek and Romans took it.Then Julian Ceaser reform -ever 4 years one day add.
Early Romans have 10 months starting from march because of spring equinociue didnt have january and february...late 12 and 13 month called mercenery because thats when you will get paid.
In 528 AD Gregorian chatolic reform calendar.


Only mystery to me in ancient messuring of time is Mesopotamia is Sars,unit of 3600....How they come about and how they were used in Sumerian king list.

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#124    DieChecker

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:59 PM

View Postcladking, on 20 December 2012 - 02:50 AM, said:

In 4700 years the cave might have accumulated hundreds of tons of bat guano.

You might be noticed hauling it out.
Your non-sequitor post has me off balance Clad....

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#125    DieChecker

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:11 PM

View Postkampz, on 20 December 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

Speaking of cats what about the cheetah? Isn't there something strange with every cheetahs DNA? Weren't cheetahs pets? Did they keep cheetah kennels and that's why there's barely any variation in their DNA and the other ones got killed that were different? They kept the nice cheetahs reproducing?
Cheetahs are suspected to have been invovlved in a bottleneck event where only a couple hundred survived and thus their genetic diversity is very limited. And that would have happened a million plus years ago, so humans were not involved.

Cheetahs take well to domestication. They are almost as trainable and affectionate as dogs. I used to live next to some cheetah handlers in southern oregon that worked at the Wildlife Safari in Winston OR (Where I went to High School). They have one of the best captive cheetah breeding programs in the world there, AFAIK.
http://www.wildlifes...ng_program.html

The Egyptians definately kept them as pets. Probably many other middle eastern/ Persian rulers also. The middle east used to be a large part of the cheetahs ancient range.
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Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#126    DieChecker

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:25 PM

View Postkampz, on 21 December 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

Why were people like Herodotus explaining it with muscle power by a hundred thousand men and other people?
I personnally think it is because Herodotus's information was from 2000 years later.

Great Pyramid = 2560 BC
Herodotus = 484 BC

Quote

The first Pyramid built by Egyptians was the Step Pyramid right?
But.... There are many Mastabas from well before that, and a Mastaba tomb resembles a one step pyramid in many, many ways. Stack ten mastabas on top of each other (each getting smaller) and you have a pyramid.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#127    cladking

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:29 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 23 December 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

Your non-sequitor post has me off balance Clad....

There is a cave.  It stinks to hell.  It is full of bats.

It simply follows that it is full of bat feces.  If it is full of bat feces anything that was in
it when it was in use is now under several feet of guano.  

This is the nature of the real world.  it's not like the world of pencil pushers and people
who count how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.  The real world is brutal
to pencil pushers.  The real world simply doesn't care about theories or even "natural
law".  The real is where man wrests his living and will die when he misapprehends it.  The
Egyptians knew this but we've forgotten.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#128    DieChecker

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:30 PM

View Postcladking, on 21 December 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

There are several practical reasons that it would be impossible. It's not merely the impossibility of projecting 55 HP on constricted ramps but the impossibility of raising the resources for putting together a large percentage of the population in a primitive economy.  
Not even close to being impossible. And I would probably dispute your number of 55 HP being needed.

Quote

It's really almost irrelevant that all the evidence says they didn't use manpower because even if the evidence suggested muscle power it needs to be rejected as a virtual impossibility.  The size of the pyramid and more especially the size of the blocks suggest that some motive force was probably employed.  It doesn't matter that the physical evidence supports the idea that a motive force was used simply because there was likely no other way.
What about the average blocks is unworkable. The supposed average size of a block is 2.5 tons, right? At limestone density that is a little bit bigger then a meter on a side. Sure the bottom blocks are huge, but then wouldn't that average number mean the top blocks are much smaller? Maybe the topmost blocks were only 1.5 tons? Like moving a dead cow... not too hard. The sleds needed would have only been 4 feet wide and 5 feet long.

View Postcladking, on 22 December 2012 - 04:35 AM, said:

The argument is that the pyramid is there and they only had primitive means therefore they mustta used ramps.

This is utter hogwash.  We don't know how it was built whether aliens or flying stones therefore we need to investigate not stop thinking.  The evidence says they used a motive force.  Just because the evidence is thin doesn't mean we should toss it all out andassume things that are nowhere in evidence.
Nope. We think it was ramps, because we've found examples of ramps. Thus establishing they had that technology. And we've not found any evidence to suggest that they knew any other way, at that time. All rope/pully/counterweight evidence is from hundreds of years later.

You are right that we don't know for sure, but it is like finding a guy with a smoking gun standing over a body... sometimes things are not what they appear but USUALLY they ARE!

Edited by DieChecker, 23 December 2012 - 08:36 PM.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#129    DieChecker

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:39 PM

View Postcladking, on 23 December 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

There is a cave.  It stinks to hell.  It is full of bats.

It simply follows that it is full of bat feces.  If it is full of bat feces anything that was in
it when it was in use is now under several feet of guano.  

This is the nature of the real world.  it's not like the world of pencil pushers and people
who count how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.  The real world is brutal
to pencil pushers.  The real world simply doesn't care about theories or even "natural
law".  The real is where man wrests his living and will die when he misapprehends it.  The
Egyptians knew this but we've forgotten.
My point was that if someone REALLY wanted to explore and proove those caves existed, they would only need a crowbar and a camera with video capability to proove it.

Regarding bats... Mr Collins supposedly traversed hundreds of yards of cave tunnels and took pics at points, and there was no piles of guano in the pics, just stone floor. Perhaps your bat comment is further proof that Mr Collins made up this story??

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#130    DieChecker

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:41 PM

View PostLRW, on 22 December 2012 - 06:19 AM, said:

lol

The so called ancient egyptians in the "egyptologists theory" were ancient alien theorists and believers, to deny it only shows how ignorant you are of it. They believed according to the egyptologists research on their religon that they were created by what can easily and only be described as ancient primordial extraterrestrial deities, whether real or not, they still believed it according to egyptology research. They were in actual fact ancient alien theorists and believers.

Now you are  saying they had no religon and just built all the monuments for the fun of it? lol The point is that they believed in creator deities according to egyptology research, that research promotes the idea cryptically that the ancient egyptians believed in extraterrestrial creator deities.

They are fringe too? lol

Amun Ra  is an extraterrestrial deity in the mythology, whether real or not, the ancients believed he was real , they worshipped him, therefore they were ancient alien theorists.

You're very hypocritical in your views.
Thank you Mr LCW, your posts were very interesting and entertaining.

I very much disagree with you however. The evidence that exists does not support your ideas.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#131    questionmark

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:42 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 23 December 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

My point was that if someone REALLY wanted to explore and proove those caves existed, they would only need a crowbar and a camera with video capability to proove it.

Regarding bats... Mr Collins supposedly traversed hundreds of yards of cave tunnels and took pics at points, and there was no piles of guano in the pics, just stone floor. Perhaps your bat comment is further proof that Mr Collins made up this story??

If you take a good look at the video you will see that it was not even shot in darkness and "greened" after filming.

Fakes promoting fakes... or the quack merry go-round.

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#132    mlauzon

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 09:05 PM

View PostHilander, on 16 December 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

We will never find out what's under the sphinx or pyramids as long as the Egyptian government won't allow it.

It's not really the government that won't allow it, it's that damned idiot Zahi Hawass, maybe once he kicks the bucket, then things will change for the better, at this point he's got way to much power.

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#133    cormac mac airt

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 09:14 PM

View Postmlauzon, on 23 December 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

It's not really the government that won't allow it, it's that damned idiot Zahi Hawass, maybe once he kicks the bucket, then things will change for the better, at this point he's got way to much power.

That argument's not remotely tenable since Zahi Hawass no longer holds the position he once did and hasn't for quite a while now.

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#134    mlauzon

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 09:24 PM

He may not 'hold the position' as you say, but he's still got to much power & influence, I see things maybe changing once he dies.

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#135    cladking

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 09:48 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 23 December 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

Not even close to being impossible. And I would probably dispute your number of 55 HP being needed.

By all means do it then.  Show us how they could lift 6 1/2 million tons af stone
to an average 150' or so without using 55 HP over 20 years.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.




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