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Secret Caves under the Pyramids


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#661    samspade

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:41 PM

View Postcladking, on 21 February 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:

I just don't know understand how much evidence people need.  There is repotedly carbonated water under
the plateau and Temple says this is percolating.

hi clad,

we seen robert temple flaw logic in claims of 3 giza kings of the great pyramids being buried absolute 100 percent being there without providing any evidence to prove that to be a fact, and actually he mentions a 4th king being buried there as well.

clearly with the giza plateau and its limestone and sea life that was once there, one is surely expected to see minerals in the water, but all that sewage water that been reported around and under the sphinx.

i think robert temple isnt telling people about the all that sewage water around and under the sphinx that was doing so much damage and the effects it could have.

can you supply a link for robert temple claim its percolating,im surprise he didnt take a sample to test, or perhaps he knew it was polluted waters, i like to read and see if i can find more flaws in his statements.

Edited by samspade, 21 February 2013 - 11:59 PM.


#662    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:05 AM

View PostDingoLingo, on 17 December 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

I would be more inclined to believe in a older civilization then aliens building the pyramids..


Ancient Aliens.. sorry.. I honestly feel the people who believe that pap.. have no faith in there own ancestors

You consider AA to be pap? interesting.

In our galaxy, our solar system and planet earth of course, are realtively young. There surely are solar systems that are 5 billion years older than ours, -
that is not million, it's 'B'-illion with a B.

With that said, any planet hosting intelligent life in this galaxy of 300 billion stars will soon realise with some exacting timeframe, that either their own star or a neighboring star will soon go supernova. That spells death for everyone on their planet. It will become essential to scour the galaxy looking for another host planet to live on. "Survival of the species" is the most important thing to any species. I am sure that this scenerio is more than idle speculation.

With that said, I would think it reasonable that planet earth would have been visited many many times billions of years ago and beyond.
It's the logical path.

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#663    Fstop

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:18 AM

View Postcladking, on 18 December 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

Maybe the evidence isn't supposed to closely fit the facts.

*snip*  nevermind.

Edited by Fstop, 22 February 2013 - 12:19 AM.

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#664    cladking

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:41 AM

View Postsamspade, on 21 February 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

hi clad,

we seen robert temple flaw logic in claims of 3 giza kings of the great pyramids being buried absolute 100 percent being there without providing any evidence to prove that to be a fact, and actually he mentions a 4th king being buried there as well.

clearly with the giza plateau and its limestone and sea life that was once there, one is surely expected to see minerals in the water, but all that sewage water that been reported around and under the sphinx.

i think robert temple isnt telling people about the all that sewage water around and under the sphinx that was doing so much damage and the effects it could have.

can you supply a link for robert temple claim its percolating,im surprise he didnt take a sample to test, or perhaps he knew it was polluted waters, i like to read and see if i can find more flaws in his statements.

"A closeup of the very strange hole opening into the southern so-called ‘water drainage channel’ in the Sphinx Temple. The massive limestone block lying on top makes access and proper inspection of this channel difficult for anyone larger than a rodent, and although I know some people who might qualify for that description, I would not trust their judgement. The bizarre red, white, and yellow mineral encrustations here are puzzling, and I cannot explain them. I looked at them as closely as I could, and the more closely I looked the more puzzled I became. They seem to be bubbling up from something, with layers of encrustation being successively deposited on top of earlier layers. Perhaps the ‘efflux of Osiris’ is leaking upwards!
"

http://www.egyptiand...o/chapter7.html

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#665    cladking

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:47 AM

View Postsamspade, on 21 February 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

we seen robert temple flaw logic in claims of 3 giza kings of the great pyramids being buried absolute 100 percent being there without providing any evidence to prove that to be a fact, and actually he mentions a 4th king being buried there as well.

clearly with the giza plateau and its limestone and sea life that was once there, one is surely expected to see minerals in the water, but all that sewage water that been reported around and under the sphinx.

i think robert temple isnt telling people about the all that sewage water around and under the sphinx that was doing so much damage and the effects it could have.

can you supply a link for robert temple claim its percolating,im surprise he didnt take a sample to test, or perhaps he knew it was polluted waters, i like to read and see if i can find more flaws in his statements.

I don't support Robert Temple's conclusions but he is a clear thinker, good researcher, and
good writer.  I can recommend his work and just don't support all of his conclusions.  His new
book is "Egyptian Dawn" but I believe it's a couple years old now.  I don't know.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#666    DingoLingo

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:59 AM

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 22 February 2013 - 12:05 AM, said:

You consider AA to be pap? interesting.

In our galaxy, our solar system and planet earth of course, are realtively young. There surely are solar systems that are 5 billion years older than ours, -
that is not million, it's 'B'-illion with a B.

With that said, any planet hosting intelligent life in this galaxy of 300 billion stars will soon realise with some exacting timeframe, that either their own star or a neighboring star will soon go supernova. That spells death for everyone on their planet. It will become essential to scour the galaxy looking for another host planet to live on. "Survival of the species" is the most important thing to any species. I am sure that this scenerio is more than idle speculation.

With that said, I would think it reasonable that planet earth would have been visited many many times billions of years ago and beyond.
It's the logical path.

100 billion stars within our galaxy.. and so far 100 billion galaxies can be seen from earth..

yes I believe in life out there.. just do not believe it has been here.. there is no proof at all that they visited us in the past.. or are still visiting us..


really we are in the backwash of our own galaxy.. chances of intelligent life finding us.. are.. you could say.. extremely remote..

(Corrected a spelling mistake.. damn new keyboard)

Edited by DingoLingo, 22 February 2013 - 01:17 AM.


#667    Fstop

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:05 AM

View PostDingoLingo, on 22 February 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:


100 billion starts within our agalxy.. and so far 100 billion galaxies can be seen from earth..

yes I believe in life out there.. just do not believe it has been here.. there is no proof at all that they visited us in the past.. or are still visiting us..


really we are in the backwash of our own galaxy.. chances of intelligent life finding us.. are.. you could say.. extremely remote..

Everytime I go to Wal-mart my disbelief that we have ever been visited by ET is reinforced.  Seriously, why would an advanced race (one capable of interplanetary travel)  give a rat's fat a$$ about us.  we are galactic turds.

I believe is numerically likely there is other life out there.  I just can't imagine that they would ever be even remotely curious about us.  Get over your bad-selves people.

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#668    samspade

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:13 AM

View Postcladking, on 22 February 2013 - 12:41 AM, said:

"A closeup of the very strange hole opening into the southern so-called ‘water drainage channel’ in the Sphinx Temple. The massive limestone block lying on top makes access and proper inspection of this channel difficult for anyone larger than a rodent, and although I know some people who might qualify for that description, I would not trust their judgement. The bizarre red, white, and yellow mineral encrustations here are puzzling, and I cannot explain them. I looked at them as closely as I could, and the more closely I looked the more puzzled I became. They seem to be bubbling up from something, with layers of encrustation being successively deposited on top of earlier layers. Perhaps the ‘efflux of Osiris’ is leaking upwards!
"

well here mentions he cant explain them, but the white and red seem too be do be obivious since i know abit about what minerals and stuff known around the giza area.

i recall somewhere else red showing up.
the white crust is the salt after water makes contact.
the yellow is sewage in part if not all of it.  
im surprise he didnt mention any black with the soot and pollution and dirth and earth.

anyhow the other part he mentions perhaps :) ,
so he is  speculating and not claiming it to be 100 percent fact.

personally i think robert temple bringing attention to certain things is good,
like the sirius mystery and other things, its  good to point out certain things if others arent aware.

i just frown when people speculate, which in itself is a good tool,
but when they speculate and claim its 100 percent fact without giving proof to prove its true i have a hard problem with.


"Egyptian Dawn"   was released in 2010.

Edited by samspade, 22 February 2013 - 01:24 AM.


#669    cladking

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:23 AM

View Postsamspade, on 22 February 2013 - 01:13 AM, said:

well here mentions he cant explain them,  i think the red and white can be explain with minerals known around the area, i recall somewhere else red showing up. white crust is the salt after water makes contact. and the yellow is sewage in part if not all of it.  im surprise he didnt mention any black.
anyhow the other part he mentions perhaps :) so i wont bash him for that, still hes just speculating and not claiming it to be 100 percent fact.

I've never heard of a sewage geysaer and don't believe in them.  The only way something
extremely soluble like salt could possibly accumulate is if there is almost no water flow at all.
Temple implies he either saw or heard the water meaning salt is a near impossibility unless
the event is higly episodic and he just coincidentally happened to be there.  I don't believe
in coincidences either and this goes a hundred times over with anecdotal evidence.

You'll just have to take my word on it until an Egyptologist goes out there and does his job;
This is mostly calcium carbonate coming up from the carbonated water still existing under the
Giza Plateau.  Refusing to do basic science like sampling this ben ben stone or clearing the
caves doesn't make ramps more likely.  It makes it even more likely that their opinions are
wrong.

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#670    samspade

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:45 AM

View Postcladking, on 22 February 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

I've never heard of a sewage geysaer and don't believe in them.  The only way something
extremely soluble like salt could possibly accumulate is if there is almost no water flow at all.
Temple implies he either saw or heard the water meaning salt is a near impossibility unless
the event is higly episodic and he just coincidentally happened to be there.  I don't believe
in coincidences either and this goes a hundred times over with anecdotal evidence.

You'll just have to take my word on it until an Egyptologist goes out there and does his job;
This is mostly calcium carbonate coming up from the carbonated water still existing under the
Giza Plateau.  Refusing to do basic science like sampling this ben ben stone or clearing the
caves doesn't make ramps more likely.  It makes it even more likely that their opinions are
wrong.

i never hear of a sewage geyser, but that fact that sewage water was rising and causing damage under and around the sphinx is fact,
as reported by dr Hawass and scientists. And salt and water played a factor at damage under and around the sphinx, im surprise you were not aware of that but perhaps you forgot.

clearly with limestone coming in contact with water there will be some carbonated water, its simple chemistry when one understands the elements. i recall reading some pdf and the quarries and makeup and effects, you can search for it, its well known stuff.

as we seen again with robert  temple, he didnt know the basics and thats the problem. and he goes off and mentions that speculation about osiris which i know for most of egyptologists who would probably think he is crazy for making that suggest when one knows the sewage problem. i think most of them dont give him to much thought after he mentioning aliens in the sirius mystery, For me i like he brings certain information, and from there one can decide whether its good or bad.

Edited by samspade, 22 February 2013 - 02:09 AM.


#671    cladking

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 02:48 AM

View Postsamspade, on 22 February 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

i never hear of a sewage geyser, but that fact that sewage water was rising and causing damage under and around the sphinx is fact,
as reported by dr Hawass and scientists. And salt and water played a factor at damage under and around the sphinx, im surprise you were not aware of that but perhaps you forgot.

clearly with limestone coming in contact with water there will be some carbonated water, its simple chemistry when one understands the elements. i recall reading some pdf and the quarries and makeup and effects, you can search for it, its well known stuff.

as we seen again with robert  temple, he didnt know the basics and thats the problem. and he goes off and mentions that speculation about osiris which i know for most of egyptologists who would probably think he is crazy for making that suggest when one knows the sewage problem. i think most of them dont give him to much thought after he mentioning aliens in the sirius mystery, For me i like he brings certain information, and from there one can decide whether its good or bad.

A great deal of ground water and even ancient water in the world doesn't have CO2 in it.  I know
of no chemical process that would necessarily impart CO2 by limestone.  Most stone is quite stable
and while water will dissolve anything it can't dissolve CO2 unless it's present.

I believe we are dealing with two different water sources.  There's the dirty ground water and there
is ancient water flowing to the north that still has a lot of CO2 in it (like Perrier).  This water is crystal
clear and has been used as drinking water for centuries.  It is the water in the siris Shaft that the powers
that be can't be troubled to test.  I suspect this water is risising and pushing up the dirty ground water
above it.  Hawass' pumping this water out from the Shinx area has allowed the ancient water to take its
place and now it is percolating up creating a ben ben stone.

This is the most logical explanation for all the evidence.  As time goes on geysers will continue to make
accurate predictions and explain news events.  Ramps are debunked.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#672    kmt_sesh

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 02:55 AM

View Postcladking, on 21 February 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

...

Another thing I don't know is why the powers that be won't simply prove me wrong and be done with it.
The argument that they aren't even aware of it holds no water since Hawass referred to the theory in 2009
yet never did a little simple testing to prove it wrong.  What I don't know is why there is so much resistance
to a simple crackpot idea that fits the evidence.  There's more and more evidence to support this every day
and now that many peoiple are looking for evidence of water it just comes flooding in faster and faster.

This theory is going to stand of time even though it is far-fetched.

You've kind of answered your own question, although I don't like to refer to people I know as crackpots. The world of academia is unlikely ever to take the world of the fringe seriously, for the simple reason that fringe arguments are not realistic and do not adhere to evidence or research protocols. When someone writes something based entirely on his opinion and presents ideas that are not vetted or peer-reviewed by anyone but the writer who came up with the ideas in the first place, said ideas are not reliable. It's that simple. It's unlikely to change anytime soon.

Some professional researchers have commented on specific fringe ideas but only to show how far off the mark these ideas are. For the most part, professional researchers are incredibly busy in their own work and have very tight budgets, thus little time or desire or need to take the fringe seriously. I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm merely stating how it is.

You're taking it a bit far by saying Hawass commented on your geyser theme. Chances are Hawass and most (or all) other Egyptologists have no idea it exists because so few of these people have the time or desire to visit internet message boards. I know of only a scant handful of exceptions. Hawass was more likely commenting on the standard fare of internet nuttiness like the websites put up by Graham Hancock, Erich von Döniken, Zecharia Sitchin, J.A. West, et al.

Moreover, there are certain realities you have to understand. First, the Great Pyramid is not the only interest in the study of ancient Egypt. In fact, most Egyptologists don't even include it in their own specialties of study. This was an incredibly long-lived civilization, and the Great Pyramid represents but one tiny point in time in that civilization. As interesting as the Old Kingdom is, the later periods like the New Kingdom were fundamentally more important in the development and progress of the civilization. As it is in current research, it's rare that an Egyptologist would even study the Great Pyramid and nothing more. As with the work of the GPMP, research is more useful and purposeful when it incorporates the larger view—hence, current research would focus not just on the Great Pyramid but on Giza as a whole. It might irritate you, cladking, but exactly how the Great Pyramid was built is not fundamentally important to our fuller understanding of the Egyptian civilization. The ancient Egyptians built a magnificent civilization and the Great Pyramid is only one tiny part of the whole.

As I understand the current situation, there is no professional historian studying just the Great Pyramid. Many other questions that remain unanswered are a lot more important for us to answer.

Second, and the last point I'll make, the current political situation also is a huge factor nowadays. The toppling of the Mubarak regime and the election of the Muslim Brotherhood into power, has created all sorts of issues and problems for archaeologists and historians working in Egypt. Excavations and research still go on, of course, and in fact a very important Dynasty 19 tomb was only recently discovered. But as a whole the pace of research within Egypt has significantly slowed because of the political situation. Egypt is still unstable. Uprisings and protests still occur every month. It seems to be a tendency of Middle Easterners to toss out one despot and replace him with another, so it's going to be awhile—how long, no one can say—before the former pace of excavations and research resumes.

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#673    kmt_sesh

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 03:11 AM

View Postcladking, on 22 February 2013 - 12:41 AM, said:

"A closeup of the very strange hole opening into the southern so-called ‘water drainage channel’ in the Sphinx Temple. The massive limestone block lying on top makes access and proper inspection of this channel difficult for anyone larger than a rodent, and although I know some people who might qualify for that description, I would not trust their judgement. The bizarre red, white, and yellow mineral encrustations here are puzzling, and I cannot explain them. I looked at them as closely as I could, and the more closely I looked the more puzzled I became. They seem to be bubbling up from something, with layers of encrustation being successively deposited on top of earlier layers. Perhaps the ‘efflux of Osiris’ is leaking upwards!
"

http://www.egyptiand...o/chapter7.html

There are a couple of problems here. First, you're relying an awful lot on Robert Temple. I'm aware of the other discussion involving his "theory" with a dead Dynasty 4 king buried in practically every  crevice and depression near one of his imagined "cable channels." I didn't have time to take part in that discussion and see that it's already grown a bit stale, and at the moment I have no desire to resurrect it. But I did watch the entire video. I really enjoyed the photos but Temple is not exactly an adroit researcher. He's one of those who likes to try to force the evidence to fit his ideas, which is the failing of pretty much all fringe writers. Indeed, I've noticed where you yourself have called him to task about his conclusions in that discussion, so it seems a bit too convenient for you to be jumping on his bandwagon just because you like the lump of mysterious crud he photographed.

And second, about that crud-lump: doesn't it strike you as odd that he and his merry band were dancing around the Plateau and taking samples of this and that and the other, but he took no samples of the crud-lump? Much ado about nothing, perhaps? We have no idea what the crud-lump might be. As others have stated, it might merely be the remains of a stump, hence the shaft of log evident in the masonry behind it. Or it might be an accretion. Who knows? The point is, don't wed yourself to something about which no one knows anything. It might very well come back to bite you.

Temple's conclusions in general were grossly in error and his video was packed with misinformation and disinformation. He seems to want his viewers to think that he's studied the temple more carefully than anyone before and that archaeologists have never seen the things he was pointing out. Come now, do you (or anyone else for that matter) honestly believe he's right?

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#674    cladking

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 03:21 AM

Quote

It's unlikely to change anytime soon.


Dr Hawass specifically referred to "other unscientific theories on the net".  This implies he was aware
of the theories on the net.

Until there is publkic pressure to do the science that should have been done 50 yearsa ago
it is unlikely anything will chjange.

I am very sensitive to the difficulties in Egypt and wish the people all the best but this has been
going on (or not going on) for half a century now.  At some point there aren't any more excuses
and action is required.  I'm also aware the new administration there has barely had time to unpack
their bags but this will very soon be their failure as well if they continue not to act.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#675    samspade

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 03:25 AM

View Postcladking, on 22 February 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

I believe we are dealing with two different water sources.  There's the dirty ground water and there
is ancient water flowing to the north that still has a lot of CO2 in it (like Perrier).  This water is crystal
clear and has been used as drinking water for centuries.  It is the water in the siris Shaft that the powers
that be can't be troubled to test.  I suspect this water is risising and pushing up the dirty ground water
above it.  .

the problem is the sewage water has been around for soo many years flowing into the area, and recent years even worst with a canal with sewage leakage as well flowing into the area from I believe  it was 10km away.

the fact the polluted water is all around the the sphinx and area, and the salt problem causing damage to the sphinx. also water seeping into ground, surely one would expect if c02 was present, the CL  from salt and water and c02 would mix abit to create a acid solution - i think certainly the water would have a acidity to it.

Edited by samspade, 22 February 2013 - 03:30 AM.





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