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Secret Caves under the Pyramids


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#706    samspade

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:32 PM

View Postcladking, on 26 February 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

And if you followed
that new ben ben stone back to its origin it would come out in one of the many caves still under
the plateau.
based on its contents, i would not call it a ben ben stone. the water around and under the sphinx
was mixed with that sewage waters from humans.

ancient egyptians clearly would not of wanted that symbolism.

my theory of it being a  drainage conduit leading into the  spinx temple is what is happening there.

if they did find a geyser by some miracle somewhere far away,
it will not affect my theory on the use of it  being a drainage conduit leadin into the sphinx temple.
.

Edited by samspade, 26 February 2013 - 10:33 PM.


#707    shrooma

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:46 PM

View Postdontworryaboutit, on 26 February 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

(sounds like someone was having way too much fun eating the mushrooms back in the day)
.
(that'll be me.....)
;-)

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#708    DieChecker

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:10 PM

View Postcladking, on 26 February 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

This number looks reasonable.  I'm still working on their schedule but I believe they worked only ten hour days (or less) for about nine months per year.  This schedule probably varied a little over the course of the project with longer days during the middle sections when water storage was impossible. They had ten day "weeks" with the first day (probably) given over to equipment maintenance only.  There were numerous holidays with two weeks out of three having at least one holiday.
Out of curiosity, how did you come up with those numbers? The PT?

Quote

100 metric tons per hour would be easily maintained with two counterweights in operation so long as they had the ballast.  These were just the main counterweights overseen by Isis and serket but there were additional counterweights on the cliff face to keep these supplied and probably an auxiallary counterweight for supplies and personnel.
All these years and I'm still surprised that you have never really come to understand counterweights. You would not even need the equivalent weight in water, because you could have stones in the counterweights that would be pulled back up with your "boats". All you would need is teams to pull the counterweights back up. The limit on how heavy the counterweights would be is limited by the ability of the pull-back-up team.

I still think it is fantasy however, because the Egyptians did not have a material that would last for even a couple dozen pulls up the pyramid, much less hundreds of thousands, or millions, of pulls. Bronze, wood, leather, skins, reeds, clay.... all would have quickly been insufficient to provide the surface sliding up the pyramid. Maintenance would not have been once a week, it would have been twice a day. The point is not that they could have known how to do it, or that they even had the technology required. The point is that they simply did not have the materials (Toughness, durability, strength) it would take to work on this scale for such a long time period. If they used counterweights, with systems of ropes, we'd see a dump in the old quarry full of rope, skins, wood and/or bronze, rather then a dump almost entirely of ramp-material in there.

Quote

This is why the cemetery is littered with titles related to water and handling water instead of ramps and stone dragging.
I thought it was just because the most valuable, hardest to get, high-class stone came down river. And thus required the more high class supervisors and noble involvment. Whereas the local stone needed no such specialists. It was simply quarried and dragged away.

Quote

They refuse to even see the five step pyramid that virtually proves beyond question that ramps were not used.  Instead they choose to see spiral ramps and their faith can't be
shaken even when the proof finally rolls in that they are not spiral ramps.  
People refuse to see the 5 step pyramid because the evidence does not support it. People believe in ramps because nothing else is as evidenced.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#709    cladking

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:29 PM

View Postdontworryaboutit, on 26 February 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

yes kmt_sesh more of a reader than writer lol. i only post when i feel like something needs to be said. while i do give Clad props for sticking to his beiliefs. his unwillingness to accept any evidence is something else for lack of a better word. i do praise the pateince that some forum members have shown trying to explain to him there beiliefs and evidence supporting them to just be meet with the same responses over and over. as soon by my first post into the topic i dont really share there pateince. i am one of an opened mind and do accepet that different people have different views on things (personally i cant stand religion, and from what you said in your posts sounds like someone was having way to much fun eating the mushrooms back in the day lol) but if thats what people want to beilieve and what makes them happy so be im not one to try and force my views apon them.

i do enjoy reading these forums but some of the members here have some great knowledge of subjects(as shown in this topic) and i dont feel i could really add to most discussions and would probably just sounds foolish to some memebers in trying to do so. I just really couldnt stand how civil you people had acted with him (from what i read, im sure someone could have blown up with him somewhere along the 30+ pages i didnt read through) his ignorance to the info presented in some posts that he himself quoted was amazing to me and i felt like i must say something

If there's ever been evidence that we speak a confused language...

People are blind to the truth.  The reality flies in the face of everything we believe and even what we sense.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#710    cladking

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:32 PM

View Postsamspade, on 26 February 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

based on its contents, i would not call it a ben ben stone. the water around and under the sphinx
was mixed with that sewage waters from humans.

ancient egyptians clearly would not of wanted that symbolism.

my theory of it being a  drainage conduit leading into the  spinx temple is what is happening there.

if they did find a geyser by some miracle somewhere far away,
it will not affect my theory on the use of it  being a drainage conduit leadin into the sphinx temple.
.

How can you say it's not a ben ben stone when you don't know what a ben ben stone is?

I know only because of the PT.  This is how I know the composition and ancient namwe of this structure.  If I'm wrong about it or the PT it's easy to prove.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#711    cladking

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:44 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 26 February 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

Out of curiosity, how did you come up with those numbers? The PT?

Yes.  ...With a little help from my friends the Egyptologists.  I haven't figured
out the math system yet but believe it's going to be an ordinal spherical system
unlike anything we have today.  We have spherical systems and my understanding
is there's even some playing around with ordinal math but so far as I know no one has
combined them.

Quote

All these years and I'm still surprised that you have never really come to understand counterweights. You would not even need the equivalent weight in water, because you could have stones in the counterweights that would be pulled back up with your "boats". All you would need is teams to pull the counterweights back up. The limit on how heavy the counterweights would be is limited by the ability of the pull-back-up team.


Yes! Certainly this would work.  But you do realize the teams pulling these counterweights
back up would lift the entire weight of the pyramid.  While this is way simpler and easier as
well as more efficient than ramps the builders said they did it another way;

1376a. The ropes are knotted; the boats of N. are tied together

I finally found the specific name for the counterweifght last night.  I already know some gen-
eral terms but the specific name appears to be the "dndndr-boat".  I haven't tried to follow the
derivation yet but generally fail at this usually. It might be something like "(the boat) that makes
things go up".

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#712    samspade

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:46 PM

View Postcladking, on 26 February 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

How can you say it's not a ben ben stone when you don't know what a ben ben stone is?

ancient egyptians knew what their ben ben stone was after the waters retreated but we have the mound,

therefore in no part should it contain unpure sewage elements  from water human sewage since humans were not around.

plus i very familar with the pyramid texts as you may know.

im sure you are recall my old talks about the ben ben stone in ancient egypt, so you claiming i dont know what it is puzzling unless you are trying to change its symbolism

are you creating  new meaning for "ben ben stone"   which changes the ancient egyptian view ?

Edited by samspade, 27 February 2013 - 12:01 AM.


#713    cladking

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:00 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 26 February 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

I still think it is fantasy however, because the Egyptians did not have a material that would last for even a couple dozen pulls up the pyramid, much less hundreds of thousands, or millions, of pulls. Bronze, wood, leather, skins, reeds, clay.... all would have quickly been insufficient to provide the surface sliding up the pyramid. Maintenance would not have been once a week, it would have been twice a day. The point is not that they could have known how to do it, or that they even had the technology required. The point is that they simply did not have the materials (Toughness, durability, strength) it would take to work on this scale for such a long time period. If they used counterweights, with systems of ropes, we'd see a dump in the old quarry full of rope, skins, wood and/or bronze, rather then a dump almost entirely of ramp-material in there.

There is a pretty detailed description of how to build these "boats of balance".  Suffice to say
they are merely wood framed with the "hull" on the inside which is mostly composed of "short
pieces of wood" and it is tarred.  It's a very simple device made of the materials they had in abun-
dance.  Metal parts could be salvaged when one wore out and the rest used for fuel with the
timbers repurposed for other structural members.  There was no waste in this culture.  People
were held responsible for their actions and the consequences of those actions.


Quote

thought it was just because the most valuable, hardest to get, high-class stone came down river. And thus required the more high class supervisors and noble involvment. Whereas the local stone needed no such specialists. It was simply quarried and dragged away.


No.  This doesn't work.  Bringing the stone to Giza was a tiny part of the overall project so
there should be almost no representation in the record except to the degree that water trans-
port was important to Egypt generally.  Instead "all" the jobs are related to water or could be.

Quote

People refuse to see the 5 step pyramid because the evidence does not support it. People believe in ramps because nothing else is as evidenced.

So, did you post at all when I debunked ramps or just pretend the post didn't exist?  I don't
remember but clearly remember most of the points weren't challenged at all.

Did you draw a five step pyramid on the gravimetric scan?  Of course not because it would
require effort and you're sure you see ramps.  Here's a little easaier way to prove it's five
steps.  Just cut a little piece of paper to measure the distance from a line to the edge of the
pyramid.  You can clearly see that these lines are parallel!!!!!!!  This proves by definition it
can't possibly be ramps and are almost positively steps.

You can see the five steps on Imhotep's mastaba misnamed Djoser's.

Why do you think the owners of the gravimetric scan specifically forbid me to post a picture
with the five steps drawn in?  They simply don't want it widely known that it's a step pyramid.

Just look at it. It is obviuously a five step pyramid. Make a copy because they'll start removing
it from the web next.  There are so many unauthorized pictures but they can delete these one
at a time.  Believe what you want but it's still clearly a 6 1/2 million ton five step pyramid and all
the wishing in the world will have no effect.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#714    Everdred

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:15 AM

View Postcladking, on 27 February 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

Why do you think the owners of the gravimetric scan specifically forbid me to post a picture
with the five steps drawn in?  They simply don't want it widely known that it's a step pyramid.

What exactly have they done to stop you?


#715    cormac mac airt

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:22 AM

View Postcladking, on 27 February 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

There is a pretty detailed description of how to build these "boats of balance".  Suffice to say
they are merely wood framed with the "hull" on the inside which is mostly composed of "short
pieces of wood" and it is tarred.  It's a very simple device made of the materials they had in abun-
dance.  Metal parts could be salvaged when one wore out and the rest used for fuel with the
timbers repurposed for other structural members.  There was no waste in this culture.  People
were held responsible for their actions and the consequences of those actions.




No.  This doesn't work.  Bringing the stone to Giza was a tiny part of the overall project so
there should be almost no representation in the record except to the degree that water trans-
port was important to Egypt generally.  Instead "all" the jobs are related to water or could be.



So, did you post at all when I debunked ramps or just pretend the post didn't exist?  I don't
remember but clearly remember most of the points weren't challenged at all.

Did you draw a five step pyramid on the gravimetric scan?  Of course not because it would
require effort and you're sure you see ramps.  Here's a little easaier way to prove it's five
steps.  Just cut a little piece of paper to measure the distance from a line to the edge of the
pyramid.  You can clearly see that these lines are parallel!!!!!!!  This proves by definition it
can't possibly be ramps and are almost positively steps.

You can see the five steps on Imhotep's mastaba misnamed Djoser's.

Why do you think the owners of the gravimetric scan specifically forbid me to post a picture
with the five steps drawn in?  They simply don't want it widely known that it's a step pyramid.

Just look at it. It is obviuously a five step pyramid. Make a copy because they'll start removing
it from the web next.  There are so many unauthorized pictures but they can delete these one
at a time.  Believe what you want but it's still clearly a 6 1/2 million ton five step pyramid and all
the wishing in the world will have no effect.

They forbid ANYONE from altering their images. They didn't single you out as frankly you're not all that important. Another case of letting your ego get in the way of the facts.

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#716    cladking

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:38 AM

View Postsamspade, on 26 February 2013 - 11:46 PM, said:

ancient egyptians knew what their ben ben stone was after the waters retreated but we have the mound,

therefore in no part should it contain unpure sewage elements  from water human sewage since humans were not around.

plus i very familar with the pyramid texts as you may know.

im sure you are recall my old talks about the ben ben stone in ancient egypt, so you claiming i dont know what it is puzzling unless you are trying to change its symbolism

are you creating  new meaning for "ben ben stone"   which changes the ancient egyptian view ?

View Postsamspade, on 26 February 2013 - 11:46 PM, said:

ancient egyptians knew what their ben ben stone was after the waters retreated but we have the mound,

therefore in no part should it contain unpure sewage elements  from water human sewage since humans were not around.

plus i very familar with the pyramid texts as you may know.

im sure you are recall my old talks about the ben ben stone in ancient egypt, so you claiming i dont know what it is puzzling unless you are trying to change its symbolism

are you creating  new meaning for "ben ben stone"   which changes the ancient egyptian view ?

I'm saying no two Egyptologists agree on the meaning of the ben ben stone or the primeval
mound.  Just like all the sceptres and all the icons there is no agreement about what they mean.
This says no one really knows what any of this is.  Many people have theories about one thing
or another but no on has been able to demonstrate that his theory is correct and this is tanta-
mount to saying we don't know what the ben ben stone is.  We have no surviving examples to
the best of our knowledge.

What I'm saying is that if this thing groqwing in the teple is exactly what OI say it is (and I "know"
it is) then that would be both proof of my theory and would tell us what the bebn ben stone was
and what it looked like.

The time for words is past and words is all anyone has even after ramps have been debunked.
They have words to say but no facts to back it up.  i'm not asking anyone to take anything on
faith; I'm saying that human nature is to be curious about facts and evidence but it seems no one
cares any longer because they want to let others do their thinking for them.  If Egyptology won't
sample this and prove me wrong then it's because they are smarter and already know everything
just like Hawass said.

The problem with letting other people think for you who already know everything is that they can't
ever learn anything new and neither will you.

They are terrified of the truth and will not seek evidence that could overturn their beliefs.

We are on the doorstep of a new dark ages unless something changes.  It's impossible to have an
age of enlightenment when no one is thinking and simply coasting on the status quo.

People need to wake up and clear the cobwebs or we'll get exactly what we deserve.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#717    cladking

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:55 AM

View PostEverdred, on 27 February 2013 - 12:15 AM, said:

What exactly have they done to stop you?

I don't know how much more clear they can be;

"Copyright EDF free. Added drawings to the image not authorieed"

It used to say in tiny letters at the bottom of the page "permission to publish with overlays denied" or something like that.

I've specifically asked for permission to post the drawing in my hand of the five step pyramid but haven't recieved it.  Each person who cares has to draw his own.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#718    cladking

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:58 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 27 February 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

They forbid ANYONE from altering their images. They didn't single you out as frankly you're not all that important. Another case of letting your ego get in the way of the facts.

Of course I'm not important and I'm not only person who can see the five step pyramid though
I might be the first person to find it. Probably not, though, because overlays were forbidden even
before I found it and made it widely known.

There are no ramps.  Ramps are not consistent with logic, common sense, or caves.  They most
assuredly are not consistent with five step pyramids.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#719    samspade

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:09 AM

[

View Postcladking, on 27 February 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

I'm saying no two Egyptologists agree on the meaning of the ben ben stone or the primeval
mound.  Just like all the sceptres and all the icons there is no agreement about what they mean.
This says no one really knows what any of this is.  Many people have theories about one thing
or another but no on has been able to demonstrate that his theory is correct and this is tanta-
mount to saying we don't know what the ben ben stone is.  We have no surviving examples to
the best of our knowledge.

What I'm saying is that if this thing groqwing in the teple is exactly what OI say it is (and I "know"
it is) then that would be both proof of my theory and would tell us what the bebn ben stone was
and what it looked like.

lol ok now you mention your speculating on a number on things.

clearly i stick with my  theory about mound symbolism and the drainage conduit draining fluid into the sphinx temple, it wont be disproven when one understands the nature of annual floods and rainwater.

with the evidence i gave, it seems more probable than to design something  you are suggesting.
i doubt they intended to grow what you call benben stone in the temple.

i only mention my opinion before on this thread strictly for fun.

the only reason i posted during this thread.
because you were abit vague about robert temple comments which i find to be misleading.

but you can believe in what ever you wish clad.

Edited by samspade, 27 February 2013 - 02:21 AM.


#720    cladking

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:21 AM

View Postsamspade, on 27 February 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

[


lol ok now you mention your speculating on a number on things.

clearly i stick with my  theory about mound symbolism and the drainage conduit draining fluid into the sphinx temple.

with the evidence i gave, it seems more probable than to design something else, i doubt they intended to grow what you call benben stone in the temple.

i only mention my opinion before on this thread strictly for fun.

the only reason i posted during this thread.
because you were abit vague about robert temple comments which i find to be misleading.

but you can believe in what ever you wish clad.

I don't know anything.  I don't believe anything.

This is why they should be doing the basic testing; no one knows anything.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I am saying that you don't know you're right.

There should be outrage that they won't do this stuff but instead their inaction is usually defended and excused.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.




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