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Secret Caves under the Pyramids

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:03 AM

dreamland, on 28 February 2013 - 03:09 AM, said:

These ideasare always interesting and some of them are actually possibilities.  Most are more
efficient than ramps and make more sense. However, I doubt any such means was used because
of the extreme amount of work required and evidence. This particular idea needs a little work to
show how they moved the stones laterally after lifting them.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:08 AM

DieChecker, on 28 February 2013 - 04:03 AM, said:

The black lines are simply where the arbitrary density ranges selected pass into the next range catagory. They could imply physical structures, but the density on each side of the line CAN NOT be ignored.

Y

DieChecker, on 28 February 2013 - 04:03 AM, said:

The black lines are simply where the arbitrary density ranges selected pass into the next range catagory. They could imply physical structures, but the density on each side of the line CAN NOT be ignored.

The only parallel lines I found on the scan were very short lines and lines at the base.

Is it illegal to take the drawing and make a rough copy to illustrate a point? I think only that exact image is Copyrighted. If I have time this weekend, I will take some copy paper and a graph pad and see what I can make of it.

My point is still firm that most of the lines I drew showed an inward angling in a counterclockwise fashion.

You're still missing my very simple point.  Yes, there are regions of densities.  Look
at the line defined by these regions and most are straight lines that are parallel to the
base.  It is impossible for a ramp to be parallel to the base and it is impossible for a
spiral ramp to leave region that are parallel to the base where they ajoin.

It is strictly impossible that the most of these lines describe a ramp.  They do appear
to describe a five step pyramid.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:12 AM

jaylemurph, on 28 February 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

"Don't mention the war! (I mentioned once, but I think I got away with it.)"
Basil Fawlty

"Hello?... Ah, yes Mr O'Reilly, well it's perfectly simple. When I asked you to build me a wall I was rather hoping that instead of just dumping the bricks in a pile you might have found time to cement them together... you know, one on top of another, in the traditional fashion."  -Basil Fawlty

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#739 DieChecker

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:47 AM

cormac mac airt, on 28 February 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

DieChecker, are you just looking at the top-down picture of the densitogram or have you also seen the 3d view of all four sides? The latter puts it into better perspective and negates a 5 step layout IMO.

cormac

Yeah I've seen it. I'm just trying to talk with Clad inside the datapoints he will accept, and trying to show that he's ignoring valuable data.

One point at a time....

Plus discussion with him is highly entertaining.

Edited by DieChecker, 28 February 2013 - 05:48 AM.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#740 DieChecker

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:15 AM

cladking, on 28 February 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:

1376a. The ropes are knotted; the boats of N. are tied together

1966a. Then let this copper be brought ------ the ḥnw-boat --- with it.

"Overseer of the Boats of Neith"

"Overseer of Canal"

1078a. To say: The door of heaven is open, the door of earth is open, ... The m3'-canal is opened

"Weigher/ Reckoner"

Horapollo; the ancients believed water sprayed from the earth.

http://www.wikimapia...14&z=19&l=0&m=s

692c. He is effervescent; he is effervescent; Shu, let thy arms be about N.

"... ... ... ... ... and running with a steady fall to the nearest point of the cliff edge, it seems exactly as if intended for a drain; the more so as there is plainly a good deal of water-weanng at a point where it falls sharply, at its enlargement."

Carbonated water in the Osiris Shaft.  Warrm springs a few miles off.

455b. filled with thy splendour, come forth from the horizon,
455c. after thou hast taken possession of the white crown in the water-springs, great and mighty, which are in the south of Libya,

Five step pyramids.

Secret Caves Under the Pyramid.

No.  What doesn't exist is any evidence  at all that they used ramps to lift stones.  What does
exist is that every single piece of evidence including the entire Egyptian culture says they used
"balance" achieved by water to "lift the earth".
Nothing in that actually provides proof of anything other then a canal.

It actually supports better my idea that boats (knotted together) brought stones from the South (The Horizon) and was so important that Noble Overseers were needed.

cladking, on 28 February 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

Feeding an army of stone draggers for one day would pay for the wood they needed for one year.

There is no ramp at the pyramid base.  what is at the pyramid base is a 15 acre water collection device that was actually used.
I seriously doubt that 10,000 mens worth of food (say 50,000 lbs of wheat), cost the same as several hundreds of hardwood logs (say 500). I believe there is a record of sales of grains to Lebenon in the tens of thousands of pounds for only a couple logs. One day of logs probably would have cost as much as a month of laborer pay. I think you have that backward.

cladking, on 28 February 2013 - 05:08 AM, said:

You're still missing my very simple point.  Yes, there are regions of densities.  Look at the line defined by these regions and most are straight lines that are parallel to the base.  It is impossible for a ramp to be parallel to the base and it is impossible for a spiral ramp to leave region that are parallel to the base where they ajoin.

It is strictly impossible that the most of these lines describe a ramp.  They do appear
to describe a five step pyramid.

I have to disagree, only by drawing a line from the inside of one end of a black line to the outside edge of the other end of the wide black line, could you possibly have anything that looks parallel. Draw your lines again and actually measure where they hit on both sides of the image. Few of the lines are parallel.

If by most lines, you mean very short lines, that are not long enough to actually be meaningful, then yeah, perhaps you are technically correct, while purposefully misrepresenting data.

That you consider it impossible just shows you actually are NOT impartial, and actually are the "closed mind" in this discussion.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#741 cormac mac airt

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:49 AM

DieChecker, on 28 February 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

Yeah I've seen it. I'm just trying to talk with Clad inside the datapoints he will accept, and trying to show that he's ignoring valuable data.

One point at a time....

Plus discussion with him is highly entertaining.

No problem. Just thought I'd save you the trouble with the graph paper as I've plotted out the points from the densitogram as best I could using the 3DVIA Shape program. It's from the same company that Houdin did his internal ramp work with. This is what I came up with:

The short barbell looking bits are where the alleged 5 steps are supposed to be. But the damn densitogram points keep missing them.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#742 DieChecker

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:23 AM

cormac mac airt, on 28 February 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

No problem. Just thought I'd save you the trouble with the graph paper as I've plotted out the points from the densitogram as best I could using the 3DVIA Shape program. It's from the same company that Houdin did his internal ramp work with. This is what I came up with:

My 5 Step Pyramid.jpg

The short barbell looking bits are where the alleged 5 steps are supposed to be. But the damn densitogram points keep missing them.

cormac
COOL!!!

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#743 TwilightSilver

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:03 AM

I'm just going to add my tired two cents on the supposed "alien" in the OP's post. Why would an ancient civilization such as Egypt put the "alien/God" all the way at the bottom of the carvings? If the Ancient Alien theory would be true, wouldn't they have regarded them as gods and put them above themselves? Especially if they were supposedly the driving force behind the creation of these tunnels, the pyramids, the Sphinx and such? It doesn't make much sense to me. I believe it's man's own ingenious that led to such phenomenal architecture. I have yet tosee otherwise.

"I'm struggling to say what I want to... but you hurt my brain so much with your nonsense..."

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#744 third_eye

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:49 PM

cormac mac airt, on 28 February 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

No problem. Just thought I'd save you the trouble with the graph paper as I've plotted out the points from the densitogram as best I could using the 3DVIA Shape program. It's from the same company that Houdin did his internal ramp work with. This is what I came up with:

My 5 Step Pyramid.jpg

The short barbell looking bits are where the alleged 5 steps are supposed to be. But the damn densitogram points keep missing them.

cormac

Maybe I'm not reading the graph right Sir cormac, but I can't find a back path / return path back to ground level, it's a one way rise to the top, logistics would require a two way at least if not multi path around the build area considering the work schedule that requires different aspects of stonework laying and fitting to be done concurrently.

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#745 cormac mac airt

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:56 PM

third_eye, on 28 February 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

Maybe I'm not reading the graph right Sir cormac, but I can't find a back path / return path back to ground level, it's a one way rise to the top, logistics would require a two way at least if not multi path around the build area considering the work schedule that requires different aspects of stonework laying and fitting to be done concurrently.

As laid out the pyramid I plotted the points on is showing top as east, which makes north and south left and right respectively. It's from the north and south (left and right mid to upper corners) that they would have fed the blocks up the pyramid IMO. By the time one gets a bit over half way up two lines of movement wouldn't be necessary as there isn't as much room to maneuver for both. One line, sufficiently wide enough for returning traffic would be plenty. In any case, as shown the alleged "5 steps" don't appear to be relevant to the actual layout of the densitogram.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:59 PM

cormac mac airt, on 28 February 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

No problem. Just thought I'd save you the trouble with the graph paper as I've plotted out the points from the densitogram as best I could using the 3DVIA Shape program. It's from the same company that Houdin did his internal ramp work with. This is what I came up with:

The short barbell looking bits are where the alleged 5 steps are supposed to be. But the damn densitogram points keep missing them.

Great!  You're half way to having a step pyramid.  Before we go anywhere please note
that the majority of these lines are parallelto the base and disprove that they are associated
or could be associated with spiral ramps.

Now, get rid of all those short lines near the corners that don't exist at all on the gravimetric
scan.  They confuse the image.  Then get rid of the extremely steep lines that are probably
unrelated to either ramps or five step pyramids.  These allrepresent relatively subtle density
differences anyway and might diasappear at a different gain.  They confuse the issue as well.

What you're left with is mostly parallel lines that describe a five step pyramid.  Yes, I'm aware
that most of the lines are missing but each step is defined and some are exceedingly well de-
fined.

There are ramp looking configurations at the bottom.  These look so much like ramps it's a
virtual certainty that they were (sortta) used as ramps.  Remember that this looks into the struc-
ture only about eight to ten meters at the bottom so we are only seeing the outside and in most
places can't even see all the way to the first step.  It is unlikely that these ramps were used by
teams of men to drag stones up the pyramid.  It is more likely that as they were finishing up in
the very last phase, cladding the bottom step, that they had significant amounts of excess water
so they employed it to lift stones to a greater altitude than necessary and then using manpower,
animal power, or counterweights they dragged the stones DOWN these "ramps" to complete the
cladding.  Until they get out there and get us the data we need we can't be sure of anything at
all except that ramps are debunked and that it's a five step pyramid.  These two pieces of know-
ledge go hand in hand and are highly consistent with logic and the physical evidence.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#747 third_eye

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:00 PM

cormac mac airt, on 28 February 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

As laid out the pyramid I plotted the points on is showing top as east, which makes north and south left and right respectively. It's from the north and south (left and right mid to upper corners) that they would have fed the blocks up the pyramid IMO. By the time one gets a bit over half way up two lines of movement wouldn't be necessary as there isn't as much room to maneuver for both. One line, sufficiently wide enough for returning traffic would be plenty. In any case, as shown the alleged "5 steps" don't appear to be relevant to the actual layout of the densitogram.

cormac

Thanks Sir cormac, from what I've gathered so far, the problem of work traffic need a good sort through, that's a massive workforce that is being proposed so far currently

~edit : post bumped

Edited by third_eye, 28 February 2013 - 04:01 PM.

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:04 PM

DieChecker, on 28 February 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

I seriously doubt that 10,000 mens worth of food (say 50,000 lbs of wheat), cost the same as several hundreds of hardwood logs (say 500). I believe there is a record of sales of grains to Lebenon in the tens of thousands of pounds for only a couple logs. One day of logs probably would have cost as much as a month of laborer pay. I think you have that backward.

Let's see 100,000 men times 200 days > the wear imparted to six imported cedar logs from Byblos per year.

Right.

And men dragging stones up ramps can eat radishes and onions all day.

...And the queen said let them drink sand (even as a 15 acre water collection device sat all around the work)

Orthodox opinion needs to get real.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#749 cormac mac airt

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:09 PM

cladking, on 28 February 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

Great!  You're half way to having a step pyramid.  Before we go anywhere please note
that the majority of these lines are parallelto the base and disprove that they are associated
or could be associated with spiral ramps.

Now, get rid of all those short lines near the corners that don't exist at all on the gravimetric
scan.  They confuse the image.  Then get rid of the extremely steep lines that are probably
unrelated to either ramps or five step pyramids.
These allrepresent relatively subtle density
differences anyway and might diasappear at a different gain.  They confuse the issue as well.

What you're left with is mostly parallel lines that describe a five step pyramid. Yes, I'm aware
that most of the lines are missing but each step is defined and some are exceedingly well de-
fined.

There are ramp looking configurations at the bottom.  These look so much like ramps it's a
virtual certainty that they were (sortta) used as ramps.
Remember that this looks into the struc-
ture only about eight to ten meters at the bottom so we are only seeing the outside and in most
places can't even see all the way to the first step.  It is unlikely that these ramps were used by
teams of men to drag stones up the pyramid.  It is more likely that as they were finishing up in
the very last phase, cladding the bottom step, that they had significant amounts of excess water
so they employed it to lift stones to a greater altitude than necessary and then using manpower,
animal power, or counterweights they dragged the stones DOWN these "ramps" to complete the
cladding.  Until they get out there and get us the data we need we can't be sure of anything at
all except that ramps are debunked and that it's a five step pyramid.  These two pieces of know-
ledge go hand in hand and are highly consistent with logic and the physical evidence.

The short lines near the corners (barbells) are where your alleged 5 steps should fall. Your first fail.

Nope, take it as it's laid out. NOT as you want it to be.

What you're left with is a long, slow winding rise to the top. Counter-clockwise.

Amazing, you're not blind after all.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:20 PM

cladking, on 28 February 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Let's see 100,000 men times 200 days > (is greater than)  the wear imparted to six imported cedar logs from Byblos per year.

Maybe you'll remember this little gem;

445a. To say: O Hrti of Nsȝ.t, ferryman of the ’Iḳh.t-boat, made by Khnum,
445b. bring this (boat) to N. N. is Seker of R-Śtȝ.w.
445c. N. is on the way to the place of Seker, chief of Pdw-š.
445d. It is our brother who is bringing this (boat) for these bridge-girderers (?) of the desert.

"’Iḳh.t-boat" is the generic term for counterweight, I believe.

"R-Śtȝ.w" is "Mouth of Caves" where the great pyramid was built and the bridge girderers worked and didn't drink sand.

Pdw-š. is "Spread Lake" which is in the desert whjere they are bringing the boat.  Seker is "chief" of Spread Lake because it is he who "tows the earth by means of balance" so after he falls he creates a lake which spreads from where he is dumped from the counterweight (’Iḳh.t-boat).

Why would you possibly believe that they'd need so many of these boats that it would be cheaper to build it by dragging stonesup ramps?  Why would 150 square feet of greased surface area supporting twenty tons wear at all?  If it did wear too much do you really believe these people weren't smart enough to increase the surface area?  Why must they have been stupid?

I've done everything but put a nice little bow on this and the powers that be won't even respond.  Do you really not see a problem here?  How can all the evidence fit and the powers that be stop even talking as they wait for me to fashion a nice little bow and put it all on a silver platter?  If I were  most people I'd just have anbnounced "case closed" a long time ago and take the same risk as the 19th century scientiists who announced "they mustta used ramps".  The difference, of course being ALL the evidence supports geysers just as doi the secret caves under the pyramids.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

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