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Secret Caves under the Pyramids


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#856    DieChecker

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:34 AM

View Postdreamland, on 05 March 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

I want to say something..we must find hidden messages left by the builders,for us to know the real truth,how they were build.I do believe, and i am sure that builders had to leave behind their secret knowledge..think about it...why there is a subterranean chamber under the pyramid...why there is a tunnel that goes under the great sphinx..and also one on top,why there is a secret notch in great pyramid.... why all of these? answer is simple..to find good place and  store their secret knowledge. We will eventaully find out where this secret knowledge is,,but only when we humans are ready for this. Take a look at this notch again.. the upper part of the pyramid is practically unknown. maybe there is some secret room,is there an entrance thru this notch? who knows..

Posted Image
The notch is certainly an interesting point for discussion. But, it does not go anywhere. It is just a small room.

I've never heard of a recognized tunnel heading under the Sphinx.

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#857    third_eye

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:54 AM

There is no 'one ramp' all the way to the top.

Think 'staggered' Think 'stages' Think 'schedule'

They're not only to get the stones up the levels, the stones needs to be fitted and pared to needs, every stone is individually unique don't forget. Means every single stone needs to be customized to its located fit. There would be multiple crews with multi tasks on every stone at it's final station. Less space also means less stones being fitted concurrently.

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#858    samspade

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:34 AM

View Postdreamland, on 05 March 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

Take a look at this notch again.. the upper part of the pyramid is practically unknown. maybe there is some secret room,is there an entrance thru this notch?

Jean Pierre Houdin talks about that notch and its part of his internal ramp theory.
He believes theres a long internal ramp that goes around and  up the great pyramid, i believe at a 7 degree angle,

Houdin got Bob Brier to go up  inside the notch, and at  the notch there was a hole and  Bob mentions it was like a ancient room.

here is link to national geographic video called "Unlocking the Great Pyramid"
http://channel.natio...-great-pyramid/

its a long video, because it talks about the internal ramp, but around the 36 minute mark he talks about the notch for few minutes.

Anyhow Houdin believes within that notch and so called ancient room there a stone block , which houdin believes is blocking a point where ther can get into the so called internal ramp.
houdin  based that belief based on the pictures  inside the notch and a 3d analysis of the great pyramid, he wants to get permission to run a test.

in another video jean pierre mentions he believes there are 2 more hidden chambers inside the great pyramid.

Edited by samspade, 06 March 2013 - 01:45 AM.


#859    third_eye

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:38 AM

if houdin is right it means close to 40% of the internal mass of the pyramid is passageways and the ramp

that also means the pyramid is 'almost half empty/hollow'

would've crashed in on itself long time ago...

~edit : dyslexia attack

Edited by third_eye, 06 March 2013 - 01:39 AM.

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#860    samspade

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:19 AM

View Postthird_eye, on 06 March 2013 - 01:38 AM, said:

if houdin is right it means close to 40% of the internal mass of the pyramid is passageways and the ramp
that also means the pyramid is 'almost half empty/hollow'
would've crashed in on itself long time ago...


houdin theory was very popluar and he is a artitect and bob brier the egyptologist like it,
i saw in a video they ran of stress tests about cracks in granite .

its quite possible he just didnt mention how it was supported in that video.,
i didnt rewatch the whole video, i just knew the notch was in there.
im sure houdin could provide information  on that  if you wish to   contact him.

houdin theory mentions also they also had a external ramp as well internal ramp,
he claims that the external ramp was used for most of the monument mass which was the bottom third of the pyramid. then they later in building they used the blocks of the external ramp.

Edited by samspade, 06 March 2013 - 02:37 AM.


#861    monk 56

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:27 AM

Hi Kmt_sesh,

As you mentioned me on your post of previous page, thread section #852, i would like to respond in a friendly way, anything Egyptian, you are "Top-Notch", and i agree that the philosophy and religion was open, secret societies follow a melting pot of different philosophies only loosely based on Egypt, obviously they did have a very strong religion, even romans started getting mummified when they invaded!

The largest influence of secret societies post Egypt has been Hermes Trismegistus who i doubt ever existed, but philosophy of religion isn't logical ha ha!

http://en.wikipedia....es_Trismegistus

When you mentioned Wallis Budge, you took me back some years to when i was a boy and on vacation/holiday, visiting Lyme Regis, well known for its fossils, i was fascinated, i also visited a musky smelling second hand book shop there, where i bought my first book on Egypt, it was a second edition Budge, Book of the Dead, i still have it.

I have often wondered how religion developed, and don't want to offend religious readers, but perhaps there is some truth in link below:-

http://www.religious...rg/chr_10cl.htm

Obviously unproven, but my interests are in philosophy and archaeoastronomy as you know, and i give mountains of my own research on that subject, so no problem with thesis!


#862    DieChecker

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:29 AM

View Postthird_eye, on 06 March 2013 - 01:38 AM, said:

would've crashed in on itself long time ago...
Yeah. I think in going on 5000 years some of these internal ramp tunnels would have collapsed and reveiled themselves by now. Not to mention that robbers would have opened them up looking for loot.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#863    samspade

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:54 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 06 March 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

Yeah. I think in going on 5000 years some of these internal ramp tunnels would have collapsed and reveiled themselves by now. Not to mention that robbers would have opened them up looking for loot.

well houdin could easily say they supported it in some fashion, or perhaps even fill some in,
well im open to the idea of a internal ramp but i wait for real proof of it.

houdin even suggests that tomb robbers that broke into the great pyramid
didnt get to those 2 hidden rooms  he claims to be there because
they did not find the correct entrance to the passageway.

Houdin spend years on his work.
clearly with time we will find out if his right or wrong.
i be open minded untill real evidence proves it one way or another.

heres a video where houdin talks about the tomb robbers  its near the end at the 54minute mark


in that video to they show the internal ramp with it having design almost a corbel style, which is a stronger design  but like we know  its a theory

Edited by samspade, 06 March 2013 - 03:40 AM.


#864    dreamland

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:00 AM

Edward Leedskalini who build coral castle knew the secrets of the pyramid,,,as i mention this many times in my posts. He left some clues,including the book about magnetic current,BUT he never told anyone how he did it. This means that secret knowledge must be important,and this is the same thing with pyramids in giza. I  believe that information is there,waiting to be discovered. Why i think there is a secret knowledge left by the builders: Well..answer this : why we had to use our technology in form of robot that went inside the shaft and drill a hole inside that door to see mysterious markings behind? why we had to use advanced technology to see it? Dont you think we should use more advanced technology now and locate a chamber or room in which is a secret knowledge? Chamber under the pyramid..a notch...unfinished tunnel under the  sphinx..these are all clues and perhaps a possible location of secret knowledge. Up to this point we just guess.. maybe aliens,maybe ramps,maybe orion connection... but there is not a single solid proof ! one side says this,and another that... who is right then? I really love talking about pyramids,share my own idea,watch videos...but i also would like to know the real truth about pyramids,....how they were really build, and for what purpose.

Edited by dreamland, 06 March 2013 - 03:04 AM.


#865    DieChecker

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:01 AM

View Postsamspade, on 06 March 2013 - 02:54 AM, said:

well houdin could easily say they supported it in some fashion, or perhaps even fill some in,
well im open to the idea of a internal ramp i wait for real proof of it.

houdin even suggests that those tomb robbers didnt get to those 2 hidden rooms  he claims to be there because they did find the correct entrance to the passsway.

its his theory, and man he spend years on his work.
clearly with time we will find out if his right or wrong.
i be open minded till real evidence proves it one way or another.
Filled them in is a good idea.

I'd agree with supporting the internal ramp architecturally, but even supurb limestone architecture tends to start collapsing in places after only 1000 years, much less 5000.

I'm still going to keep an open mind. It could be true, but in my own opinion I think there is no internal ramp. (Other then the Grand Gallery)

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#866    third_eye

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:15 AM

I think I just finished going through Houdin's site about May last year, there is a lot of things to go through, lots of great references on his site.

I like some of his ideas, but I'm not convinced of his claims.

Another thing about internal ramps is that it minimizes the traffic path making moving things much more difficult, limiting accessibility to too many areas, you can't readjust an internal ramp without moving a lot of the existing structure.

The AEs had no problems 'lifting' the stones high up with the resources they have. Their only problem faced is not having them fall back down.
You people has been looking at the 'mystery' from the wrong end.

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#867    TheSearcher

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:53 AM

I would assume they used a mix of both internal and external ramps, because one theory on it's own presents flaws. Whereas the two combined work out perfectly.

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#868    lakeview rud

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:37 PM

While the chamber beneath the pyramid is certainly not a secret cave I would think that it bears more investigation.  Let's get to the bottom of this.  Can we start by agreeing that the pyramid was built from the center out and from the bottom up(arguments about the casing stones not withstanding)?  If you look at the GP in cross section you will see that the descending passage at 26 degrees matches the ascending passage at 26 degrees and their intersection appears to start at 'ground level' in the hill the GP was built on.  Both passages are identical in cross section with the upper one appears to have once had wooden structures in it based on the holes or notches in the walls.  Theres a block up top of the ascending passage that showed evidence of being worn by something (rope?) but this has since been cosmetically "restored" by modern Egyptians. I'm going to propose that the very large blocks got up the GP this way.  If you could arrange some sort of counterweight system in the lower passage it would be relatively easy to use laborers to pulll blocks up since the 26 degree matching inclines would allow you to balance the weights except for the friction of what the block was riding on. This same system could then be used to lift sets of the smaller blocks up the side.  Don't get me wrong, I think the AE's used whatever process worked best depending on the level they were at so ramps, Wally Wallington-like devices etc all could have been used.  If you just replace Cladking's geysers with plain water carried by those same laborers there's plenty of counterweight material available.  The GP had plenty of planning...note that the final angle of the GP is darn close to twice the 26 degree angle (so the ascending passage was centered) and the location of the underground chamber is very close to the center of the pramid.  Still lots of unanswered questions but I'd love to see a computer simulation beginning from the center at ground level and going out and up.


#869    cladking

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:51 PM

View Postlakeview rud, on 06 March 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

While the chamber beneath the pyramid is certainly not a secret cave I would think that it bears more investigation.  Let's get to the bottom of this.  Can we start by agreeing that the pyramid was built from the center out and from the bottom up(arguments about the casing stones not withstanding)?  If you look at the GP in cross section you will see that the descending passage at 26 degrees matches the ascending passage at 26 degrees and their intersection appears to start at 'ground level' in the hill the GP was built on.  Both passages are identical in cross section with the upper one appears to have once had wooden structures in it based on the holes or notches in the walls.  Theres a block up top of the ascending passage that showed evidence of being worn by something (rope?) but this has since been cosmetically "restored" by modern Egyptians. I'm going to propose that the very large blocks got up the GP this way.  If you could arrange some sort of counterweight system in the lower passage it would be relatively easy to use laborers to pulll blocks up since the 26 degree matching inclines would allow you to balance the weights except for the friction of what the block was riding on. This same system could then be used to lift sets of the smaller blocks up the side.  Don't get me wrong, I think the AE's used whatever process worked best depending on the level they were at so ramps, Wally Wallington-like devices etc all could have been used.  If you just replace Cladking's geysers with plain water carried by those same laborers there's plenty of counterweight material available.  The GP had plenty of planning...note that the final angle of the GP is darn close to twice the 26 degree angle (so the ascending passage was centered) and the location of the underground chamber is very close to the center of the pramid.  Still lots of unanswered questions but I'd love to see a computer simulation beginning from the center at ground level and going out and up.

There are caves under the pyramid and there are caves in the Osiris Shaft and the Tomb
of the Birds.  There are likely many more not being investigated and I don't know to which
specific chamber you refer to whjen saying it's not a cave but you are probably correct. As
a rule chambers on the plateau are not also caves even though they might have begun as
caves.

I can not agree they would have built from the "inside out".  In almost all probability they began
on the side(s) opposite where the stones arrived on the pyramid top and worked toward where
they came up.  This would be necessary so that the built masonry didn't get in there way.  Some
deviation from this might be expected but as a rule they would have started on the edges un-
less stones came up all four edges and then it would be the corners and they'd work toward the
center.

It's not very likely they would use water as ballast unless they had a source at hand. Of course
it's possible but who'd have ever thought to haul water up from the Nile to build pyramids.  There's
another problem with hauling water up and that is between all the leakage in the "winding water-
course", evaporation, and other such losses there would be huge amounts of effort just to keep
the entire sysyem flooded.  The evidence says they did use water though so I believe the question
really boils down to what is the source of that water.

Of course they could have used other means in keeping with the actual evidence.  They could have
used sand for ballast or they could have just used muscle power by pulling the stones up one step
at a time.  I've never claimed this is a done deal merely that the evidence suggests ramps were not
used and stones were lifted in "stages".  The height of these stages could be caused by myriad and
simple things. Perhaps they simply couldn't lift stones higher than their longest ropes.  This would be
almost exactly in concordance with the evidence.  There's no proof of anything but digging for debunked
ramps has failed.

When I put stepped pyramids and water together I get a natural water source at 81' 3".  Your results
may vary.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#870    cladking

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 05:08 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 06 March 2013 - 12:27 AM, said:

I thought that was pretty clear. The ramp RESTED on the steps. And they placed blocks onto the steps as they went down... aligning the sides of the pyramid and cladding the sides. At least that is an idea I had, based on a step pyramid design.

You're on the right track but not taking it far enough.  Sure, they might have used switchback
ramps that took up exactly the width of the top step and this would be a neat match for the evidence.
If so it's a shame some don't show up near the top but these could have been dismantled in fin-
ishing operations.  But there are a few flies in the ointment here besides just the lack of other
evidence and the improbability of any sort of ramp.  Why would all the pyramids be five steps?
To make the number of switchbacks come out even some should be six steps.  Then you still have
the mother of all flies; how did they fillin these steps.  Sure they could have used some variation of
my method of pulling them up the side or from a remote location but once they learned this tech-
nique that was so much easier then why would they keep making ramps?  Indeed, pulling them up
the side starts getting almost difficult toward the end so switchback ramps would have them using
the most difficult method of lifting the bulk of the pyramid before switching to something that might
actually be a little harder for the last 10% of the work.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.




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