Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * - 1 votes

Spreckel Mansion Death/Suicide


  • Please log in to reply
343 replies to this topic

#211    Antilles

Antilles

    NCC-1701

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,274 posts
  • Joined:23 Jul 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:2nd star from the left

Posted 21 July 2013 - 11:44 AM

View PostDuncansmom, on 20 July 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

"Curious:  personally i do believe it was suicide, so far i have not read anything that points to a "forced entry" , i believe max's death made her even more depressed/suicide and it tipped her over the edge (much like how im personally feeling now to be honest!"

As I think I told you that is where I think I also am at with it.  However, ok, Regi, here it comes.  I am agreeing with a lot, OK? The posts Antilles and I both made regarding the sister's departure could really lean either way.  I do think it seems completed hastily.  

However, every time I get about there, I hit another snag....in that theory...."Forced entry" may not be a part of the scenario at all.  Multiple reports state that they were used to leaving their backdoor unlocked.  How about those that had keys and access?? Are they really all accounted for?  The balance of your post regarding the  similar autopsy has some interesting points.  Rebecca also had punctate injuries to her back in patterns at reoccurring distances.  What would have caused those?  The balcony rail, the stucco on the house, the tile floor of the balcony?  

I have been working on transcribing that audio from Nina, (Dina's sister) which is contained Regi's post on Pg. 2 of this thread. ....... Although Nina seems to be forthcoming I will be back with what I see in it that doesn't fit and IMO there are times Nina also seems to be diverting attention....

Wow, DM. It'll take me quite a few readings to make some sense of it but one point I notice. I think it was you who said the mansion doors weren't locked so anyone could wander in ?

Nina says the night Rebecca died, she looked in and saw lights. Something like that. Why wouldn't she have entered if the doors were unlocked?

Great job on the transcript.


#212    Antilles

Antilles

    NCC-1701

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,274 posts
  • Joined:23 Jul 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:2nd star from the left

Posted 21 July 2013 - 11:48 AM

Curious One (great nic) I believe Rebecca killed herself because of her involvement in Max's death. Now, that's not to say someone else didn't come along and move things around. How convenient to find her dead. It's a thought.


#213    CuriousLittleOne

CuriousLittleOne

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 423 posts
  • Joined:31 Mar 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:UK

Posted 21 July 2013 - 12:14 PM

ooh, i never looked at it that way Ant! (ha and when i first looked at the forum, i felt like a curiouslittleone! very innocent and demure LOL!!!!!)

Posted Image

#214    regi

regi

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,493 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 21 July 2013 - 03:02 PM

View PostDuncansmom, on 21 July 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

I got involved and worked on this most of this stormy day....
My document is attached.

Your effort is much appreciated! :nw:

Edited to add comment.

First, that interviewer was an annoying moron. He asked the same things over and over- a lot of it not even pertinent to hours in question, he went in circles, and he continually interrupted!
I remember thinking that Nina was very patient with that man.

Re: Nina, essentially, if I considered Nina a suspect (which I don't) my focus would be on- and limited to- the hours in question, and not on the days leading up to the critical hours.

Edited by regi, 21 July 2013 - 03:25 PM.


#215    Vincennes

Vincennes

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,013 posts
  • Joined:12 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 21 July 2013 - 03:11 PM

View PostAntilles, on 21 July 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Wow, DM. It'll take me quite a few readings to make some sense of it but one point I notice. I think it was you who said the mansion doors weren't locked so anyone could wander in ?

Nina says the night Rebecca died, she looked in and saw lights. Something like that. Why wouldn't she have entered if the doors were unlocked?

Great job on the transcript.

Yes, I did read in a couple of places R and J were in the habit of leaving the backdoor unlocked.  Why didn't Nina just go in?  She might not have known that (She hadn't been to the house since Dina and Jonah divorced) and if she did know it, she might not have felt free to just go in in that she was Dina's sister and it had not been a pleasant divorce.  The house seems to be too large to accomplish any result by just opening a door a little, sticking your head in and calling out.  Wouldn't do you any good.  So if in fact it was her on the property that night, she was pretty much done when she got no answer to her knock.

Nina's remark about the number of lights changed during the interview.  At first she says one light that looked like a hallway.  Then later, when she talks about looking into the backyard, she actually starts saying again, I only saw one light, then goes on to describe the location of two:  the second floor hallway and then adds, one in the small sitting room/bedroom on the second floor.

Thanks for the comment on the transcript.  I tried hard to be accurate.


#216    Vincennes

Vincennes

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,013 posts
  • Joined:12 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 21 July 2013 - 03:21 PM

View PostCuriousLittleOne, on 21 July 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

this new book that everyones on about......

title and author please :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:

please note, the following has been "piked" from http://www.websleuth...=145758&page=38 it made me think....


Posted ImagePosted Image
Just think about it.

Case 1 Balcony Jump

1. Why tie the rope on the bottom rung of the balcony. Top rung easier and makes the required length shorter. The rope almost doubles in length on the bottom rung because you need enough rope to allow you to move around on the balcony, put the noose around your neck, tie your own hands behind your back,stand up and flip yourself over the rail to your death.

This is what they are having you believe she done from the balcony.

Case 2 Ground level jump

2. Run upstairs to the balcony tie the rope on the bottom rung drop the rope down. Run down, climb on the table put the noose on, tie your own hands behind your back jump off the table and into the wall.

Then AS walks up see RN. Call 911 reports a woman hung that appears dead. Moves the table beneath the balcony to the wall, pulls out the knife or scissors, Cuts her down to reviver her, carrier her to the grass. Don't attempt to reviver her, Move the table back on the side walk in the standing position and wait for EMT.


This is what you believe.....

Please try this. Have someone in your family to play dead and you move them from the floor to the couch just to see how hard it is to move dead weight.

And you believe he cut her down with the items in the picture above by him self.

Just look at the table. why move the table back to the walkway when it is out of the way against the wall? It does not make sense the only reason is you want it to look a certain way. Staging..

Just so many factor that points to staging...........

I can't actually see this picture clearly as to where the rope is on the balcony.  I have seen other pictures of the scene although now I can't find one that shows the balcony with the body still on the ground.  I'd like to I am now inclined to distrust ones that I can find that show the rope over the top balcony rail.  I don't see how you could tie it from the bottom rail and then fling yourself over, wouldn't it wrap around the entire railing?
Manual hanging from the ground....Yeah, a possibility.... Your "dead weight" comment being interesting to figure into the equation.

IMO the table being out is because Adam had moved it there in order to cut her down, then it pretty much stayed in that position as part of the crime scene.

The book is "Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors" by Ann Rule.  I wouldn't suggest buying it there are too many errors both Regi and I were really suspect of its 100% accuracy.  It is, however, out in paperback.
I only took from it facts such as texts and sequence of events that I felt had to be pretty verifiable.

Edited by Duncansmom, 21 July 2013 - 03:22 PM.


#217    regi

regi

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,493 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 21 July 2013 - 03:31 PM

View PostDuncansmom, on 21 July 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

I can't actually see this picture clearly as to where the rope is on the balcony.

The rope was over the railing, per autopsy report...that the prints on the balcony were at the point where the rope went over the railing.


#218    Vincennes

Vincennes

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,013 posts
  • Joined:12 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 21 July 2013 - 03:32 PM

Here's a link I think you will find interesting with actual video of Adam and his lie detector test.


http://www.cbs8.com/story/22221589/news-8-exclusive-the-polygraph-exam-of-adam-shacknai


I did find something else interesting yesterday regarding Jonah.  That was in reference to the amount of his wealth and the he had been a HUGE presidential campaign contributor as in a million or so.

Very interesting..... :w00t:....


#219    regi

regi

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,493 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 22 July 2013 - 01:21 PM

I think this link has been offered before, but regardless, I think it warrants re-posting because it contains information released from the San Diego County Sheriff's Dept. re: the Zahau case evidence.

http://www.sdsheriff...coronado/rz.pdf

Edited by regi, 22 July 2013 - 01:24 PM.


#220    Vincennes

Vincennes

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,013 posts
  • Joined:12 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 22 July 2013 - 04:14 PM

Thanks, Regi, the photos in that post are really clear.  However, I'm not being smart here, I'm really asking:  What time is 00:50 hours ?  Here again, "The fingerprints found on the door "jamb"  were only Rebecca's.  Adam's computer was in there.  None of his prints?  and on to...No DNA other than Rebecca's on the rope from her neck?  None of Adam's even on her?    They shouldn't just include the information that they like and goes along with their theory.  Adam's DNA had to be on that rope in order to cut her down.  He would have to grab it and hold strongly enough to steady a swinging body.

Today, however, my thoughts have gone to it makes no psychological sense that Dina or Nina were involved.  Say even if Dina got so crazy mad she had someone do it for her.  Why on earth would she keep bringing it up in the press which she has again and again.  Why would you do that??  If I had done that and the police closed the case, I would be quietly going away hoping that it was never on anyone's mind again.

I think we need to focus on the quiet ones.  Rebecca's sister Xenia, Jonah and Adam.  I posted previously:  Why is it Rebecca's sister Mary that's in the news and the Dr. Phil shows.....Has anyone ever seen the kid sister at any time or heard anything from her personally other than Rebecca's initial statement that the kid sister was upstairs, taking a shower.


#221    regi

regi

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,493 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 22 July 2013 - 05:18 PM

Sure, Duncansmom. :tu:
Zahau's cell records show that at 00:50 Wed (12:50 am) Zahau's voice mail was cleared.
I noted that her last call out was at 9:25 pm and her last text out was at 9:53 pm.
Nina's text to Zahau occurs out of sequence; billing shows that the text was received at 10:41 pm, but Nina said in that interview that her phone records show the text was sent when she said it was... @ 9:41 pm., which was shortly before she said she'd decided to walk over to the mansion.
(Btw, I can't believe posters would have expected Nina to have checked the doors, or would have seriously expected her to have boldly walked right into the house!)

http://ftpcontent.wo.../zahau_cell.pdf

Adam's DNA/prints would be expected to be found on the knife used to cut the rope, and on a particular section of the rope- where he'd have to grab a hold of it to cut it, but only Zahau's DNA was found on the bindings (neck, hands, feet).
Also, only her DNA was on the rope attached to the foot board of the bed, and on the small knife on the floor.
Only Zahau's prints were on door jam of the guestroom entry, the balcony door, the large knife on the floor, and the bed leg next to where the rope was.
The absense of DNA and prints show that only Zahau was involved.
There were two paintbrushes, but only one was used. There was paint transfer on Zahau's hands, which then transferred to her body in specific places and onto the rope (also specific locations), and what that shows is that she used that paint.

Anyway, before we can look to suspects, we first have to determine what actually happened.

Edited by regi, 22 July 2013 - 05:21 PM.


#222    Vincennes

Vincennes

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,013 posts
  • Joined:12 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 22 July 2013 - 06:16 PM

I didn't know that about the time 00:50.  I thought 12:50 am would be 24:50!  Should have looked up first.

Re:  Nina's time of text being different that what is on R's bill.  Bizarre!  Nina I think lives in Arizona which would make her an hour ahead of R so that would really make it a two hour difference ...if and that's if the phone didn't adjust for time zones and most cell phones correct automatically ...So...?

But nothing surprises me anymore in this case!

The 911 call from Xenia is in this tread.  It is in one of the Dr. Phil Show interviews or clips I think. I have heard it but can't seem to find it now.  I do not remember it being as bizarre as Nina described.  I thought the kid just sounded terrified/upset.  I wish I could find it but it is here.  If I do, I will try to post it.

What Nina's interview brought most to me was that these two woman were mad at Rebecca.  I think that shows in she starts talking about their CPR conversations and thoughts during the first couple of days.  I don't think that's where my mind would be considering Max's injuries and condition.  CPR doesn't automatically save people or bring them back even if it was accomplished successfully.  This kids' head was disconnected from his spine like a light bulb.  So when Nina, keeps emphasizing the lack of it, I think they were going after Rebecca from the getgo.  The other questions I had are Dina's repeated statements that one of her and Jonah's agreements were that Max would never be left alone in R's care with another member of R's family in the house? I'm like, "what?"  Why would other members of R's family be a major focus of Dina's limitations.  It seems convenient in view of the accident...and, again, very angry.

The thing I came off with from Ann Rule's book were the excerpts from R's journal.  She really seemed to be in love with Jonah and even before the accident, seems to have been slipping away from her so she did it naked, she was stripped of everything and she did it dramatically.  

I think I am good with Xenia caused the accident in play.  That's why she's quiet now.  She might not even be able to tell the Z's that know what she did caused two deaths.  ......R did not immediately get to Max......and in view of his injuries, she knew her relationship with Jonah was going to be over.  I will keep looking for the 911 call.

Curious, Antilles, you agree?  Regi, can you accept this scenario?

Edited by Duncansmom, 22 July 2013 - 06:18 PM.


#223    regi

regi

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,493 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 22 July 2013 - 07:55 PM

Re: that interview, I certainly didn't have the sense that Nina was angry.
It seems anyone would have questions surrounding the incident with Max, and surely, after Zahau's death, such questions would only loom larger.
It appears to me that info. from the neurologist, info. from the ME, conflicting info. about whether or not CPR was performed before the arrival of paramedics, and then Zena's "bizarre" 9-1-1 call, was certainly enough to raise more questions than answers.
However, to my knowledge, all that info. came after Zahau's death, not before.

I seem to recall that Nina lived in Colorado at the time, but I could be mistaken.
Regardless, there's a witness who apparently saw Nina at the mansion that night, and so surely, his statements helped to verify Nina's account of when she was there.

That Dr. Phil show played only a few seconds of Zena's 9-1-1 call.

I forgot to comment about Dina's limitations re: Zahau's contact with Max.
It sounds to me that the point was likely that Dina wanted someone to be with Zahau and Max who she (Dina) had an independent relationship with.

Edited by regi, 22 July 2013 - 08:16 PM.


#224    Vincennes

Vincennes

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,013 posts
  • Joined:12 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 22 July 2013 - 10:36 PM

View PostDuncansmom, on 22 July 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

Curious, Antilles, you agree?  Regi, can you accept this scenario?

Hey, everyone, I have to apologize here.  I just reread my last post.  I phrased myself so very poorly. I didn't mean in anyway because I have come to this conclusion, it's decided.  Please, I hope you all know me better than that by now   I was seeing a hypothesis that I think has at least some major elements that have agreed with everyone's interpretation on certain facets of the case.  

I guess where my mind was is, darn it, Regi, I'm beginning to see your darn suicide possibility which I was so juxtaposed to when we began.  There, it's out now.... :-* ...LOL

Edited by Duncansmom, 22 July 2013 - 10:37 PM.


#225    Antilles

Antilles

    NCC-1701

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,274 posts
  • Joined:23 Jul 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:2nd star from the left

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:13 AM

It's OK DM.

You know I believe Rebecca's death was a suicide.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users