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Spreckel Mansion Death/Suicide


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#91    Vincennes

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:03 PM

Re:  The footprints   http://radaronline.c...-found-bedroom/


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#92    Vincennes

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:11 PM

Wow, Ouija... You have quite a good post there ~!!   I havent even finished it yet but I had to say that I thought exactly the same thing regarding the length of the rope !!!
When I first read that.... my thought was "Well she cut it a bit long there...She almost could have hit the ground"  !!!  What you said about it also really got to me... I'll finish reading and add more to this I'm sure


#93    wolfknight

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 07:31 PM

Ok we all know that Becky was murdered but why. Did she know the truth about what really happened to Max? Was she silenced to protect someone ?


#94    wolfknight

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 07:36 PM

I was thinking about Ouija throwing herself over her couch. LOL. That is some good investgating.


#95    Vincennes

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 07:44 PM

Wolfie - That is some good investigation.  She threw herself into it, so to speak... I'm upset however, because I did another entire post here that is not showing up... Now  I will have to do it again..... but your post was so good,Ouija,  I will.


#96    wolfknight

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:09 PM

I think Zahau was forced to kill herself because of her peripheral involvement in the death of Max Shaknai.

   The long version of my theory makes perfect sense from a human standpoint: There is something that connects Zahau to Shaknai’s accident inside the mansion that allows the family members of Max to point the finger of blame at Rebecca. That finger was the duress Zahau was under when she killed herself.

If she were made an offer she couldn’t refuse and resigned herself to accepting it, she could try to make her suicide look like murder. That would explain the improbability of the physical nature of her suicide. A naked body hanging from a balcony by electrical cord seems impromptu and mean, like an unplanned crime of passion. For some reason, Zahau wanted her suicide to look and feel like murder. Whatever it is she wanted to accomplish with this final act was something she couldn’t write down. She knew she couldn’t write it down.

  



Edited by wolfknight, 31 January 2013 - 08:11 PM.


#97    ouija ouija

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:35 PM

View Postwolfknight, on 31 January 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

I think Zahau was forced to kill herself because of her peripheral involvement in the death of Max Shaknai.

   The long version of my theory makes perfect sense from a human standpoint: There is something that connects Zahau to Shaknai’s accident inside the mansion that allows the family members of Max to point the finger of blame at Rebecca. That finger was the duress Zahau was under when she killed herself.

If she were made an offer she couldn’t refuse and resigned herself to accepting it, she could try to make her suicide look like murder. That would explain the improbability of the physical nature of her suicide. A naked body hanging from a balcony by electrical cord seems impromptu and mean, like an unplanned crime of passion. For some reason, Zahau wanted her suicide to look and feel like murder. Whatever it is she wanted to accomplish with this final act was something she couldn’t write down. She knew she couldn’t write it down.

  

I agree with some of the things you say there. Rebecca may or may not have murdered Max ...... she may simply have not taken proper care of him, or thought that her younger sister was keeping him out of mischief while she(Rebecca) was in the shower. Whichever way it happened, one or more of the Shaknai family could have blamed her and decided to murder her.

It did cross my mind that it was a suicide made to look like murder, and I also wondered if she decided to kill herself because she blamed herself for not taking proper care of him, and quite simply that she would miss little Max ...... it sounds as if they got on well.

But the bottom line for me is still: I don't believe it would be possible for someone to tip themselves over the balcony railing whilst their wrists and ankles are bound. Plus, that scenario doesn't fit with the footprints on the balcony.

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#98    Vincennes

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:00 PM

okay, I'm back to where I was at 11:00 am this morning.....

I was so taken back by the fact that you noticed the length of that rope.  When I read that and remembered my thoughts were actually "Oh, God, that looks what I would have done to myself."  That is, here I am Lord, now I have thrown myself naked over this balcony... only to be here flapping like a fish on the lawn... and you know God.. I'm naked... I've now only hurt my back and I don't have a key to get back in!  All,Please know here,  I'm only laffn here at myself!  The fact that came to both of us... is a real pause.....

Now I'm taking your post... point by point again.....because I guess I am too dumb to post it correctly in the first place !!!

Could what you are now seeing as the "Caretaker House", refer to the "Guest House" Adam was taken to the night Rebecca died.  I know we have those who reverance the police reports... but I thought that portion of the report seemed sloppy to the point of a last minute cut.... It talks about the "Guest House" and the fact Adam's bedroom was not slept in... Then it abruptly seems to jump to talking about a "Guest Bedroom".. where the panties were found.... I never could figure which "house" this Guest Bedroom was in the main house or the Guest House ..... Are they then talking about the room that Rebecca committed suicide in????  Is that a Guest Bedroom but in the main house ????  I'm certain I can be corrected on this as the reports are all valid on that date and have been stamped in... and ...   accepted.  Regi:  You are on....The report jumps .. from here to there... but Reg  You quote them so well, I will leave this to you.

Your Timeline is  Great:

I never knew  Rebecca and Jonah went out to dinner that night and they returned at approx 10:00 p.m.... That would have been close to when twin "NINA"  ha! said she was at the house looking for Rebecca!
Nor did I ever know Jonah left the hospital at 1:55 AM for a "hotel" and didn't return until 6-6:30 that morning.
Wouldn't that put him in the immediate time window Rebecca died?  If Adam's text went out at 6:48 to Rebecca - and the police, autopsy report says she was dead 3 - 4 hours. before being cut down That would put Jonah in the time window of opportunity.


Yes, to me it does seem odd Jonah would leave a hospital just having been told his son is in the dying process to then go for sleep in a hotel...
Did he do this with his ex wife?  I don't see a rationale for that...Although I think he might have been mad enough he didn't need help....but to me that type of an Execs personality doesn't go back to left over wives for support.  They just don't
Regi:  You can work on this didn't happen.... quote reference links of times please and give links to "reports" you quote....It will keep you busy rather than thinking of how to be just contradictory.

I do  agree with what your thoughts on perhaps it was just Jonah making the comments, "Ah, shucks, I was just about to propose to that girl"  Who else did he say that to or would that just be another log to cement his alibi? Now that you have established a timeframe?

The length of the rope.... Now, you all know I can't go there again..It was bad to laf.. However, although it is on the record as disputed, those knots around the bedpost are pretty darn exact... Why would the length of rope then be so far off?  Since this was the length of rope....... actually measured in all of the reports........How then did she hit her head 3 -4 times going over.... It was not as I had earlier suggested, a bungie cord.....Her neck was not broken as if she bounced up... or.... as Regi would have it... as if she even bounced to the side of her head... How did she incur these injuries???   Was she, in fact, slid over the balcony... while unconscious from the head injuries????  Which would account for the bleeding... She didn't bleed in the bedroom because she was lying down...  When she was placed in an abrupt vertical position... the blood that had gathered flowed out and down her legs....I have always been told that's how they distinguish between injuries before death and after... You don't bleed after you are dead.... Blood had ran down her thighs......Ball in your court Regi.... or I will give you a pass, just post DM is stupid and everything she has replied is wrong and and move along... I don't want to tax you.

To me, that would both account for both autopsy reports being correct.  She was alive when she went over the railing... and the second...she was slid over it... and then strangled to death.

Oh, gosh, those footprints.  I was totally incorrect in calling the prints of those sole cleets.... But why are the prints on the balcony included in any autopsy?  I can see that" the body was found hanging" should be included.... but descriptions of the prints in the perimeter.... Seems to me a reach....Regi, You were talking about the autopsy,correct and not the police report?  I don't want to misquote....  Were they Rebecca's size.... Good question.  My thoughts a while back when I asked, did she tie herself up in the bedroom and give one big HOP
to the balcony, land precisely, then... go over.... No fudging around putting other feet down?.....

I'm now tired, as I have endeavored to respond to Ouija post today twice.... You did all of this O and I was to infirm to get my response posted correctly!  BRAVO!


#99    Vincennes

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:22 PM

I'm back here with you guys.... Did that darn repost again.... ...
but I don't see any substantiating facts for she was made to commit suicide...Maybe I am misunderstanding here.... Maybe you guys mean she was made to kill herself..... That I can see, all over the place.

I forgot to add in my post.... and I'm never, ever going back there again..... the suicide note on the door.  Do we know why it is blocked out in all photos?  The only place I have seen what the text was .. was in an interview with Rebecca's former husband... As far as I know, he is the source of the quote.   He went on to say it was in a block style printing that he hade neer known Rebecca to use.... Anyone else found another source to authenticate it?

Edited by Duncansmom, 31 January 2013 - 09:23 PM.


#100    ouija ouija

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:46 PM

View PostDuncansmom, on 31 January 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

I'm back here with you guys.... Did that darn repost again.... ...
but I don't see any substantiating facts for she was made to commit suicide...Maybe I am misunderstanding here.... Maybe you guys mean she was made to kill herself..... That I can see, all over the place.

I forgot to add in my post.... and I'm never, ever going back there again..... the suicide note on the door.  Do we know why it is blocked out in all photos?  The only place I have seen what the text was .. was in an interview with Rebecca's former husband... As far as I know, he is the source of the quote.   He went on to say it was in a block style printing that he hade neer known Rebecca to use.... Anyone else found another source to authenticate it?

The only thing about it not being a writing style Rebecca would use: I think if you were trying to write with paint straight from the tube on a stiff, stubby brush, then quite large capitals would be the best anybody could manage. You certainly wouldn't be able to use a flowing cursive rounded style.

I read a comment somewhere that the writing was too high for it to have been Rebecca, but I don't agree with that. I think if you wanted to make an eye-catching statement(and it's certainly that, being as cryptic as it is), then you would do it as high as was still comfortable.

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#101    Vincennes

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:09 PM

I agree.  If I was going to write a statement. I would also write it as high as I could reach. If I were doing it with paint... Yes, probably also block... but that brings about the questions.

Why would she paint that on a door when she had a computer in her bedroom.... ... and bring paint supplies to a room to do that in... in order that she could paint some mysterious statement that could not readily be understood.  Hey, if it were me and I got the paint and all of that... believe me... The names would be in my message...?

Do we all feel comfortable with what she wrote.  I have only found the one source..   Why was it blocked out in all photos... There are no names in it... What reason for such cover up?

Edited by Duncansmom, 31 January 2013 - 10:11 PM.


#102    ouija ouija

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:54 PM

At last I've found the link to the aerial view:  http://cdn2-b.examin...ence - 02_4.jpg

The Sprekels Mansion estate comprises all the buildings with red tiled roofs. The Guest room is in the square 'annexe' tacked onto the back of the main house(you can just see the round wooden table that was beneath the balcony).

The Guest house is to the bottom left of the estate(as we are looking at it), and is at 90 degrees to the wall with the balcony in it.

The Caretaker's House is bottom right, attached to the Guest House and very close to the Guest Room and balcony.

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#103    ouija ouija

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:58 PM

View PostDuncansmom, on 31 January 2013 - 10:09 PM, said:

Why would she paint that on a door when she had a computer in her bedroom.... ... and bring paint supplies to a room to do that in... in order that she could paint some mysterious statement that could not readily be understood.  Hey, if it were me and I got the paint and all of that... believe me... The names would be in my message...?

Do we all feel comfortable with what she wrote.  I have only found the one source..   Why was it blocked out in all photos... There are no names in it... What reason for such cover up?

My first thought was on reading this  ^ ^ ^  that if she put something on the computer her 'audience' could be limited to just one person and, depending who that person was, be deleted. Writing on the door should be seen by a lot more people.

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It is only when you form your question precisely and accurately that you receive the true answer.

#104    Vincennes

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:24 PM

OMG,,,, Your thought pattern seems more than logical to me.... including why she might have wrote that message to be viewed by many... Yeah, that seems logic to me....  but that does give Rebecca control of the scene...and if she had control, she wasn't forced to commit suicide.... What think ?


As to the grounds!  OMG  no wonder the police got confused...  I got confused just reading their report... Now, I seeing this arial and  what they were up against.to identify the rooms..   I will have to go back to your questions on that....Again,  good job!

Edited by Duncansmom, 31 January 2013 - 11:46 PM.


#105    ouija ouija

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:25 PM

Right *composes self & puts serious face on*. Now that I've finished laughing at the first paragraph of your long post, D'sM:

The guest bedroom is attached to the main house and has the balcony.
The guest house is at 90 degrees to the 'balcony' bedroom/guest bedroom. This much I feel clear on, but what I'm not sure about is where Jonah's older children stayed(they went home the morning of the day Max had his fall). Did they use the guest room and the guest house? The abandoned panties were in the guest room so maybe the girl/girls stayed in there and the boy/boys stayed in the guest house?

Incidently, it occurs to me that these visiting older children may have been the ones playing loud music which neighbours interpreted as a 'party'(not sure which night that was).

As the older children only left that morning, I wonder if one of them wrote the cryptic message on the door? The guest room is sort of annexed, so maybe no-one went to it until after Rebecca died? No-one knew the message was already there. The room obviously hadn't been cleaned because the panties were still in the trash container after Rebecca died.

I think Jonah went to the hotel on his own and left Dina at Max's bedside.

Well done you for making both the autopsies correct by deducing that she was alive but unconscious when lifted over the balcony gently enough not to break her neck, just strangle her ........ BRILLIANT! That had me stumped.

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