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#1    Jessica Christ

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 07:54 AM

How many victims were at Sandy Hook?

Many are considering only the 20 students and 6 school employees.

What about Adam's mother?

What about Adam?

Why does society choose to honor some but not all? Why does society not count the mental health crisis, wide availability of assault weapons in the civilian market, and violent video games, for they all came together in a perfect storm, as being the true culprit.

The belief that there are good and bad people is dualism and dualism is an illusion. There are just people who at times can go through depression, mental illness, or simply snap. When they do the way the environment is set up will affect the outcome.

Loneliness and disconnection are at an all time high. Corporations are profiting at keeping people plugged in to their products and disconnected from others. Companies profit from the sale of military arms converted for civilians. We can socially engineer our society and environment or leave it for corporations to do.

Quote

I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza’s mother. I am Dylan Klebold’s and Eric Harris’s mother. I am James Holmes’s mother. I am Jared Loughner’s mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho’s mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

http://www.huffingto..._n_2311009.html

Did the mothers views and current social climate among some conservatives play a part?

So many in America as part of their ideology cling to guns while rejecting mainstream society such as public schools and science including modern psychology. Could their family have gotten help?

Quote

We don’t know what the Lanzas’ attitude toward mental health care was. Did Nancy, who homeschooled Adam for years, reject the mainstream beliefs of child psychiatry, as many in the home-schooling community do?


http://ideas.time.co...t-main-mostpop2

Quote

Beretta executives later in interviews on public record which we've documented ... said, 'Look, our strategy was this: ... What we want to do is get the cache of military sales so that we can then turn to the much bigger, much more profitable American civilian market and make a lot more money doing that.' And that's precisely what they did. Beretta's advertising [strategy] to this day ... is, 'This is a gun that we sell to the military. It's made for them but you can use it.' "

http://www.npr.org/2...civilian-market

I count 28 victims. What about you?

Edited by I believe you, 22 December 2012 - 08:15 AM.


#2    pitchp

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 08:07 AM

guns don't kill people. People kill people. People with special kids should have special assistance and advice on how to bring up their child. Even on their adult stages. They should never be taught on how to use a weapon. Kids should be taught about love, affection and all the good things. But i understand that the world we live in is not perfect, and i accept that

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#3    Jessica Christ

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 08:41 AM

View Postpitchp, on 22 December 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

guns don't kill people. People kill people. People with special kids should have special assistance and advice on how to bring up their child. Even on their adult stages. They should never be taught on how to use a weapon. Kids should be taught about love, affection and all the good things. But i understand that the world we live in is not perfect, and i accept that

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is dualism. Weapons designed for war, not regular guns but civilian copies of military arms, freely available is not a good idea.

Neither is having a big red button people could push to destroy the world. Some could say buttons don't kill people but if it is available then one day someone will use it. Best solution is not have it available. The rights of the individual to obtain these type of guns will soon defer to the rights of the collecticve who do not want their children harmed in school by those type of guns.

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The NRA’s indicate of perspective is that it’s kind of a, well, people who use these guns in a bad approach are bad people. Our indicate of perspective is no, these guns are accessible to people. People have moods, they have several romantic needs, they have moments of anger, they have moments of depression. So by putting these guns out in a population, it’s not that good people are not going to use them in bad ways, it’s that potentially, anybody...

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Edited by I believe you, 22 December 2012 - 09:37 AM.


#4    notoverrated

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 08:46 AM

i dont see how video games can be blamed, if someone has it in them to kill someone they will.

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#5    libstaK

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:29 AM

I count 27 victims of the shooter including his mother (yep, it has bothered me consistently that the news keeps reporting 26 victims when there were 27) - I don't know enough about the shooter to decide whether he can be classified as a victim of society or psychological issues for sure.

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#6    Wordless Wanderer

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:31 AM

Video games shouldn't be blamed. As much as I like to slice and dice people up in video games, I would never even think of doing that in real life.

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#7    Jessica Christ

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:45 AM

Maybe some feel that video games play no part because they play video games themselves leading to a natural bias.

Other do see how they are connected. It is not the technology itself but how it is used, marketed, it's ability to destroy social connections, and other misapplications that will have others begin to call for regulation of these products.

These violent games might also change the architecture of the mind in a way that other products do not.

However we feel on if they should be blamed or not won't stop the scrutinization due them and what is listed above are some of the reasons why. In either case there is a huge thread devoted to that subject.

How many victims do you think should be considered victims? 26, 27, or 28?

Edited by I believe you, 22 December 2012 - 09:49 AM.


#8    notoverrated

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:16 AM

View PostI believe you, on 22 December 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

Maybe some feel that video games play no part because they play video games themselves leading to a natural bias.

Other do see how they are connected. It is not the technology itself but how it is used, marketed, it's ability to destroy social connections, and other misapplications that will have others begin to call for regulation of these products.

These violent games might also change the architecture of the mind in a way that other products do not.

However we feel on if they should be blamed or not won't stop the scrutinization due them and what is listed above are some of the reasons why. In either case there is a huge thread devoted to that subject.

How many victims do you think should be considered victims? 26, 27, or 28?
i havnt played a video in awhile but its all fantasy type stuff anyways, i think people just need something to blame for sick people.

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#9    Jessica Christ

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:40 AM

View Postnotoverrated, on 22 December 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

i havnt played a video in awhile but its all fantasy type stuff anyways, i think people just need something to blame for sick people.

Very true but what if they are making some people sick or adding to it? Should not everything be looked just in case or should we keep sacred cows not allowing them to even be questioned?

I would like to hear from science.

So how many victims do you feel should be recognized?  26, 27, or 28?

Edited by I believe you, 22 December 2012 - 10:40 AM.


#10    Sean93

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:20 AM

View PostI believe you, on 22 December 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

Maybe some feel that video games play no part because they play video games themselves leading to a natural bias.

Other do see how they are connected. It is not the technology itself but how it is used, marketed, it's ability to destroy social connections, and other misapplications that will have others begin to call for regulation of these products.

These violent games might also change the architecture of the mind in a way that other products do not.

However we feel on if they should be blamed or not won't stop the scrutinization due them and what is listed above are some of the reasons why. In either case there is a huge thread devoted to that subject.

How many victims do you think should be considered victims? 26, 27, or 28?

Damn, your book and film collection must suck major baws. Seriously, some of the greatest films in existence contain violence (God Father, No country for old men etc.) Same for books too and they immerse the user as much as video games, more so films because they require no effort, you just let it all flow in without even trying.

It's obvious that the people who act on violence in video games are mentally damaged people, not only that but one fact people seem to overlook is that violent video games are for 18's and over so there is no way kids can get them without the help of the adult, so I blame the parent's for giving Schitzophrenic Danny his copy of Manhunt.

It doesn't take a media form for someone to act out violence, all it takes is some messed up puppy.

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#11    Wordless Wanderer

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 03:29 PM

View PostI believe you, on 22 December 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

Maybe some feel that video games play no part because they play video games themselves leading to a natural bias.

Other do see how they are connected. It is not the technology itself but how it is used, marketed, it's ability to destroy social connections, and other misapplications that will have others begin to call for regulation of these products.

These violent games might also change the architecture of the mind in a way that other products do not.

However we feel on if they should be blamed or not won't stop the scrutinization due them and what is listed above are some of the reasons why. In either case there is a huge thread devoted to that subject.

How many victims do you think should be considered victims? 26, 27, or 28?

If bias is the case, then my mother should have made me seek therapy after seeing the violence in the games I play. You can't generalize the whole video game playing and violent movies watching crowd by saying it rots our brain. The point is every person is different. Some people turn out to be violent if they are brought up in an abusive household whereas some people turn out to be the completely different. What you get influenced by is entirely up to you, some people can get influenced by a single sermon they hear in a religious place.

And as far as the 'others' go, everyone needs something or the other to blame. I have been hearing loads of people complaining about how video games affect people and most often than not the gamers that I have met and talked to are sympathetic and compassionate. The 'others' won't say that video games also teach you how to stay in a team or how to look out for one another simply because it contradicts their point.

Yes I would count Adam's mother as a victim but not Adam himself. Last Sunday a woman was gang raped in my city by 6 men and is in the ICU battling for her life because of the brutality with which the crime had been committed. One of the main accused met with an accident and his hands were damaged, which led to him getting an inferiority complex and he used anger and violence to mask that. Does that mean that the heinous crime he committed is justified? Justifying murders of not one but several elementary school children by saying that he was mentally ill is ridiculous (no offence) If that is the case then the murders Manson committed can also be justified cuz he wasn't right in the head.


Oh and Charles Manson was influenced by a Beatles song. Certainly the Beatles rot our brain, don't they?

Edited by Wordless Wanderer, 22 December 2012 - 03:31 PM.

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#12    Hasina

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 03:34 PM

Anyone Adam killed is a victim. Is he a victim? I don't know that for myself. What his mental health was and all that jazz. I just got done talking with my father about this and I would like to add this.

My father asked, why are we (law abiding citizens who want to own guns) being punished and then ostracized for wanting to keep that right. It disgusts us that when one person breaks a law with a dangerous object, anyone who owns or uses those objects will also be vilified.

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#13    Lcvec

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 05:26 AM

View PostI believe you, on 22 December 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

Very true but what if they are making some people sick or adding to it? Should not everything be looked just in case or should we keep sacred cows not allowing them to even be questioned?

I would like to hear from science.

So how many victims do you feel should be recognized?  26, 27, or 28?

Regardless of your opinion about video games, blaming it or even thinking it influenced Adam's attitude makes no sense and it is insulting to both those who have mental illnesses and those who play video games. The complexity of our human brain and how personality develops goes far beyond your 'X thing does Y thing to people'. Want a real life example? Go to a country where violence and dictatorship is an everyday thing. Look at the people. You'll find some who have lost so much and lived through very similar events, yet they will have very different personalities. Violence there won't necessarily generate violence, it can have the opposite effect. Just as all the propaganda, as present as it is, treating people as if the government is the best thing to the country and has the people's best interests in mind, will probably get through to only a limited number of people. According to you, exposure has an 'obvious' effect on people. Then, would you care to explain to me the different effects that people have after being exposed to exactly the same thing? Why do some hide for the rest of their lives while others choose to hunt down terrorists after a terrorist attack?

You say there's no such thing as good or bad people. That argument is invalid in so many levels. As long as it's your opinion, it's acceptable but don't base your argument on it. There's instinct. We have art as a way to express ourselves and what's most relevant in our lives is our feelings and the way we perceive the world. For some, killing might be just an instinct, the closest way to an outlet to their feelings. They don't need a video game for that. If we were in another era or just in a world without video games and movies, you'd just find something else to blame. Maybe you should stop trying to blame something else for things people do. He did what he did because of the way he perceived his own world and life. Mental illnesses may or may not have driven him towards doing what he did, but ultimately his world was built of people and feelings just like everyone else's, not entertainment. The victims are the ones who died and had nothing to do with his life. Also his mother, but maybe she could have done something to prevent this at some point in Adam's life. There's always that question. He killed people, he had the intent and the access to the tools necessary to carry it out. What can be done to prevent this is to discuss how accessible those tools were, not the reasoning behind his actions or who or what is to be blamed for it.

Edited by Lcvec, 23 December 2012 - 05:32 AM.


#14    notoverrated

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 12:29 AM

View PostI believe you, on 22 December 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

Very true but what if they are making some people sick or adding to it? Should not everything be looked just in case or should we keep sacred cows not allowing them to even be questioned?

I would like to hear from science.

So how many victims do you feel should be recognized?  26, 27, or 28?
i would say 27 i dont count the man who killed everyone as a victim. (but idk his life story so im not 100% positive) And violent video games have always been questioned for these things but to me it is just like how homophobes say watching a gay man on TV might turn your children gay. we dont know why it happens so we point the fingers at things that might be related.

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