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FBI "monitored" Occupy movement


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#16    F3SS

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 02:24 PM

Yes. Safety.
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#17    Babe Ruth

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 03:35 PM

View Postsocrates.junior, on 24 December 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

The dismissing evidence game is a great one to play, Babe. Just don’t expect to look very credible while you do it.

http://www.thoughtsf.../1005111718.jpg



No, the government generally doesn’t like libertarians. Just because I’m not silly enough to believe a bunch of tripe designed to make me look stupid doesn’t mean I’m a government stooge. I know you think you’re a crusader for truth, but you’re really just a distraction.



You really don’t know anything about all the violence the Occupy movement touched off? Or better yet, you probably do and are ignoring it.

Well, the trouble is that I personally know a handful of the OWS types.  Not in New York, but in Florida.  And they are to a person nonviolent regular folks.  Some with jobs, some not.

Is it possible that there are some violent members?  Of course.

Is it possible that there are some agent provacateurs planted by NYPD or other government agencies?  Of course.

So, your fear of people openly advocating for change, and petitioning their government for change in lawful ways, is noted.  Please take solace in your beneficent government, and enjoy the holidays.


#18    socrates.junior

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 04:29 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 25 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Well, the trouble is that I personally know a handful of the OWS types.  Not in New York, but in Florida.  And they are to a person nonviolent regular folks.  Some with jobs, some not.

Well as long as you know them...well that takes care of all of them! The whole movement is filled with peaceful regular folks! All of them! Except that's just silly.

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Is it possible that there are some violent members?  Of course.

Woah, is that an admission of possibility? See, I would have thought that death threats would've indicated more of "There are some violent members." But at least we have the possibility open now.

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Is it possible that there are some agent provacateurs planted by NYPD or other government agencies?  Of course.

Is it possible that the aliens helped start the Occupy movement? TO pay us back for not actually landing on the moon, while shooting JFK from the grassy knoll, while finding Atlantis? Of course it's possible.

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So, your fear of people openly advocating for change, and petitioning their government for change in lawful ways, is noted.  Please take solace in your beneficent government, and enjoy the holidays.

No, I have no fear of simple open lawful advocation for change. I have a bit of pity for the misguided aims of the Occupy movement, but that's all. It is when people are violent, break the law, mess up cities, and act like hooligans that I have a problem.

And while it's adorable to inaccurately paint me as someone who loves the government, it's also inaccurate and puerile. So put on your big boy pants, admit when you're wrong, and man up.

I love argument, I love debate. I don't expect anyone to just sit there and agree with me, that's not their job. -Margaret Thatcher

#19    Raptor Witness

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:25 AM

When Heaven stands with you, the curtains open and the light comes from the stage. It does not fall upon it.

So if any darkness surrounds us, what does it matter? The darker the night, the brighter the stars become.

Edited by Raptor Witness, 27 December 2012 - 09:45 AM.

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#20    Babe Ruth

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:57 PM

View Postsocrates.junior, on 25 December 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Well as long as you know them...well that takes care of all of them! The whole movement is filled with peaceful regular folks! All of them! Except that's just silly.



Woah, is that an admission of possibility? See, I would have thought that death threats would've indicated more of "There are some violent members." But at least we have the possibility open now.



Is it possible that the aliens helped start the Occupy movement? TO pay us back for not actually landing on the moon, while shooting JFK from the grassy knoll, while finding Atlantis? Of course it's possible.



No, I have no fear of simple open lawful advocation for change. I have a bit of pity for the misguided aims of the Occupy movement, but that's all. It is when people are violent, break the law, mess up cities, and act like hooligans that I have a problem.

And while it's adorable to inaccurately paint me as someone who loves the government, it's also inaccurate and puerile. So put on your big boy pants, admit when you're wrong, and man up.

No, can't do that Socrates.  The sentiment that drives OWS--that Wall Street literally controls the government--is valid.  All sorts of evidence exists over the last 10 years or more to validate that sentiment that it cannot all be listed here.  The crowning achievement was the TARP fiasco, but there are statements from numerous congressmen to that effect--government is run by and for Wall Street.  Not Main Street.

You are certainly entitled to your prejudices and views, just as I am.  That you are fearful of people advocating for change by exercising their constitutional rights tells me all I need to know about your views, and where your head and heart are.


#21    pallidin

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 07:54 PM

So what ever happened to OWS?

Someone here said that they went "underground"

Obviously Wall Street has a serious problem with ripping people-off and also truly bizzare domestic/international monetary trade practices which have resulted in several federal indictments.

Not ALL of Wall Street, of course.


#22    socrates.junior

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:04 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 27 December 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

No, can't do that Socrates.  The sentiment that drives OWS--that Wall Street literally controls the government--is valid.  All sorts of evidence exists over the last 10 years or more to validate that sentiment that it cannot all be listed here.  The crowning achievement was the TARP fiasco, but there are statements from numerous congressmen to that effect--government is run by and for Wall Street.  Not Main Street.

You are certainly entitled to your prejudices and views, just as I am.  That you are fearful of people advocating for change by exercising their constitutional rights tells me all I need to know about your views, and where your head and heart are.

The main problem I have with OWS is exactly what I said...they're misguided. I've seen almost every single thing under the sun demanded so far.

http://coupmedia.org...py-demands-2009

Here, we have a good start, campaign reform, end the Fed, end the war on drugs. All lessening government intervention. But then, it suddenly wants more government intervention with environmental demands, gender pay demands etcs. It's a schizophrenic list.

Other places I disagree even more with them. Income redistribution, forgiveness of student loans, more and better jobs. I mean, I'm sorry that the art history degree from the private college didn't work...I really am. But maybe they should get their head on straight and realize that they shouldn't get money for being educated. It isn't completely their fault that they think that. It's a more systemic problem. They've been told it all their lives. Which is why I come back to the fact that OWS is a misguided movement.

I love argument, I love debate. I don't expect anyone to just sit there and agree with me, that's not their job. -Margaret Thatcher

#23    Gummug

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:58 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 27 December 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

No, can't do that Socrates.  The sentiment that drives OWS--that Wall Street literally controls the government--is valid. All sorts of evidence exists over the last 10 years or more to validate that sentiment that it cannot all be listed here.  The crowning achievement was the TARP fiasco, but there are statements from numerous congressmen to that effect--government is run by and for Wall Street.  Not Main Street.

You are certainly entitled to your prejudices and views, just as I am.  That you are fearful of people advocating for change by exercising their constitutional rights tells me all I need to know about your views, and where your head and heart are.
What I don't get here, what I don't understand, is, if Wall Street controls the government, why does Obama seem so supportive of it (the OWS I mean)? I don't have as much of a problem thinking that the super-rich (like Soros and the Rothschilds, etc.) control the government. As Amschel Rothschild is quoted as saying, "give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws".

Edited by Gummug, 27 December 2012 - 10:01 PM.

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#24    Babe Ruth

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 02:39 PM

View PostGummug, on 27 December 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

What I don't get here, what I don't understand, is, if Wall Street controls the government, why does Obama seem so supportive of it (the OWS I mean)? I don't have as much of a problem thinking that the super-rich (like Soros and the Rothschilds, etc.) control the government. As Amschel Rothschild is quoted as saying, "give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws".

Don't know?  It appears that you think Obama ACTUALLY supports OWS, but the record shows that his DHS and his FBI were infiltrating and manipulating the people in the movement.

Obama is an agent of the status quo, nothing more.  Even as a Senator he voted for immunity for the telecom criminals who did the dirty work for Bush's NSA.


#25    Babe Ruth

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 02:45 PM

View Postsocrates.junior, on 27 December 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

The main problem I have with OWS is exactly what I said...they're misguided. I've seen almost every single thing under the sun demanded so far.

http://coupmedia.org...py-demands-2009

Here, we have a good start, campaign reform, end the Fed, end the war on drugs. All lessening government intervention. But then, it suddenly wants more government intervention with environmental demands, gender pay demands etcs. It's a schizophrenic list.

Other places I disagree even more with them. Income redistribution, forgiveness of student loans, more and better jobs. I mean, I'm sorry that the art history degree from the private college didn't work...I really am. But maybe they should get their head on straight and realize that they shouldn't get money for being educated. It isn't completely their fault that they think that. It's a more systemic problem. They've been told it all their lives. Which is why I come back to the fact that OWS is a misguided movement.

There was a time in the OWS movement that the media's biggest complaint against them was that they did not offer any 'demands', they did not offer any specifics in their 'petition' to the government.  And it seemed a fairly accurate criticism to me--they were rather vague.

But as time went on, some specific points were developed.  Personally, I'm sympathetic to the demand for forgiveness of college loans.  Those loans are very similar to the fraudulent loans made to so many in the housing market.

Anyway, I'm sympathetic to the movement because I know that the tail is indeed wagging the dog.  By way of TARP, almost countless wars brought under fraud, fracking being exempted from the Clean Water Act regulations, and on and on, government serves the corporate structure, and the common man is utterly disregarded and overtaxed.  The rule of law is history in this country.


#26    OverSword

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:01 PM

View Postsocrates.junior, on 27 December 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

The main problem I have with OWS is exactly what I said...they're misguided. I've seen almost every single thing under the sun demanded so far.

http://coupmedia.org...py-demands-2009

Here, we have a good start, campaign reform, end the Fed, end the war on drugs. All lessening government intervention. But then, it suddenly wants more government intervention with environmental demands, gender pay demands etcs. It's a schizophrenic list.

Other places I disagree even more with them. Income redistribution, forgiveness of student loans, more and better jobs. I mean, I'm sorry that the art history degree from the private college didn't work...I really am. But maybe they should get their head on straight and realize that they shouldn't get money for being educated. It isn't completely their fault that they think that. It's a more systemic problem. They've been told it all their lives. Which is why I come back to the fact that OWS is a misguided movement.
I have to agree with that assesment.  I work across the street from where the 99%ers were camped out for months last year and down the street from where they moved them too.  Every time I would speak with them or take the literature they handed out the word that came to mind was 'unfocused'.

That being said, the only reason the FBI should be investigating this group at all is if there is evidence that they are breaking federal law of participating in crimes that cross state of international borders.  If not any and all monitoring or investigating of the members of OWS should be carried out by local law enforcement only.  I see using the FBI to try to dig up offenses as bullying and paranoid of the feds.


#27    F3SS

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:53 PM

This isn't FBI but t least these OWSers were being watched...

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OCCUPY ACTIVIST & PREGNANT GIRLFRIEND BUSTED IN NYC WITH WEAPONS & A BOMB, SOURCES SAY
An Occupy Wall Street activist and his pregnant girlfriend were allegedly caught with a stash of weapons in their Greenwich Village apartment.
Aaron Greene, 31, and his pregnant girlfriend, Morgan Gliedman, 27, were apparently found to have these elements in addition to bomb-making instructions, a stack of papers with a cover sheet entitled, “The Terrorist Encyclopedia,” and other elements according to sources speaking with The New York Post.
Continued... http://www.theblaze....mb-sources-say/


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#28    Babe Ruth

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:58 PM

The government should be allowed to do whatever it wants to, because it's good for business.


#29    Order66

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:58 PM

The White House publically supported the Occupiers at the time. They are a bunch of two-faced liars. Now after the election you get to learn more about it.

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#30    Babe Ruth

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:26 PM

View PostOrder66, on 31 December 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

The White House publically supported the Occupiers at the time. They are a bunch of two-faced liars. Now after the election you get to learn more about it.

Within the 3 branches of government, the White House does NOT have a monopoly on being liars.  Indeed, mendacity is the hallmark of government.





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