34 replies to this topic

[the L]

This is offtopic but since Moderator touch the theme I will say it what is on my chest.
Personally I dont know any good site like UM to discuss this kind of matter. I wish there is one more beacuse to hear opinion of different kind of people.
Now ATS site having REALY, I mean realy bad design that my head hurts every time I went there so I stop going there. And no matter what is writting there Im not gonna read it because I love being healthy.

So OP can link ATS site as long as he want. Im not gonna click it. You can copy paste crucial parts if you want or wrote it in your words if you ask me.

Edited by the L, 25 December 2012 - 08:08 AM.

[the L]

Alternative view. Maybe they were gatherers.

[the L]

skywizard, on 24 December 2012 - 05:46 AM, said:

Photo 2.jpg

Grapes?

Edited by the L, 25 December 2012 - 08:32 AM.

[lightly]

Hi skywizard,  I've been curious about the bucket/basket thingys for years.   The 'Mesopotamian' versions.. and there are some good explanations of their importance in the cultures.    So,  I know one thing..  they are not ordinary everyday  "buckets"  or "baskets"  or "handbags"  or "purses".
     They served an important function in the belief systems of those who carved them .  To say the iconic figures are holding  ordinary buckets  would make as much sense  as the statue in the Lincoln Memorial holding a water bucket.   Or a Crucifix  .. holding a water bucket...   for no reason whatsoever.

I've also posted images of the "american"  Serpent rider with his "bucket".. because i too was struck by the similarity ..  and responses were very similar.    Welcome.

[SlimJim22]

There's plenty of reasons why bags/buckets may be ritually important but the invention itself must have been pretty celebrated. Before that I guess people could not carry much and would drop a lot of their stuff. Containers of all descriptions are something that humanity has utilized to full effect.

However, what gets me with this story is that we seem to be overlooking probably the most important unexplained question, how was stone cut and carried in mountainous and jungle regions? Always seemed like a real feat when I looked into it.

From wiki:

Quote

The quarries, from which the stone blocks used in the construction of structures at Tiwanaku came, lie at significant distances from this site. The red sandstone used in this site's structures has been determined by petrographic analysis to come from a quarry 10 kilometers away—a remarkable distance considering that the largest of these stones weighs 131 metric tons.

Here is another link http://www.richardca...an-architecture looking at similarities between Mayan and Balinese architecture.

[lightly]

Good to see you slim*     good question on how the stone was transported.  

to veer off in a different direction  ...I'd just like to show the WARM water currents that connect the two areas across the Pacific.  I think it might be that people understood how to utilize warm currents as a means of dependable conveyance.  
 ocean.current.map.jpg   210.67K   2 downloads

***
http://azer.com/aiwe...4_tangaroa.html

Guara boards
We also were able to carry out some very interesting experiments with the use of the guara boards, testing the speed and steering limitations of the ancient balsa raft. Our experience at sea convinced us that the craftsmen who made such rafts probably could have gone very far in such vessels, without ever being concerned about the possibility of sinking.

To maintain control of the raft, you need large sails, along with the knowledge of how to handle them. We used sails that were three times larger than those on Kon-Tiki. The idealized sketches [illustrating this article] show how the Tangaroa was equipped with several keels. In Peru they call these keels "guaras".

They are boards, about 12-feet in length, a couple of inches thick, and about 20 inches wide. They're made of heavy and durable wood. These boards have holes drilled through them spaced several centimeters apart, starting from the top and extending about half way down, through which wooden pins can be inserted. The pins are about a foot long with a two-inch diameter. The boards serve as a sort of rudder to steer the raft. They are constructed so that they can slide into specific slots between the bamboo floor and the balsa hull logs. These boards provide a surface area, which offer some resistance in the water beneath the vessel.

The Kon-Tiki raft was equipped with four such centerboards but they were "fixed" and could not be raised or lowered. However, the whole point of this clever invention is to raise or lower the boards depending upon the winds and currents. When the wind is constant, the direction and course of the vessel can be changed if you move the boards to a higher or lower position. For example, if you raise one of them 20 centimeters, the course can change 20 degrees. So by lifting them up and down, we learned how to steer the raft the way ancient man did. We discovered that we could even steer directly into the wind.

Apparently, Heyerdahl had not seen sketches to understand that the crew had to raise these guara boards up and down. At least that's what he wrote in "American Indians". He mentions there that if he had known how to steer the raft with centerboards, he would never have smashed into the reef off the island of Raroia in the Tuamotu Islands when they reached their destination in August 1947.

Kon-Tiki also had a steering oar, but it wasn't very functional. Consequently, the Kon-Tiki was largely subject to the whim of wind and currents because they didn't know how to sail it directly into the wind.

Vital Alsar, who organized the expedition of La Balsa raft, used guara boards on his raft in 1970 - the craft he used to sail between Peru all the way to Australia. By then it was understood how to use them.

[the L]

SlimJim22, on 25 December 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

There's plenty of reasons why bags/buckets may be ritually important but the invention itself must have been pretty celebrated. Before that I guess people could not carry much and would drop a lot of their stuff. Containers of all descriptions are something that humanity has utilized to full effect.

However, what gets me with this story is that we seem to be overlooking probably the most important unexplained question, how was stone cut and carried in mountainous and jungle regions? Always seemed like a real feat when I looked into it.

From wiki:



Here is another link http://www.richardca...an-architecture looking at similarities between Mayan and Balinese architecture.

I like your post just because Im glad that I see you. Recently I told Mentalcase that I remember the time when I joined UM when you and Mentalcase and Puzzler and similar were "runing" the show.
If I can used that terms. Well I always like your posts, how you connect things. Then always like what sceptic answered on it. We dont need to mentioned them because they are still around. Only who are not are TheSearcher and Shadowsot.

Anyway, I do hope you will comeback.



...


As I remember there was lake once near Tiwanaku.
But who sailed on boats? Caucasian?

[skywizard]

kmt_sesh, on 25 December 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

I considered this for a while myself and brought it to the attention of my Mod colleagues. The consensus is, skywizard is not promoting ATS but is only linking to a page there for the sake of further information. I am told ATS members have done the same with UM pages, so there's nothing inappropriate here, really.

However, that said, it's not something we'd want to make a habit of. So I hope you're reading this, skywizard.

On the lighter side, I also chuckled at the chronic astonishment over buckets. That diverse ancient cultures might have shared similar-looking icons is hardly something shocking, and it certainly doesn't suggest fanciful notions of alien visitors or a great, lost "mother culture."

I'd say the idea should kick the bucket.

Ha! See? Mods can have a sense of humor, too.

Sorry it took so long to get back to my thread. However since it did I have read the post kmt_sesh has posted.

I was NOT promoting or even trying to promote ATS here. The only time it was mention was in the http// where I said I thought it was worth checking out. I only posted a small part of the thread because I knew it had some mistakes (just copied and pasted, not my words). I was mainly interested in the photos, which leads me to the point I was trying to make in my thread. The similarity between not only in ancient carvings but similarities in general (pyramids, sky, star Gods myths, etc from one side of the world to the other). I know this is not hardly something shocking but I thought I would hear or learn about some new similarities that I haven’t heard or read about. I also knew I would get some joking about the photos…  (really liked the one about the “Green Lantern”)  

Hope to do better
~skywizard

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

the L, on 25 December 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

It's BERT!

[Imaginarynumber1]

Wearer of Hats, on 25 December 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

It's BERT!

Though it could still be this Burt:

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

you are a soulless abomination!

[docyabut2]

That is really is no connection to Plato`s Atlantis:)

[Harte]

kmt_sesh, on 25 December 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

On the lighter side, I also chuckled at the chronic astonishment over buckets. That diverse ancient cultures might have shared similar-looking icons is hardly something shocking, and it certainly doesn't suggest fanciful notions of alien visitors or a great, lost "mother culture."

Absolutely not.

However, it does suggest that even way back then, just like today, people figured the world was going to hell in a handbucket.

Harte

[Oniomancer]

skywizard, on 24 December 2012 - 05:46 AM, said:

Photo 3.jpg

Above, the Olmecs aka Tulas. These statues supposedly are depicting their real stature or not so far from it and below you see a very odd object positioned at waist height, as fixed in a holster.

Photo 4.jpg


According to Popol Vuh, Quetzalcoatl had provided powerful and unknown tools to Tulas that started a massive work of mining in the Andes, extracting tons of gold and other metals. This is sounding like the mining activity of the Babylonian deities, reported in the Sumerian Genesis Enuma Elish. Supposedly these mighty tools were used to cut the monster cornerstones that were used to build the stunning Aztec and Mayans urban centers.

Abe's right, you've got this completely scrambled. The sculptures above are Toltec, from Mexico, circa 800-1000 CE. well after Plato himself. Tula was their capital.  The Olmec were much earlier, the Aztecs, much later. None of them were associated with the Andes any more than the Maya.

Those doohickeys BTW are consistent with atlatls.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

docyabut2, on 26 December 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

That is really is no connection to Plato`s Atlantis:)

what, you think Plato was more of a Tom Selleck fan?