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Questioning self "Realization"


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#1    himalyanmystic

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 09:21 AM

What can we share about the idea of self realization?
What would our best imagination be about it! based on known hypotheses ?
Would be sudden or happen in stages?
would their be light energy when a person gets enlightened?
Is it only about harnessing this energy................
Many um forum members are knowledgeble so if we share..................
sometimes i think it happens sometimes i doubt it................

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#2    pitchp

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 10:53 AM

We all go back to the source(the big ball of light). One way or another we all go back to it

"The truth is out there. We are all searching for it."
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#3    himalyanmystic

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 05:05 PM

View Postpitchp, on 24 December 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

We all go back to the source(the big ball of light). One way or another we all go back to it
But the curious part about ppl in the past,present who claim to have experiences which spark the imagination of us lesser mortals..............

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#4    mayonnaise

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 08:30 AM

for me it was sudden. the first time i meditated (i was trying to have a lucid dream) i had things happen that havent happened since. i remember two nights before, i was laying with my eyes closed and just wondering why it was so dark, but now i see colors and shapes. its like before i was living life in a 2d plane.


#5    Paracelse

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 08:59 AM

View Posthimalyanmystic, on 24 December 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

But the curious part about ppl in the past,present who claim to have experiences which spark the imagination of us lesser mortals..............

All gnostics who have achieve those "experiences" have worked on it a lot.  Rabis who worked on the Kabalah since the 9th century have spent entire lives doing it.  Jacob Boehme and Master Eckhart were living in monasteries. Modern life does place an halt to much of the efforts needed to achieve "realization".  Biggest problems being eating and heating daily.

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#6    Mr Walker

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:44 AM

View Posthimalyanmystic, on 24 December 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

What can we share about the idea of self realization?
What would our best imagination be about it! based on known hypotheses ?
Would be sudden or happen in stages?
would their be light energy when a person gets enlightened?
Is it only about harnessing this energy................
Many um forum members are knowledgeble so if we share..................
sometimes i think it happens sometimes i doubt it................

I am not sure what you mean about self realisation  One can achieve increasing stages of enlightenment or consciousness, which can also be seen as path to self realisation. But there comes a time when one has to connect to the wider cosmic consciousness of the universe. Only then does one achieve full realisation of the nature of self.

Despite the physical separation of self, consciousness is not a separate entity but something which has its own qualities and characteristics. and those include an integration with the universe. Consciousness can link to other consciousnesses, to the cosmic consciousness, and can travel the universe through time and space, without taking any part of the physical body with it.

Once one experiences this, one can never see self, other, or the relationship betwen self and other in the same way again.
For me this road began in early childhood, aged about 3 or 4 when i became aware of the nature and structure of my self aware consciousness and began to work to link my conscious and subconsciousminds. it  was firmed up about age 7 when i watched "the forbidden planet"; and I  finally connected to the cosmic consciousness as a young teenager or earlier. So, for me, it was a  deliberate conscious process of enlightenment and effort over  6 to 10 years.

It took a lot of work, time, and effort, but back then all the resources came from within my self, and from wide reading and knowledge of the world. This was in the early 1960s, and there was no internet, and precious little way of studying these things. One had to work them through inside oneself in  a true process of self discovery and realization. I spent a lot of time with some like minded young friends  discussing such things, including the nature of self, reality, the universe etc. As we got into our teens we would sit out all night under the stars just talking through such things.

Empowerment includes both spiritual empowerment and physical empowerment. Many physical abilities and strengths are 'given' during the process of realization. These include, sometimes, encounters with light, heat energy, and material entities,  but generally they are a form of bionic enhancement, which is generated within ones self by external forces. One can feel them and use them but they arent obvious.

The most common form, for me, is that the connection to the cosmic consciousness gives, in itself, much knowledge and ability that I would not otherwise possess. It also transforms me physically and psychologically, in many positive and powerful ways, and has done so since I was a child. Some might argue that this empowerment  is totally a result of absolute self confidence and understanding of myself,  but i know it is a very real power which, in part, comes from outside my self.

I agree with paracelse that this was easisest to achieve as a child, because i had no worries or repsonsibilities except for minor family and school ones. I had the time and interest to spend hours  most days working on this with my mind  while doing other things, physically. I would walk for hours dividing my mind into parts that provided arguments and debates, with varying aspects of my mind taking different sides or parts. I would think like this while working on tasks at home like chopping he wood or at school  doing lessons.

But when i got older and became an "adult" aged 16-18,, first i took an interest in girls and second i had to take responsibility for every apspect of my own life. And yes, that left less time motivation, and energy .

I also now had the power, including income, to physicallyadapt myself and my environment which a child does not, and so what went on inside my head became less important and what happened in the material world grew more important.
Ps when i saw the film avatar and the life tree through which consciousness could be transferred this was not a fantasy or a story to me. I had lived this reality for over 50 years and I knew exactly where the script writers were coming from. They got that organic, planet wide, consciousness almost completely right, but actually it is not just a planet wide consciousness but a universal entity and consciousness.

Edited by Mr Walker, 25 December 2012 - 12:02 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#7    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 10:45 PM

If everything were to go according to plan, we would all become God, with a capital G. At the moment, the trendy thing to say is that we are all "presence." It's the politically correct way of saying that everything is God but trapped and limited in a material cage. For example, most of us don't have the power to change water into wine. I've never seen a levitating human be-in who also walks on water, have you?  Me, a God, with a capital G...ha ha, I can't even sell my script! I prefer that we are aspects of God like Apollo, Shiva, Isis, my cat, Ty LaVess, Shirley MacLaine, Mr Walker, DJ Vex, my wall, the dust under the carpet, etc. How about an aspect of God with tons of health problems, such as an elevated blood pressure, painful hernias, migranes, stroke? A penniless God with decaying teeth who pan handles his next meal? Worship them to your heart's content, or not -- no skin off my nose.

God. Such a singular word. It sounds so final and lonely and oblivious. Do we really want to be It? A theory is never the same as facing the actual Void and losing everything about you, the collection of your "self-ness." Death is not the same as theory. A friend has this cute quote on the bottom of her email: "Who would you be without your story?!" I always think to myself that she's getting ahead of her self. Her story is still ongoing. Spirituality is about being in the now, not in some vague future. She thinks she's already God. Ha ha, I don't think so. Call me as your hair drops out in handful. Just like another, he complains endlessly about his aches, pains, and outrageous weight, and yet, he has the nerve to tell me that he is God, always!

Edited by braveone2u, 25 December 2012 - 10:48 PM.

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#8    Mr Walker

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:25 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 25 December 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

If everything were to go according to plan, we would all become God, with a capital G. At the moment, the trendy thing to say is that we are all "presence." It's the politically correct way of saying that everything is God but trapped and limited in a material cage. For example, most of us don't have the power to change water into wine. I've never seen a levitating human be-in who also walks on water, have you?  Me, a God, with a capital G...ha ha, I can't even sell my script! I prefer that we are aspects of God like Apollo, Shiva, Isis, my cat, Ty LaVess, Shirley MacLaine, Mr Walker, DJ Vex, my wall, the dust under the carpet, etc. How about an aspect of God with tons of health problems, such as an elevated blood pressure, painful hernias, migranes, stroke? A penniless God with decaying teeth who pan handles his next meal? Worship them to your heart's content, or not -- no skin off my nose.

God. Such a singular word. It sounds so final and lonely and oblivious. Do we really want to be It? A theory is never the same as facing the actual Void and losing everything about you, the collection of your "self-ness." Death is not the same as theory. A friend has this cute quote on the bottom of her email: "Who would you be without your story?!" I always think to myself that she's getting ahead of her self. Her story is still ongoing. Spirituality is about being in the now, not in some vague future. She thinks she's already God. Ha ha, I don't think so. Call me as your hair drops out in handful. Just like another, he complains endlessly about his aches, pains, and outrageous weight, and yet, he has the nerve to tell me that he is God, always!

As to the first bolded bit, this is basically exactly right. We are all apsects of god. God, however, is more than the sum total of all other things, just as I am more then the sum total of every thing which comprises me; just as the universe is more than i am, although I am a part of the universe. The god within is not limited,  confined, or defined  by; hernia, falling hair or pain. Nor is the god without.  

The second bolded bit is mixed. We ARE our story. My dad once lost his memory of the last 40 years for a few hours, "transient global amnesia" He didnt know his wife, his children, or his story, although he knew who he was. Spirituality is and can only be about being in the now but humans think ahead and backwards. Our minds transcend time, and so our story and our spirituality, indeed our life, occupies, a past, a present and a future in our self aware consciousness.

It depends what form of god she thinks she is. We are all gods in some senses, but then some gods are more equal than others. :innocent:
As for the last bolded bit, I am not sure who the, "he' referred to is; god or me. I hadn't realised I had  told you so much about myself. But you can't refer to me. I am simply human, my weight is human, my pains are human, my aches are human, but the god within balances these things, eliminates some, and makes the existence of all of them irrelvant.

That is a part of the beauty and power of god. It matters not, in human terms, if you are  considered ugly, fat, scrawny, pimply, scarred, or missing bits and pieces; the god within remains the same, and makes us all; beautiful, complete,  and loveable/loved  Who cannot love a god, even "him"self?  What god is not worthy of love and respect,  even by "him"self?

Ps if you are a companion to a cat, then you already understand this. My favourite fridge magnet (After "My husband is blind. He still can't see things my way,") reads, "Dogs think they are humans. Cats know they are gods."

Edited by Mr Walker, 26 December 2012 - 12:30 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#9    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:28 AM

Hi Mr Walker,

View PostMr Walker, on 26 December 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

As to the first bolded bit, this is basically exactly right. We are all apsects of god. God, however, is more than the sum total of all other things, just as I am more then the sum total of every thing which comprises me; just as the universe is more than i am, although I am a part of the universe.
Could you please explain or clarify what the "I am" in your sentences?


The god within is not limited,  confined, or defined  by; hernia, falling hair or pain. Nor is the god without.  
Why is it "within" when you just said that it's not confined in a body? Where would it be if it were not inside the body? What is this god (with a lowercase "g") inside your body? Have you seen "it"?

Could you please explain or clarify your POV about the "god without," with a small "g"?


We ARE our story. My dad once lost his memory of the last 40 years for a few hours, "transient global amnesia" He didnt know his wife, his children, or his story, although he knew who he was.
When is our story the same as the "god within"? Or, is it really the same? Who weaves this story? Were does it come from? Is the story important? What's the purpose of our story?



Spirituality is and can only be about being in the now but humans think ahead and backwards. Our minds transcend time, and so our story and our spirituality, indeed our life, occupies, a past, a present and a future in our self aware consciousness.
What you're telling us is that you have access to future events? Prove to us that the future is real because a real future event or thing is not rooted in the past or present; otherwise, it won't be a future gig.

Thinking ahead, therefore, is not being spiritual -- is this correct?


It depends what form of god she thinks she is. We are all gods in some senses, but then some gods are more equal than others. :innocent:
Your word "gods" is in lowercase. I'm talking about God, the one and only. Before you answer the following question, please clarify your position.

We are either aspects of God, or we are not. If not, what are we? If we are God, then why aren't we all equal?


I am simply human, my weight is human, my pains are human, my aches are human,
What you're telling us is that you're just a mere human with all the limitations intact -- right? Or again, are you an aspect of God? Are you God? Are you god, with lowercase "g"? Which one are you?


but the god within balances these things, eliminates some, and makes the existence of all of them irrelvant.
Do you have supernatural powers?


That is a part of the beauty and power of god. It matters not, in human terms, if you are  considered ugly, fat, scrawny, pimply...
Tell that to a budding teenager, Mr Walker. LOL. Some people are either lying to themselves, or deluding themselves that the artiface is not important. Actually, I find that older people complain about their looks than most teenagers I know, not to mention their health problems, but I'm not about to argue with them about their spirituality. That would be a major social error. Then again, I live within the confines of Hollywood, where everything is so extreme, practically, and holier than thou, as in "Everyone is a god. Worship me and despair." Have you been to a Hollywood party?


the god within remains the same, and makes us all; beautiful, complete,  and loveable/loved
I like that. Quite profound, Mr Walker.

Peace.

Paul

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Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#10    Beany

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:49 AM

I feel like I'm right back where I started in regard to all of this. I had a kundalini awakening experience some years ago, though I did next to nothing to make it happen; didn't even know what it was till some months after the fact. Now, years later, I feel like like any conceptions, perceptions, understandings, etc., I have around it are vastly incomplete or no where near approaching the reality of it; I'm beginning to realize just how ignorant I still am and how much I have to learn. It's weird, I thought I knew a lot of stuff, now I'm feeling like none of it is really important in the bigger picture. Anyhoo, I think maybe self-realization, at least for me, is a matter of degrees, and it's not something I'll ever be done with, or will be done with me. And maybe it happens when we're not looking, I know there's a lot of stuff I'll never figure out, so I'm going to give up trying and devote that energy to things that make a difference here in the material world. I love being human and all that comes with it, and I'm grateful for every day I have on this planet.


#11    Serpentine

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:33 AM

Abide as the Self (<---capital S)





#12    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 07:21 AM

View PostBeany, on 26 December 2012 - 02:49 AM, said:

I feel like I'm right back where I started in regard to all of this. I had a kundalini awakening experience some years ago, though I did next to nothing to make it happen; didn't even know what it was till some months after the fact. Now, years later, I feel like like any conceptions, perceptions, understandings, etc., I have around it are vastly incomplete or no where near approaching the reality of it; I'm beginning to realize just how ignorant I still am and how much I have to learn. It's weird, I thought I knew a lot of stuff, now I'm feeling like none of it is really important in the bigger picture. Anyhoo, I think maybe self-realization, at least for me, is a matter of degrees, and it's not something I'll ever be done with, or will be done with me. And maybe it happens when we're not looking, I know there's a lot of stuff I'll never figure out, so I'm going to give up trying and devote that energy to things that make a difference here in the material world. I love being human and all that comes with it, and I'm grateful for every day I have on this planet.
Hi Beany,

I don't agree with your statement: "I feel like I'm right back where I started in regard to all of this. It's weird, I thought I knew a lot of stuff, now I'm feeling like none of it is really important in the bigger picture." Otherwise, you would not have said this: "I love being human and all that comes with it..."

Peace.

Paul

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Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#13    Mr Walker

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 08:31 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 26 December 2012 - 02:28 AM, said:

Hi Mr Walker,



Peace.

Paul
I will try to respond in away that is clear, but language is a tricky tool. If only we could mind meld.

Th e "I  am" is the I inside and the physical body. "I" am an organic body, hosting a self aware sapient consciousness. The I is both.  My consciousness and my body are a part of the universe /god but only a part. God / the universe, is a part of my body /consciousness but only a part.

god exixts within me, and in all the universe, including the bits in close proximty to them. Via god i can extend myself to those bits and they can enter into me. Like oxygen, in a way
God is just god and is the same within me and without me. ie it has energy and maerial form inside me and outside me. I have physically seen it outside me, but seeing inside yourself is harder. I cannot consciously visualise and so, like all my understandings, the god within is largely a verbal construct/entity and expressesitslef in verbal form.  However the god without can introduce visions 99and words and thoughts) unto my mind, ie my physicla body. It can heal my body by lending power and energy to it and  it can alter  my metabolic rates so i feel no fear, think more clearly, and many other things.

I am a god in a human body like christ was. The power of god, sometimes called the holy spirit, transcends that human body and its physical limitations and makes me an aspect or an avatar of god. This is true of every human being.


In my opinion our story is us, creating a golden thread in the wider tapestry of life. As self aware, free willed consciousness, we chose the warp and weft of this thread and create our pattern in the tapestry, but the universe itself is the tapestry and it is weaving itself to its own creation/evolution. Other sapient beings exist as other indpendent threads contributing to the tapestry.

Via the cosmic consciousness anyone can acces potential future events. They can create them, alter them, and shape them to their will. There is no one fixed future and there was no one fixed past, until it became the past. Only now is directly malleable, but in sculpting the instant of now, we create our patternon the tapestry, or shape the pot we are to become. And we can plan/ draft/ shape this in our minds before we act. This ability is unique to humans and to gods as far as we know so far. Thinking ahead and knowing the result of every thought and action is indeed the highest expression of human spirituality. It is what the bible creates as a metaphorical power of knowing good and evil, because we know we can choose and are responsible for the outcomes of our choices.
In my experince there is only one god i find no need to capitalise it  it is the universal cosmic consciousness but of course there might be a whole race or family of such evolved consciousnesses. I have no frame of reference to know this, I just know god. We are not equal to god because we are not as old, evolved, experienced or mature as god is. However in potential we are gods equal Thinkl of the differnce between cromagnon and a modrn man and you have a rough comparison.
There is no such thing as supernaturla powers. I have some of the powers whichcome withthe empowerment of accesing gods powers But we all have those in potentia form. These are natural powers and a natural part of what it means to be fully human.


The body and material things are NOT important, although i would rather be comfortable than uncomfortable. Our mind determines our happiness, our pain levels, our feelings etc and we are our mind. We can chose to be happy, pain free, (with some physical limitations)   We can chose never to be sad depressed lonely suffer grief etc (except where there is a physicla illness of the mind)
I know this is hard for anyone to understand especially young people I have spent some time trying to teach my fifeen year old grand niece that she is worthy of love and respect as a human being, but she still worries about being fat unpopular etc.  Some people never each the level of self realisation required to know those things are unimportant. As long as we are true to oursleves we can be proud and happy.
I do not try, in general, to teach people or preach to them.  I can only give nformation and possibilities .This proces only works when it is self actualised or realised  To me, i could live in hollywwod or on a mountain top. It is irrelavant because only what is inside yourself is important and that does not change unless you choose to change it.

One can't judge others as people, and only judge their actions where they hurt themselves or others. But i would never chose to live in a big city. I love nature as much as I love people, and am happy talking to people for hours, or spending days by myself.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#14    himalyanmystic

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 10:36 AM

View PostParacelse, on 25 December 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

All gnostics who have achieve those "experiences" have worked on it a lot.  Rabis who worked on the Kabalah since the 9th century have spent entire lives doing it.  Jacob Boehme and Master Eckhart were living in monasteries. Modern life does place an halt to much of the efforts needed to achieve "realization".  Biggest problems being eating and heating daily.

View PostParacelse, on 25 December 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

All gnostics who have achieve those "experiences" have worked on it a lot.  Rabis who worked on the Kabalah since the 9th century have spent entire lives doing it.  Jacob Boehme and Master Eckhart were living in monasteries. Modern life does place an halt to much of the efforts needed to achieve "realization".  Biggest problems being eating and heating daily.
i do realise that ppl did spend a considerable amount of time working towards it in a very focussed manner,many yogis claim to eat once a day and many have not spoken a word for years remaining in a vow of silence.................

[HIMALAYANMYSTIC

#15    himalyanmystic

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 10:41 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 25 December 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

I am not sure what you mean about self realisation  One can achieve increasing stages of enlightenment or consciousness, which can also be seen as path to self realisation. But there comes a time when one has to connect to the wider cosmic consciousness of the universe. Only then does one achieve full realisation of the nature of self.

Despite the physical separation of self, consciousness is not a separate entity but something which has its own qualities and characteristics. and those include an integration with the universe. Consciousness can link to other consciousnesses, to the cosmic consciousness, and can travel the universe through time and space, without taking any part of the physical body with it.

Once one experiences this, one can never see self, other, or the relationship betwen self and other in the same way again.
For me this road began in early childhood, aged about 3 or 4 when i became aware of the nature and structure of my self aware consciousness and began to work to link my conscious and subconsciousminds. it  was firmed up about age 7 when i watched "the forbidden planet"; and I  finally connected to the cosmic consciousness as a young teenager or earlier. So, for me, it was a  deliberate conscious process of enlightenment and effort over  6 to 10 years.

It took a lot of work, time, and effort, but back then all the resources came from within my self, and from wide reading and knowledge of the world. This was in the early 1960s, and there was no internet, and precious little way of studying these things. One had to work them through inside oneself in  a true process of self discovery and realization. I spent a lot of time with some like minded young friends  discussing such things, including the nature of self, reality, the universe etc. As we got into our teens we would sit out all night under the stars just talking through such things.

Empowerment includes both spiritual empowerment and physical empowerment. Many physical abilities and strengths are 'given' during the process of realization. These include, sometimes, encounters with light, heat energy, and material entities,  but generally they are a form of bionic enhancement, which is generated within ones self by external forces. One can feel them and use them but they arent obvious.

The most common form, for me, is that the connection to the cosmic consciousness gives, in itself, much knowledge and ability that I would not otherwise possess. It also transforms me physically and psychologically, in many positive and powerful ways, and has done so since I was a child. Some might argue that this empowerment  is totally a result of absolute self confidence and understanding of myself,  but i know it is a very real power which, in part, comes from outside my self.

I agree with paracelse that this was easisest to achieve as a child, because i had no worries or repsonsibilities except for minor family and school ones. I had the time and interest to spend hours  most days working on this with my mind  while doing other things, physically. I would walk for hours dividing my mind into parts that provided arguments and debates, with varying aspects of my mind taking different sides or parts. I would think like this while working on tasks at home like chopping he wood or at school  doing lessons.

But when i got older and became an "adult" aged 16-18,, first i took an interest in girls and second i had to take responsibility for every apspect of my own life. And yes, that left less time motivation, and energy .

I also now had the power, including income, to physicallyadapt myself and my environment which a child does not, and so what went on inside my head became less important and what happened in the material world grew more important.
Ps when i saw the film avatar and the life tree through which consciousness could be transferred this was not a fantasy or a story to me. I had lived this reality for over 50 years and I knew exactly where the script writers were coming from. They got that organic, planet wide, consciousness almost completely right, but actually it is not just a planet wide consciousness but a universal entity and consciousness.
What uve said Mr walker made a lot of sense to me thanks!!!!!!!!!!!

[HIMALAYANMYSTIC




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