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Questioning self "Realization"


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#46    himalyanmystic

himalyanmystic

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:17 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 22 March 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

You will have to explain your terms and concepts in more detail for me to be able to answer this. ( I dont really get what you are asking)
" We can clearly identify self and non self, from about the age of 2 to 4.
true we feel an identification with something and know this is me ,the self
this self which can do all these complex functions ,learn and analyse,discriminate ,
but i feel this is my mind which i think is the self and my identification of doing all these things being able to do all this is the ego?
For if i cannot do something my ego can get frustrated,my mind will get disturbed and i feel i am disturbed ,what happens is due to identification,and thought patterns and breath patterns get disturbed,
but in actual self realisation and being established in the self the same stimuli will not produce frustration or anger etc as their is freedom from these feelings and tranquil ,undisturbed calmness can possibly be achieved ,with mind focussed at any time,no boredom,no grief but tranquility,joy and uninturripted awareness,
comparing with states of enlightened beings as reference..............??????????

[HIMALAYANMYSTIC

#47    Mr Walker

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:48 PM

View Posthimalyanmystic, on 22 March 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

" We can clearly identify self and non self, from about the age of 2 to 4.
true we feel an identification with something and know this is me ,the self
this self which can do all these complex functions ,learn and analyse,discriminate ,
but i feel this is my mind which i think is the self and my identification of doing all these things being able to do all this is the ego?
For if i cannot do something my ego can get frustrated,my mind will get disturbed and i feel i am disturbed ,what happens is due to identification,and thought patterns and breath patterns get disturbed,
but in actual self realisation and being established in the self the same stimuli will not produce frustration or anger etc as their is freedom from these feelings and tranquil ,undisturbed calmness can possibly be achieved ,with mind focussed at any time,no boredom,no grief but tranquility,joy and uninturripted awareness,
comparing with states of enlightened beings as reference..............??????????

Wow My simple (and very personal) answer is this.

Once self aware and understanding the nature of self, one can link ones subconscious and conscious minds;  so that one knows  that the cause of ones conscious thoughts and actions (eg fear and response) often come from ones subconscious thoughts One can then consciously identify their subconscious thougths and the cause of those thoughts  eg what we fear and why. (Or what makes us to become angry and why, or what causes us to love, and why.)


Then/next, one can work to completely control both conscious an subconscious thoughts, via one's conscious will. eg to eliminate fear via understanding of its cause and its nature. With practice, one's self is in indpendent and conscious control of all ones psychological responses and many of our physical ones.

Eg without intellectual/emotional fear, the body has no physiological symptoms of fear. The mind does not panic, and the body does not tremble or prepare for fight or flight, leaving one able to utilise more effective responses to danger from one's intellect. So, getting disturbed or angered is a conscious choice.  we are conditioned to these responses and learn them from birth.

BUT! You can chose NOT to get disturbed or angered, and learn how to control,  adapt and make other emotional /intellectual chices about your emotional responses. You learned how to get distrubed and angry and you can learn how not to.
This applies to all/every human intellectual /emotional response; from hate/love, to greed/altruism, envy/self esteem, jealousy compassion fear etc.

So you are absolutely correct. It goes by many names, but yes, this is a part of human enlightenment. it could also be called simply a psychological neurological reality of the nature of human thought and awreness if you dont like "mystical" terms. It isn't really metaphysical but a physical reality of the nature of human beings. No one has to live with fear or anger. Love and joy and other positive emotional states of awareness, are alternate states which anyone can enter at will, and by choice, using self discipline and learned responses.

For example, I can pass throughthe death of a person I love dearly without any negative emotions. That doesnt mean i dont grieve or feel loss, but i turn that into productive thoughts such as memories a d feeliings from the times i spent with them As a practical  result i am asked to do eulogies for most of my friends families and close colleagues where i put thse thoughts and memories on paper and into words.

I dont blame others for a perosns death or blame them for dying. I feel no anger etc. In part that is beacuse i know that the person wil alwys be with me until I die i can walk withthem and talk withem in my memory and  mind.They wil not grow or chnge enymore but who and what they were to me cannot be altered alythough my understanding of them may grow after their death, as i think about them.
Everything i knew and understood about them remains otherwise  unchanged and unchanging within me, just as if they were still alive.

I have lost my house and everything e aquired over 50 years including many family treasures and antiques going back two centuries, and a finanacial cost of  over $150000, and not had a moment of anger, worry, depression or concern at that loss, because even the most precious possesion is only a material object and its significance (for me) again lies within my memories.

Edited by Mr Walker, 23 March 2013 - 11:02 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#48    himalyanmystic

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 11:37 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 23 March 2013 - 10:48 PM, said:

Wow My simple (and very personal) answer is this.

Once self aware and understanding the nature of self, one can link ones subconscious and conscious minds;  so that one knows  that the cause of ones conscious thoughts and actions (eg fear and response) often come from ones subconscious thoughts One can then consciously identify their subconscious thougths and the cause of those thoughts  eg what we fear and why. (Or what makes us to become angry and why, or what causes us to love, and why.)


Then/next, one can work to completely control both conscious an subconscious thoughts, via one's conscious will. eg to eliminate fear via understanding of its cause and its nature. With practice, one's self is in indpendent and conscious control of all ones psychological responses and many of our physical ones.

Eg without intellectual/emotional fear, the body has no physiological symptoms of fear. The mind does not panic, and the body does not tremble or prepare for fight or flight, leaving one able to utilise more effective responses to danger from one's intellect. So, getting disturbed or angered is a conscious choice.  we are conditioned to these responses and learn them from birth.

BUT! You can chose NOT to get disturbed or angered, and learn how to control,  adapt and make other emotional /intellectual chices about your emotional responses. You learned how to get distrubed and angry and you can learn how not to.
This applies to all/every human intellectual /emotional response; from hate/love, to greed/altruism, envy/self esteem, jealousy compassion fear etc.

So you are absolutely correct. It goes by many names, but yes, this is a part of human enlightenment. it could also be called simply a psychological neurological reality of the nature of human thought and awreness if you dont like "mystical" terms. It isn't really metaphysical but a physical reality of the nature of human beings. No one has to live with fear or anger. Love and joy and other positive emotional states of awareness, are alternate states which anyone can enter at will, and by choice, using self discipline and learned responses.

For example, I can pass throughthe death of a person I love dearly without any negative emotions. That doesnt mean i dont grieve or feel loss, but i turn that into productive thoughts such as memories a d feeliings from the times i spent with them As a practical  result i am asked to do eulogies for most of my friends families and close colleagues where i put thse thoughts and memories on paper and into words.

I dont blame others for a perosns death or blame them for dying. I feel no anger etc. In part that is beacuse i know that the person wil alwys be with me until I die i can walk withthem and talk withem in my memory and  mind.They wil not grow or chnge enymore but who and what they were to me cannot be altered alythough my understanding of them may grow after their death, as i think about them.
Everything i knew and understood about them remains otherwise  unchanged and unchanging within me, just as if they were still alive.

I have lost my house and everything e aquired over 50 years including many family treasures and antiques going back two centuries, and a finanacial cost of  over $150000, and not had a moment of anger, worry, depression or concern at that loss, because even the most precious possesion is only a material object and its significance (for me) again lies within my memories.
Seeking continues................but Mr Walker u really do try to help others may Shiva bless you thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I respect ur wisdom and intention..........:)

[HIMALAYANMYSTIC




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