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Fait Accompli? Will Egypt Be Islamist?


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#16    Lion6969

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:35 PM

You do realise there was a democratic process that brought Mursi into power, the same principles of voting and balloting were employed in Egypt.

Democracy is an elected rule of the majority, not the minority. The constitution went to a referendum and it received 60%+ votes in favour! That's democracy and now put in your pipe and smoke it!!!


#17    and then

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:43 PM

View PostLion6969, on 28 December 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

You do realise there was a democratic process that brought Mursi into power, the same principles of voting and balloting were employed in Egypt.

Democracy is an elected rule of the majority, not the minority. The constitution went to a referendum and it received 60%+ votes in favour! That's democracy and now put in your pipe and smoke it!!!
The election was boycotted by well over half the population in protest of Morsi and his self appointed clique.  I read that 60% +  of about 18 % of the population voted for the document.  That sir, is not democracy.  And if the people of Egypt don't stand NOW, they'll be on their knees for many years to come I'm afraid.

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#18    Lion6969

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:05 PM

View Postand then, on 28 December 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

The election was boycotted by well over half the population in protest of Morsi and his self appointed clique.  I read that 60% +  of about 18 % of the population voted for the document.  That sir, is not democracy.  And if the people of Egypt don't stand NOW, they'll be on their knees for many years to come I'm afraid.

There are many different reports out there I personally read between the lines ;)

Mursi was voted in by a majority, the Egyptian majority is Muslim, therefore it's logically and democratically follows that majority rules democractically. This is democracy 101, when the status quo was evicted (Mubarak), clearly a democratic process took place, observed etc. Logically majority are Muslim and voted for those who most represent their views etc. Hence Mursi comes to power, the constitution is the choice of the majority to reform their country politically and judicially. This is democracy, but I guessits only democracy if it suits us in the west ;)


#19    and then

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:20 PM

View PostLion6969, on 28 December 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

There are many different reports out there I personally read between the lines ;)

Mursi was voted in by a majority, the Egyptian majority is Muslim, therefore it's logically and democratically follows that majority rules democractically. This is democracy 101, when the status quo was evicted (Mubarak), clearly a democratic process took place, observed etc. Logically majority are Muslim and voted for those who most represent their views etc. Hence Mursi comes to power, the constitution is the choice of the majority to reform their country politically and judicially. This is democracy, but I guessits only democracy if it suits us in the west ;)
I am not Egyptian and I have no "skin in the game" as it were.  But I am a human being who loves being free and the reports I hear are that this election was boycotted by the majority of voters AND still had irregularities that might  indicate fraud.  Ultimately we'll see what the truth is by watching Tahrir square.  I suspect that this February's anniversary may be busy there.

Edited by and then, 28 December 2012 - 06:29 PM.

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#20    Lion6969

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:24 PM

View Postand then, on 28 December 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

I am not Egyptian and I have no "skin in the game" as it were.  But I am a human being who loves being free and the reports I hear are that this election was boycotted by the majority of voters AND still had irregularities that might could indicate fraud.  Ultimately we'll see what the truth is by watching Tahrir square.  I suspect that this February's anniversary may be busy there.

What you don't realise is not matter what really happens your media sources will only show the opposition protesting and not report that Mursi told his supporters not to come out in case there was clashes, but when his support comes out it's the overwhelming majority. The majority have a right to rule democratically regardless of how we view it!


#21    and then

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:32 PM

View PostLion6969, on 28 December 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

What you don't realise is not matter what really happens your media sources will only show the opposition protesting and not report that Mursi told his supporters not to come out in case there was clashes, but when his support comes out it's the overwhelming majority. The majority have a right to rule democratically regardless of how we view it!
I totally agree that the majority should lead.   If Egypt chooses to be an Islamist state and follow a Taliban style government then I feel for them.  But as you said - their business, not mine.  But a "minority" decided not to accept the status quo in Syria also and look where that went.

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#22    Lion6969

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:41 PM

View Postand then, on 28 December 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

I totally agree that the majority should lead.   If Egypt chooses to be an Islamist state and follow a Taliban style government then I feel for them.  But as you said - their business, not mine.  But a "minority" decided not to accept the status quo in Syria also and look where that went.

Personally I think there certain agencies at play in these regions trying cause civil wars etc, Syria has an uprising and I believe it's their problem to solve like the Egyptians did, we can support without going in by other means. I don't mind what happens as long as there is no massacre, but that's inevitable when you have nut job dictators in charge like saddat! There is an Islamic uprising which is not a threat to us in the west, it's a threat to the dictators and our leaders who support and fund them. So more of these despots out the better it is, there is a vacuum and these nations are Muslim nations and all they want is equality, justice etc but they want it to be Islamic, which is who they are and their identities, naturally they will vote for those who represent them best

:)


#23    Paracelse

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:58 PM

View Postand then, on 27 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

Maybe, Eald...but I doubt it would be THAT easy here - nothing is :w00t:  we shoot at each other for fun sometimes - you can imagine what we'd do to outsiders.

Just like Eald says in EU they are welcomed, showered with working class people's money and then they insults us in our daily life.  They attempt to destroy churches (over 450 churches have been found tagged with anti-christian libels, or burned or plainly destroyed inside.  Churches of France are now closed and you can only get in with someone who has the key).

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#24    Lion6969

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:12 PM

View PostParacelse, on 28 December 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:



Just like Eald says in EU they are welcomed, showered with working class people's money and then they insults us in our daily life.  They attempt to destroy churches (over 450 churches have been found tagged with anti-christian libels, or burned or plainly destroyed inside.  Churches of France are now closed and you can only get in with someone who has the key).

Lmao!!! Christianity is dying western Europe fella, the churches are burnt down for insurance claims cause they can't maintain them as no one attends churches anymore lol!

Instead they burn them down, claim insurance, then sell the land. Either way destroyed or not, we Muslims pay out of our own pockets purchase these dead places of worship (churches) and convert them to mosques for hundreds and thousands of western Europeans who convert to Islam, largest number happens to be western Caucasian women.

So don't worry about the churches at least they still being used all be it in a different way by Muslims but both religions worship the same god.


#25    odas

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:13 PM

View Postand then, on 28 December 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

The election was boycotted by well over half the population in protest of Morsi and his self appointed clique.  I read that 60% +  of about 18 % of the population voted for the document.  That sir, is not democracy.  And if the people of Egypt don't stand NOW, they'll be on their knees for many years to come I'm afraid.
This nothing different then in many other western democratic countries. Although the percentage of those who voted in canadian federal elections was much higher, about 60% I believe, the current majority government received minority votes, combining all votes and those absent ones.
The question is, like it or not this was a democratic vote and Mursi one fair by all democratic rules, why did the opposition not bother to vote? In this instsnce the opposition acted undemocratic. If you dont vote you dont have a right to complain. Before we put the blame on the ever bad guy, speak muslim, in charge lets wait. I think that Mursi is not that bad. So far he did not wage war against any country and he does not have nuklear weapons like a neighbouring state. Wait and see.


#26    Paracelse

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:25 PM

View PostLion6969, on 28 December 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

Lmao!!! Christianity is dying western Europe fella, the churches are burnt down for insurance claims cause they can't maintain them as no one attends churches anymore lol!

Instead they burn them down, claim insurance, then sell the land. Either way destroyed or not, we Muslims pay out of our own pockets purchase these dead places of worship (churches) and convert them to mosques for hundreds and thousands of western Europeans who convert to Islam, largest number happens to be western Caucasian women.

So don't worry about the churches at least they still being used all be it in a different way by Muslims but both religions worship the same god.
My god has a hammer ;) and he doesn't allow the rape of 10 years old.

Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither Benjamin Franklin
République No.6
It's time for a sixth republic.

#27    and then

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:33 PM

View PostParacelse, on 28 December 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

My god has a hammer ;) and he doesn't allow the rape of 10 years old.
So true.  And without having this devolve into an anti Islam thread I will say that the people of Europe are welcome to worship whom they will.  But a cursory reading of the New Testament and the Qur'an leaves no doubt that the two deities are almost exact opposites in personality.  The exciting thing for me as a Christian is that I believe we will very soon now see our Lord return and all doubt will be removed.  Until then, things will play out just as they are meant to.  MARANATHA!

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  for what could be, the darkest age...

#28    odas

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:40 PM

View Postand then, on 28 December 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

So true.  And without having this devolve into an anti Islam thread I will say that the people of Europe are welcome to worship whom they will.  But a cursory reading of the New Testament and the Qur'an leaves no doubt that the two deities are almost exact opposites in personality.  The exciting thing for me as a Christian is that I believe we will very soon now see our Lord return and all doubt will be removed.  Until then, things will play out just as they are meant to.  MARANATHA!
And a cursory reading of the OT and the NT leaves no doubt that the two deities are not almost but completely opposit in personality.

I am a very reasonable man who respects everyones religion but there is a point when I have to stop respecting when my religion is not respected.
YOU have created the NT and continue to create it the way it pleases you. The bible HAS been alterd, things taken out or put in throu the years.
The quran is what it is. Like it or not.


#29    meryt-tetisheri

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:16 PM

View Postodas, on 28 December 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

This nothing different then in many other western democratic countries. Although the percentage of those who voted in canadian federal elections was much higher, about 60% I believe, the current majority government received minority votes, combining all votes and those absent ones.
The question is, like it or not this was a democratic vote and Mursi one fair by all democratic rules, why did the opposition not bother to vote? In this instsnce the opposition acted undemocratic. If you dont vote you dont have a right to complain. Before we put the blame on the ever bad guy, speak muslim, in charge lets wait. I think that Mursi is not that bad. So far he did not wage war against any country and he does not have nuklear weapons like a neighbouring state. Wait and see.

Posted Image

Have a good look at the lower half of this ballot box before asserting that the referendum was "fair by all democratic rules" because in this case these rules appear to be breaking the 'rules of physics'.

Odas please don't mingle politics with religion; most of those who oppose the MB are just as Muslim as they are; even more so I would say, because they are not opportunistic and do not use their faith to attain power at any price.


#30    Black Red Devil

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:23 AM

My impression is that this in Egypt was never an Islamic revolution.  Neither was the one in Lybia, Yemen, Tunisia or is the one in Syria etc.  The Arab spring revolution, as far as I'm aware, started off as a protest against ruling despots, crooks and dictators, some of which were pro western (Mubarak for example) and some weren't (Ghaddafi).  Some of the uprises were even influenced by the West.  None of these nations were previously secular before the revolution and all were influenced by a geopolitical policy where the majority Muslim and Islam influenced in one way or another, their political systems.

Therefore, analysing the above, it doesn't make sense that Muslims would revolt against their Govt's so they could become more pro Islamic.  Unless you want to believe all Muslims have a Taliban philosophy.

The simple answer is that the majority of Muslims are moderate and want a better life for their families.  They do follow their religious beliefs but only a small number are fanatics.  The problem with the ME is that you have Islamic groups such as the MB, who was never a political party but started off as a religious movement back in the 1930's, succeed in gaining some popularity through anti western propaganda (and associating it with a religious resistance against Christianity and Judaism).

This because the west is seen as the great evil and can you blame the average Muslim in believing there is a line of truth in this propaganda when they see what’s happening in Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine or when they constantly hear beating drums against Iran for things Israel gets away with?
I don’t want to turn this thread into an anti western or Israeli bashing but this, IMO, the reason Islamic fundamentalism prospers in fertile land.

Nevertheless, I’m pretty certain given the right conditions, many Muslims would be more than happy to live in a secular society, including the majority of Egyptians and I too believe the elections were rigged.

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil, 29 December 2012 - 04:25 AM.

We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell

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