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Crop Circles just one sign of Revelation


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#1216    laver

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 01:01 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 29 September 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:

And what was an early symbol for Christianity? That's right, a fish, which in Latin is Pisces. From which derives the word "piscis". :rolleyes:

It does no such thing as none of those churches existed thousands of years ago.

cormac

The churches certainly did not exist thousands of years ago, but the sites did

and as we have seen in previous posts the early Christian church had a policy of reusing

existing 'sacred' or 'holy' sites from previous beliefs.

This is why David Furlong proposed that his circle markers, much later church sites, could have

very ancient origins - a quite valid proposition as other markers go back to at least the

time that Avebury was built about 3000BCE. The landscape geometry could thus date from this

time or earlier.

Yes, the Vesica Piscis is often called the 'pool of fishes' and Jesus is closely associated in biblical

accounts with fish and fishermen. But he is also associated with the Vesica Piscis through the

number '153' the number of large fish caught miraculously by the shores of the Sea of Galilee

near Magdala.


#1217    DieChecker

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 01:24 AM

View Postlaver, on 29 September 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

Vesica - an almond shaped aureole in the shape of a pointed oval
This is the shape in the middle when two circles overlap

Vesica Piscis - usually refers to a special case vesica where the center of each
circle lies on the circumference of the other.

In the case of the Furlong discoveries his  2 circle centers have been designed and
set out on the landscape the right distance apart to specifically replicate the Great Pyramid geometry
so that an equilateral triangle off these circle centers gives the correct pyramid height related to the vesica
width. This uses the established actual height to base ratio of the Great Pyramid of 7 / 11.
His vesica also demonstrates this ratio of 7 / 11 in its height and width.

This amazing construction designed and marked out on the landscape of Wiltshire apparently thousands
of years ago takes us to the location where the Kings chamber in the pyramid falls on the Wiltshire
countryside -  Temple Farm  near Marlborough

View Postlaver, on 29 September 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

Just a reminder of what this looks like from a previous post - it is as shown by David Furlong on page 113
of his book 'The Keys to the Temple'

Posted Image

Wait, wait, wait....

Just looking at the picture, I can see that the pyramid touches only at the midpoints of both sides of the vesica. Any and all triangles could do the same. The ratio of height to base has zero to do with if a triangle would fit there. The circle on the pyramid also does not touch anything interesting. As does the parallelogram. You could put a much stubbier Aztec pyramid in there, or a much thinner Nubian pyramid, or a very flat Chinese pyramid. And all would fit the same as the Egyptian GP. The only reason the GP is needed is because of the King's Chamber.

"In the case of the Furlong discoveries his  2 circle centers have been designed and set out on the landscape the right distance apart to specifically replicate the Great Pyramid geometry..."
Except any triangle will fit in there.

"...so that an equilateral triangle off these circle centers gives the correct pyramid height related to the vesica width."
I thought the GP was "nearly" and equilateral triangle. With the sides going up at 58 degrees and the peak being 62 degrees. That is a difference of 4 degrees, which is actually pretty significant. Maybe your Temple Farm is not the real target?

"This uses the established actual height to base ratio of the Great Pyramid of 7 / 11.
His vesica also demonstrates this ratio of 7 / 11 in its height and width."


I was just reading up on the height to base ratio on an equilateral triangle and the concensus of people giving advice to high school and college students online is it is about 86%, or 0.86. Where as a 7/11 ratio is about 0.64. Are you sure you're doing that math right?
http://answers.yahoo...23053057AAWS95X

if x (base) =10 and side (equilateral right?) = 10, then y = sqrt (z^2 - (x/2)^2) = sqrt (10^2 - (10/2)^2) = sqrt (100 - 25) = sqrt 75 = 8.66. Thus because we used 10 as our length, we can see that the ratio is 0.866....

So how does the base-height ratio equal 7/11 (0.64)? It should be 9.5/11......

Maybe this was already covered, but it feels like if it was then Laver would not still be talking about 7/11....

Edited by DieChecker, 30 September 2013 - 01:25 AM.

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#1218    cormac mac airt

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 01:33 AM

View Postlaver, on 30 September 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

The churches certainly did not exist thousands of years ago, but the sites did

and as we have seen in previous posts the early Christian church had a policy of reusing

existing 'sacred' or 'holy' sites from previous beliefs.

This is why David Furlong proposed that his circle markers, much later church sites, could have

very ancient origins
- a quite valid proposition as other markers go back to at least the

time that Avebury was built about 3000BCE. The landscape geometry could thus date from this

time or earlier.

Yes, the Vesica Piscis is often called the 'pool of fishes' and Jesus is closely associated in biblical

accounts with fish and fishermen. But he is also associated with the Vesica Piscis through the

number '153' the number of large fish caught miraculously by the shores of the Sea of Galilee

near Magdala.

He has neither provided evidence to support this contention nor has he actually shown that landscape geometry shows actual circles. What he has done was create a circle with a circa 6 mile radius, place it on a map of Wiltshire, see that several ancient monuments and churches fall within that circle and then claim that they actually fall on the circumference of said circle. Which means he's manipulated his data to say something it doesn't and you've been foolish enough to believe him. Then he attempts to connect this manipulated data to the Great Pyramid with a meaningless "ratio", and again you've bought into it. All of which shows that neither of you know anything meaningful about ratios or their relationship to pyramids and pyramid construction.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1219    stereologist

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 02:31 AM

View Postlaver, on 30 September 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

The churches certainly did not exist thousands of years ago, but the sites did

and as we have seen in previous posts the early Christian church had a policy of reusing

existing 'sacred' or 'holy' sites from previous beliefs.

This is why David Furlong proposed that his circle markers, much later church sites, could have

very ancient origins - a quite valid proposition as other markers go back to at least the

time that Avebury was built about 3000BCE. The landscape geometry could thus date from this

time or earlier.

Yes, the Vesica Piscis is often called the 'pool of fishes' and Jesus is closely associated in biblical

accounts with fish and fishermen. But he is also associated with the Vesica Piscis through the

number '153' the number of large fish caught miraculously by the shores of the Sea of Galilee

near Magdala.

That makes as much sense as claiming that these circles are associated with Creataceous dinosaurs. It's a valid proposition since the churches have reused existing dinosaurs haunts. The circles might even be 100 million years old.

Seriously, these circles are not even landscape geometry according to your definition. The circles are modern and have no age earlier than the time Furlong made them up.


#1220    laver

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 11:24 PM

TEMPLE FARM and onward.......

Any UM user who has been following this thread and missed a few earlier posts might be wondering
why Temple Farm, an estate near Marlborough in Wiltshire, southern Britain should be so important.

According to the David Furlong proposals detailed in his book 'The Keys to the Temple', published in
1997 by Piatkus, the design of the Great Pyramid is an integral part of the landscape geometry of two
overlapping circles he discovered on the Marlborough Downs which he believed to be of very ancient
origin. The circles were, and are, marked by ancient sites and church sites with the present structures
on these sites being dated back to many hundreds of years ago; but the 'holy' ground on which they
were built may well, due to church policy, have very much older sacred significance from pre-Christian
times. The biggest Neolithic stone circle in Britain, maybe the world, is on one of Furlong's circles and this
has been dated to about 3000 BCE, so some 5000 years old.

Now the idea that the Great Pyramid design could be linked to a landscape layout in Britain of sites set out
thousands of years ago does seem very strange. When I first read Furlong's book 'The Keys to the Temple'
years ago my initial reaction was one of great surprise at his proposals but looking at maps and studying it
further the landscape geometry and its relationship to this pyramid design was evident and clear so this had
to be due to either some amazing coincidence or it was an ancient design. From finds of Egyptian items in
burial sites in Britain it was clear that there was some sort of contact between Egypt and Britain thousands
of years ago.
But if this included landscape geometry in Britain on a huge scale and the design and construction of the
Great Pyramid at Giza in Egypt it would have to have been a massive undertaking with some purpose in
mind. Why would people thousands of years ago have carried out this huge task ?
Was it meant to be discovered at some time in the distant future ?
The Furlong landscape proposals using this pyramid design indicated a particular location on the Wiltshire
countryside close to Rockley, near Marlborough, a farm called Temple Farm.
Was this location so important in some way that its identification would have justified the extraordinary amount
of work involved in both Britain and Egypt all those years ago ?

All we really know about Temple Farm is that it is located in an area with many ancient sites, is close to Avebury
Henge, on one of Furlong's circles, and was back in the 12th century a base of some sort for the Knights Templar
hence its name.
David Furlong mentions its Templar connections in his book and writes at the end of Chapter 4

'It is also said that they (the Knights Templar) knew about hidden powers within the landscape, invoking these
energies in their rituals, and that their esoteric knowledge was incorporated into the hidden geometry found
within the proportions of Gothic cathedrals'
The Keys to the Temple - page 67

This is just heresay, but the design and inspiration for the Gothic cathedrals must have come from somewhere and the
sites used were once again often places that had 'sacred' origins that go back to pre-Christian times.
It has not been established if the Knights Templar had a hand in this construction programme but they were, until closed
down starting in 1307, a very powerful organisation in Europe not only in the church but also starting the first banking
system.
Temple Farm near Marlborough was a Knights Templar base but of no apparent significance as there were Templar
properties in many places which retain the name down to the present day.
If Temple Farm had a particular importance to the Templars because of its position as a focal point of very ancient
landscape geometry, as is now coming to light, this knowledge would have been a secret, as the landscape geometry
with its links to the Great Pyramid was a secret, and probably only known to a very few of the organisation.
One can speculate that this huge secret was kept for a reason and that this was because at some time it
would be revealed.
After all there is not much point in having a secret over hundreds, thousands, of years if it is not at some time to be
revealed.
This thread on UM is all about whether this is the time it is being revealed..... a time of Revelation ?

Since this thread has been running one poster - bee - has given details of a strange named 'head' shape found in the landscape just to the north of Temple Farm, her posts give details of her discovery and because of her interest in the
the work of David Furlong and his book she thought there could be a link to Temple Farm. She noted that the stories
about the Templars include accounts of them venerating 'heads' which would seem to be the case from details that
come out of the period when they were being disbanded.
It seems very unlikely that Templars generally knew about this 'head' at Temple Farm or it would have come out
when many were tortured and burnt at the stake. But the symbol of the head and maybe 'wisdom' was clearly
venerated and this could relate to the 'bee' head near Temple Farm because it took 'wisdom' on the part of David
Furlong to find his twin circles and 'wisdom / inspiration' to spot the Great Pyramid connection and identify Temple
Farm. It also took 'wisdom' on the part of 'bee' to spot the 'head' and see the possible link to Temple Farm.
A clue may have been left in the landscape from long ago and named like many other Templar sites around
Britain, and the 'bee head' may be that clue.

So why Temple Farm in southern Britain as a site to point to and guide people to at some time in the future, seemingly
thousands of years into the future, by using simple math and geometry ?
Research showed that it is the focal point of long distance Great Circle bearings to various ancient locations but for the purpose of this thread on UM we will look at its bearings to the Holy Land and how bearing lines highlight the church
sites chosen for the Book of Revelations.

In the Book of Revelations, the last book of the bible, the first 3 Chapters are dedicated to messages from Christ to the churches of Asia ( modern day Turkey) and these 7 named church locations are

Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea

In chapter 1 verse 20 we are told there is a 'secret meaning' in these 7 churches and on this UM thread it is suggested
that this 'secret meaning' is the geometric layout of these churches with 5 being highlighted by a bearing from
Temple Farm of 110 degrees which goes to Turkey and then crosses the Mediterranean and Cyprus to the Holy Land
at Mount Arbel / Magdala on the shores of the Sea of Galilee, an area so important to the New Testament stories
about Jesus.
So we have a link through landscape geometry from Ancient Egypt with the Great Pyramid and the ancient spiritual
beliefs of that area to Britain and then to the Holy Land and the biblical accounts of Jesus and Mary of Magdala who
as we shall see would seem to have been aware of this amazing design.


#1221    Swede

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 12:44 AM

View Postlaver, on 01 October 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

TEMPLE FARM and onward.......

Bert: Merely a note or two+:
  • Has it ever entered your "sphere of research"/mentality to actually investigate/acknowledge the rather extensive information with which you have already been presented (courtesy of numerous worthy contributors) ?

  • Did you actually take the time to read the clear rebuttal to the arguments presented by Bee?

  • Did you actually take the time to read and digest the extensive rebuttals to virtually every single fanciful "point" of your spurious position?

  • Do you have the internal capacity to realize that you repeatedly cite a fraud   

  • Do you have the personal courage to acknowledge that your understandings of simple mathematical functions are sorely lacking and are based upon the mathematical inadequacies of a demonstrable fraud?
And lastly, and most emphatically, do you, in any manner, understand the definition of the term redundancy?

Please do address the above in detail.

Edit: Format.

Edited by Swede, 02 October 2013 - 12:48 AM.


#1222    DieChecker

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 12:58 AM

View PostSwede, on 02 October 2013 - 12:44 AM, said:

Do you have the internal capacity to realize that you repeatedly cite a fraud

I don't know that it is a Fraud. It is just not special. Anyone could go around in a country like England and draw somewhat large circles using "special" spots on a map, and then pin down a "super special" place in that geometry using a famous structure's layout. It should be relatively easy to do. So, it is not fraud, but perhaps misrepresentation as being special, which I think it is not.

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#1223    stereologist

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 02:44 AM

What I find rather strange is the definition of landscape geometry given by laver that conflicts with Furlong's circles.

It is also strange that the title of thread seems to have been forgotten. The installation art called crop circles seems to no longer be of interest.

Now the discussion is turning to the woo of "energies" and other malarkey.


#1224    stereologist

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 02:47 AM

I think this is fraud. I'm not using the term in any legal sense. But it is dishonest. It is deceitful. It is based on misrepresentations and outright lies. It is being willfully continued despite the clear and unequivocal evidence against. Yes,it is fraud.


#1225    AtlantisRises

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:44 AM

Personally I think that if this thread isn't about Crop Circles anymore or Revelation anymore that the thread has outlived it's purpose. Fair enough every thread wanders off topic now and then but this thread doesn't seem to have ever actually have been on topic.

Posted Image

#1226    laver

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:42 AM

View PostSwede, on 02 October 2013 - 12:44 AM, said:

Bert: Merely a note or two+:
  • Has it ever entered your "sphere of research"/mentality to actually investigate/acknowledge the rather extensive information with which you have already been presented (courtesy of numerous worthy contributors) ?


  • Did you actually take the time to read the clear rebuttal to the arguments presented by Bee?


  • Did you actually take the time to read and digest the extensive rebuttals to virtually every single fanciful "point" of your spurious position?


  • Do you have the internal capacity to realize that you repeatedly cite a fraud   


  • Do you have the personal courage to acknowledge that your understandings of simple mathematical functions are sorely lacking and are based upon the mathematical inadequacies of a demonstrable fraud?
And lastly, and most emphatically, do you, in any manner, understand the definition of the term redundancy?

Please do address the above in detail.

Edit: Format.

1. Worthy contributors ?
    or debunkers who some reason do not want to accept that the height to base ratio of the Great Pyramid
    is 7 / 11 or that Pi as demonstrated as a key to the pyramid message of the 'circle'.

Once again - height 481ft divided by 7 = 68.71ft
    How many 68.71 units fit the base dimension of 756 ft ?
    68.71ft x 11 = 755.85 ft (756)

We can now with confidence use the 7 / 11 ratio to take the shape of the Great Pyramid and, as David Furlong
did, see how it fits the twin circle landscape geometry he had discovered on the Marlborough Downs.
This ratio was used twice by the 'designers / builders' of the Furlong discovery, in the pyramid shape and in the
vesica formed by his circles in which the pyramid lies.
This leads to Temple Farm as a significant location.

2. The 'bee' named 'head' exists very close to Temple Farm and we can at present only speculate if that is linked
to Temple Farm and this ancient Knights Templar base.

3. Covered by point 1.

4. I am just looking at the work of a published author and have done a little research to see what we might be able
to learn from his work, clearly over many years, and discoveries leading to Temple Farm.
Your use of the word 'fraud' is disingenuous and in my opinion false.

5. See point 4

This thread on UM points out certain facts of which other UM users might not be aware or the significance of which
might have been overlooked.
Another UM user has already added to my knowledge with further data and I fully expect others to take up the story
and maybe come up with further useful information in the future.
My contribution is just another piece in a long running jigsaw puzzle for other UM users to consider.
I am not asking them to believe anything but just to note the facts on which they can then maybe reach
an informed opinion.


#1227    laver

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:59 AM

View PostAtlantisRises, on 02 October 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

Personally I think that if this thread isn't about Crop Circles anymore or Revelation anymore that the thread has outlived it's purpose. Fair enough every thread wanders off topic now and then but this thread doesn't seem to have ever actually have been on topic.

There have been a couple of comments about crop circles not being discussed.

It is clear that there are different 'camps' on the issue of crop design of which I am a member of neither because I have looked
at the evidence and believe that on this evidence the appearance of some crop designs remains a mystery.

It is a part of the title of this thread because I had noted the fact that over many years the focal point of crop circle activity has
been Wiltshire in southern Britain which is also the location of the landscape geometry found by David Furlong leading to Temple Farm
as a focal point.
This location leads to alignments or bearings to the Holy Land one of which highlghts churches of Revelation and seems to be of
very ancient origins.
We do not know how this landscape geometry could have been set out thousands of years BCE and that is also a mystery.

To draw UM users attention to the geographical link between these two mysteries with connections to the last book of the bible,
the Book of Revelations, seems quite valid when considering if there are signs that this might be a time of Revelation ?


#1228    Skithia

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 12:26 PM

Laver do you believe that way back in antiquity bronze age or even earlier Neolithic Britons went out and chose these sites that you think are in 2 big circles that David Furlong 'discovered'? That these Ancient Britons deliberately chose to place their sacred sites in these 2 circles so that they would represent the great pyramid at giza within the vesica? What about what we do have about the beliefs of Ancient Britons that they would make a spring sacred or 3 trees growing in a group or any sort of crossroad - none of these places would be sacred because people chose to place anything there - they would originally been sacred because of what was there.


#1229    stereologist

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 12:58 PM

All there is in this thread is numerology. It is as pointless and nutty as the singer that dropped the silent 'e' off the end of her name to improve her career because of the claims of a numerologist. Yes, that did happen. It makes more sense than the unrelated jumble of nonsense in this thread.

From Laver in http://www.unexplain...85#entry4930805

Quote

Landscape Geometry - in my opinion and the way I use the term it is the non random selection of
sites / locations on the landscape but in accordance with some method or plan. Natural features
can also be a part of this method or plan.

I already pointed out that there was a problem with the definition of landscape geometry in this post.
http://www.unexplain...15#entry4935653

Do Furlong's circles fit into that definition?

Edited by stereologist, 02 October 2013 - 01:11 PM.


#1230    stereologist

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 01:10 PM

One of the main forms of argument by laver in this thread is the appeal to incredulity.

The basic idea is that laver posts a lot of unrelated stuff and then states that it simply isn't possible to make all of this up. The argument has been used with crop circles. The argument suggests that it simply isn't possible that every crop circle is man made. Laver is incredulous that all crop circles are man made. Then laver is incredulous that one object real and another made up can have a similar ratio in them. So laver computes a ratio for the GP that is a rather odd ratio compute to say the least. Then laver is incredulous that someone can make something up that has a ratio, computed from unrelated dimensions, that is about the same.

Furlong tells us explicitly he made it up. That is what virtual means. It means not real, made up, a fantasy. The circles are made up. They are made to fit the notion of matching up to something that has no relationship.

There really isn't anything to this thread other than an argument based on an appeal to incredulity.





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