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Crop Circles just one sign of Revelation


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#451    laver

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 11:48 AM

**************** A NOTE ON THIS TOPIC******************

This topic has been discussed on UM for 5 months and many opinions have been expressed.
It is clear that some people believe that all crop circles/designs are manmade and others are not satisfied with this explanation.
The research and the debate goes on but what has this to do with a possible 'End of Time' or 'Revelation' some time about now ?

The link is of course speculative but what is not speculative is the landscape geometry which is the basis of this topic.
From a particular location, at the heart of crop circle activity in Wiltshire southern Britain, bearing lines go out in all directions but we are interested here in the ones that go to the Holy Land and what they reveal.
They reveal alignments of very ancient clearly sacred sites in the Holy Land and one of these alignments going from Wiltshire by great circle gives clear geometric links to the churches named at the start of the Book of Revelations. The text of this book seems to confirm the geometry.

Revelation, meaning to reveal that which is hidden, was obviously the intention of the book in giving clues and much of it is very obscure but what is not obscure are the first 3 chapters which are dedicted to the 7 named churches with messages to each of them. We are told in chapter 1 that there is a 'secret meaning' about these church locations linked to 'angels', meaning 'messengers', or possibly 'angles' as it is the angles of these locations, angles from the focal point in Wiltshire, which are so important.
This is all factual information and covered in previous posts so that anyone who wants to can check it out.

If the 'secret meaning' is this geometric layout of locations, which must be the most likely scenario, then at some time it was intended that it would be discovered and revealed so this would be a time of Revelation.

Crop circles might be another sign as they are drawing our attention to an area which is the focal point of the ancient landscape geometry but this is just a hypothesis whereas the geometry is a fact.


#452    Swede

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 10:48 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 05 June 2013 - 04:03 AM, said:

I'm constantly amazed that many Fringe books can be purchased used for $1 or $2, while the even the childrens books are $7. I guess if you are selling something very few people want you take what you can get. Supply and Demand, right?. If there is no demand, your supply is not going to make much.

:tsu:

Chuckle! Quite true. It may be a rather heartening sign that the "long term" value of fringe drivel has a well deserved limited lifespan.

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#453    Swede

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 12:08 AM

View Postlaver, on 06 June 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

It seems that 'Swede', like some others, has dropped out of the discussion when the going became a bit hot i.e. presented with the facts about the ancient landscape geometry and the biblical connections which are quite clear. But the links are quite apparent to anyone who takes the trouble to look, they are not a 'deception' or in any way 'fanciful' so do not be put off ; seek the truth we are told and what better way to find it than through a little geometry and maths.

Some Crop Circles may or may not be signs that are worth taking note of, one can speculate about that, but the landscape geometry with its links to the churches of Revelation is a fact and focuses our attention on Wiltshire in southern Britain the centre of crop circle activity.

"Bert": It would appear that, as implied by other worthy contributors, your close reading skills are rather wanting. My most recent contribution expressly contained the following:

Will be personally quite engaged in professional obligations during the next few weeks. Will, however, attempt to follow the topic (Swede #435).

This comment was not presented in an idle manner. It does, however, reflect the realities of one of a number of contributors to these pages who are actively involved in credible research and the inherent demands of such.

While one "reference" has already been submitted, other readers may find the below comparative "references" to be of interest.

http://www.kch42.dia.../keys_intro.htm

http://www.cropcircl.../200601lsg.html

To address some of your more recent contributions:

1) As has been previously demonstrated, your "Mayan connection"/ Joshua ben Joseph-Egypt/ Ley lines positions are wholly unsubstantiated and can no longer be considered viable aspects of your fantasy.

2) Re: The following points of your "presentation":
  • Silbury Hill - Dated to 2400-2000 BC. Also associated with available resource procurement factors:
http://www.pastscape...x?hob_id=220743

http://www.archaeolo...a70/feat2.shtml
  • Long Barrows - Not yet dated.
  • West Kennett - Dated to circa 3500 BC.
  • "Stone Avenue/Sanctuary" - Dated to circa 2200 BC.
3) As to the "geometric" aspects, the following factors should be seriously considered:
  • The very term "landscape geometry", as applied in your case, is the product of New Age fringe "literature". While this term has been utilized in reference to military maneuvers, it is not a term generally utilized in credible archaeological research.
  • Neither you nor Furlong would appear to have made the effort to establish comparative examples, nor have either of you clearly presented your methodology. For example, with an arbitrary/adjustable radius from a given center-point, it is easily within the realm of speculation that any number of religious facilities could be found within radius X of the local pub/Tower of London/Wal-Mart. Your tolerances for precision are also not noted/documented.
4) Your repeated attempts to associate any number of extraneous elements with the Book of Revelations becomes rather tragically amusing. For example, by your own admission, you have absolutely no credible documentation that would even remotely associate Joshua ben Joseph with the location of future Christian structures or the prophetical aspects of Revelations.

As can be readily observed in the latter page or two of this topic, you would appear to be essentially speaking to yourself in an attempt to justify your fantasy. This is certainly your privilege.

However, do not expect others to waste their time responding to unsubstantiated and irrelevant commentary.

Edit: Punctuation.

Edited by Swede, 09 June 2013 - 12:10 AM.


#454    laver

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 01:44 PM

Reply to Swede, Psychic Spy, post of Today 1:08 AM

With reference to your post and comments on what you rather unkindly call my 'fantasy' I would make the following comments -

A 'fantasy' is according to my dictionary - imagination unrestricted by reality ; creation of the imagination. That is the exact opposite of my proposals but presumably used by you to try and influence other UM users, who might be interested in the topic, into dismissing the ideas.

Crop circles are not a 'fantasy' they are a reality and have been for many years, with in some cases apparently very obscure origins and features. You may wish to be a believer that they are all manmade, that is your choice, but many people keep a more open mind on the matter and wonder, if some are not manmade, why we have been seeing them over recent years. It is quite valid to thus put forward some ideas as to why they might appear and may be a sign of something that we should take note.

When the focal point of crop circle activity is the same location as the focal point of obviously very ancient landscape geometry and some of the designs seem to have mathematic and geometric messages this is worthy of note.
The vast majority of crop designs occur in Wiltshire, southern Britain, so it is quite reasonable to suggest that this may be relevant and that this could be linked to the landscape geometry.

The focal point of David Furlong's proposals of an ancient twin circle design set out on the Marlborough Downs turned out to be a specific location, Temple Farm near Marlborough, and whereas you might engage in a process of nit-picking about aspects of this, which is largely irrelevant because we do not know the true age of sites which may well have been considered important or 'sacred' from long before any evidence which now remains, I took the view that IF this extensive design did indeed have very ancient origins and links to the Great Pyramid there must be reason it was set out in the first place.
I know that this probably a strange idea to you but if you try to think 'outside the box' or the blinkers of mainstream opinion and 'established' history and prehistory one can just say 'WHAT IF'.
What if David Furlong is right and there is this ancient design pointing to Temple Farm ? There must be a very good reason, must there not ?

Investigations of the Temple Farm geographical location particularly using the Saint Michael alignment that goes through the site did reveal some amazing long distance alignments and this goes back to work of John Michell but also the surveying work of David Wood and investigations of Henry Lincoln at the most important mystery site in France... Rennes le Chateau. There were geometric links between these sites and the Great Pyramid which seemed to confirm that Temple Farm was a indeed an ancient significant location. Details are beyond the scope of this post.
But this topic on UM is about the alignments that go to the Holy Land which was investigated because of its huge impact on human affairs from very early times through to the present day.
Was the Holy Land linked to this geometric design from very ancient times ?

Looking at very early sites in the Holy Land showed that many conformed to bearing lines from Temple Farm which seemed to be way beyond the possibility of coincidence. But it was the discovery that one of these alignments highlighted the locations of the churches chosen for the start of the Book of Revelations which was a most surprising developement.
The Book of Revelations has very obscure origins but these clearly indicate Jesus as a source and with other references in the bible indicate that Jesus and probably Mary Magdalene were aware of this ancient geometry and left clues in order that it could be revealed at some time in the future. Since the landscape geometry is now known it is a reasonable suggestion that this could be a time of Revelation.

There is no deception in this and anyone who wishes to check it out is able to do so from the information in previous posts.

It is NOT a fantasy but a fact and your comments appear to be no more than a smoke screen of quasi-academic waffle to try to cover up what you don't want to accept.

Edited by laver, 09 June 2013 - 01:46 PM.


#455    laver

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 01:34 PM

View PostAquilaChrysaetos, on 02 January 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

I wish the book of Revelation was never written or canonized. It makes people worry and waste their time deciefering nonsensual dribble as opposed to attempting to do as Christ dictates and make more disciples. Christ gave us all the info we need for the end of mankind, and said it all straight forward as opposed to being "in sympolism and codes." We should stop worrying about deciefering and actually start working on Christ's great commision instead.

The bible is an enigma and the recorded sayings of Jesus are full of riddles and parables leaving the listener or reader to decide how they should be interpreted. To say it is 'straight forward' is a joke. We are clearly intended to seek the truth and not accept one particular interpretation of passages which may be offered to suit the agenda of a particular individual or group. The book of the Revelations of John is part of the bible and stated to be messages from Jesus about what will happen in the future which once again have to be interpreted in the search for a true meaning and we are told in the book that there is a secret meaning to be found.

To wish that a part of the bible had not been 'written or canonized' and that it is 'nonsensual dribble' (whatever that might mean) because it does not fit with your own beliefs is a very arrogant and bigoted statement.


#456    Mangoze

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 10:00 PM

View Postlaver, on 30 May 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:



If you wish to be a 'believer' that all crop circles are man made  ... fine, that is your choice, but there will be many who probably do not agree for many reasons.
Can't You Just Provide The Link?

PS Sorry For  Caps Android/Swype Behaving Strange...


#457    Swede

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 01:02 AM

View Postlaver, on 09 June 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Reply to Swede, Psychic Spy, post of Today 1:08 AM

A 'fantasy' is according to my dictionary - imagination unrestricted by reality ; creation of the imagination.


QED. At what point would you choose to provide credible research that would support your fantasy? Citing the likes of Michell, Wood, and H. Lincoln does little to support the validity of your argument. For those unfamiliar with some of Laver's "sources":

http://www.guardian....ichell-obituary

http://www.henrylinc...uk/geometry.php

Will avoid a reference to the site of David Wood due to the virus-laden nature of such.

As to your "out-of-the-box" comment: This is a perpetual cry of the fringe. Anyone even remotely familiar with current scientific research (in numerous fields) would be aware of the continuing challenges to past paradigms and the notable advancements that have been the result of said challenges. However, the alterations to past paradigms are the product of supportable research. This is a critical element that your fantasy sorely lacks. As is yet again quite evident, you would appear to be playing an endless "what if" game. While you may find this approach to be personally gratifying, it would be an act of personal self-deception to believe that such unevidenced motions will have any impact on current historical/archaeological understandings.

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#458    Mangoze

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:10 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 01 June 2013 - 11:57 PM, said:

So, assuming laver is right and there is a connection between crop circles and churches and the Book of Revelations, what can we learn from the Crop Circles? Are they going to continue to get more complex, more common or larger? Will they vanish or slow down, or simplify? Could we even guess what they are supposed to mean?

And the title says "Just one sign". What might be the other signs?

We can learn that the answers are on the internet...
http://firefoxcropci...m&g2_itemId=163


#459    laver

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:17 AM

View PostSwede, on 14 June 2013 - 01:02 AM, said:

QED. At what point would you choose to provide credible research that would support your fantasy? Citing the likes of Michell, Wood, and H. Lincoln does little to support the validity of your argument. For those unfamiliar with some of Laver's "sources":

http://www.guardian....ichell-obituary

http://www.henrylinc...uk/geometry.php

Will avoid a reference to the site of David Wood due to the virus-laden nature of such.

As to your "out-of-the-box" comment: This is a perpetual cry of the fringe. Anyone even remotely familiar with current scientific research (in numerous fields) would be aware of the continuing challenges to past paradigms and the notable advancements that have been the result of said challenges. However, the alterations to past paradigms are the product of supportable research. This is a critical element that your fantasy sorely lacks. As is yet again quite evident, you would appear to be playing an endless "what if" game. While you may find this approach to be personally gratifying, it would be an act of personal self-deception to believe that such unevidenced motions will have any impact on current historical/archaeological understandings.

.

Your statement that my proposals are a 'fantasy' - ' imagination unrestricted by reality' - is unsupportable.

The location of a possible geometric focal point identified by David Furlong and its coordinates have been given

The bearing lines from this location to 5 churches noted at the start of 'The Book of Revelations' have been given

How these church locations relate to a 110 degree bearing line from the focal point, Temple Farm, has been shown

How this bearing line then goes the Sea of Galilee at Mount Arbel / Magdala has been demonstrated

How the Book of Revelations references a 'secret meaning' in the church locations and the reference to Laodicea has been shown

How the other 2 Revelation churches relate to a seperate alignment from the Great Pyramid has been explained

How other bearing lines from Temple Farm form alignments of ancient sites in the Holy Land has been explained

None of this is imaginary but quite factual information which can be checked by anyone interested

It is a very strange discovery and we do not know how this 'landscape geometry' was set out thousands of years ago or why

We also do not know how it came to be coded into the Book of Revelations

It is a reasonable assumption that when this 'landscape geometry' is identified and revealed it may be a time of Revelation... QED

So is this a sign that this is a time of Revelation.......?


#460    laver

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:35 AM

View PostMangoze, on 14 June 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

We can learn that the answers are on the internet...
http://firefoxcropci...m&g2_itemId=163

Please see the previous post to Swede

The Crop Circle connection is a suggestion because to many people there are aspects of the appearance of some of these designs which defy rational explanation and it is thus sensible to consider why they occur and if they are some sort of sign that we should take note of.


#461    Swede

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 09:49 PM

View Postlaver, on 14 June 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

Your statement that my proposals are a 'fantasy' - ' imagination unrestricted by reality' - is unsupportable.

The location of a possible geometric focal point identified by David Furlong and its coordinates have been given

The bearing lines from this location to 5 churches noted at the start of 'The Book of Revelations' have been given

How these church locations relate to a 110 degree bearing line from the focal point, Temple Farm, has been shown

How this bearing line then goes the Sea of Galilee at Mount Arbel / Magdala has been demonstrated

How the Book of Revelations references a 'secret meaning' in the church locations and the reference to Laodicea has been shown

How the other 2 Revelation churches relate to a seperate alignment from the Great Pyramid has been explained

How other bearing lines from Temple Farm form alignments of ancient sites in the Holy Land has been explained

None of this is imaginary but quite factual information which can be checked by anyone interested

It is a very strange discovery and we do not know how this 'landscape geometry' was set out thousands of years ago or why

We also do not know how it came to be coded into the Book of Revelations

It is a reasonable assumption that when this 'landscape geometry' is identified and revealed it may be a time of Revelation... QED

So is this a sign that this is a time of Revelation.......?

To review:

...Book of Revelations is providing clues to an ancient system of landscape geometry which must have been set out thousands of years before the time of Jesus, but of which Jesus must have been aware, if he was the origin source for this book (Laver #437) (Emphasis added).

The above is a statement wholly unsupported by corroborative data. It is, however, an induced component of your circular-reasoning construct.

...so it is valid to speculate that there might be a connection and some circles could be signs linked to the geometry which takes us to the Churches of Revelation, the Holy Land and Magdala on the Sea of Galilee...(Laver #437) (Emphasis added).

Speculation does not equate to fact.

...and if Jesus was the source of the Book of Revelations...(Laver #437) (Emphasis added).

Speculation does not equate to fact.

It is a pure speculation that the crop circles may also be a sign of Revelation (Laver #441) (Emphasis added).

Quite true.

...but there were probably no actual structures at the ancient sites, just stone markers maybe, so no real evidence of the ancient sanctity of these sites on the ground...(Laver #442) (Emphasis added).

Also likely. Therefore, how does one reach the conclusions that you and your ilk have expressed?

There is nothing speculative about the ancient landscape geometry it is a fact (Laver #446).

No, "landscape geometry"is not a fact. As previously explained, this term is a New Age construct that has not withstood the rigors of qualified investigation. One must bear in mind that western Europe has experienced varying H.s.s. population levels for a rather extended period of time. This has resulted in a surprisingly dense array of constructions whose locations can be played with in a myriad of manners.

You (and Furlong) have previously been challenged to generate credible comparative examples that would lend statistical support to your position. To date, you would not appear to have applied yourself to this pursuit.

Allow me to provide a rough and quickly derived example:
  • A straight line from the Eiffel Tower to the Communaute des Souers du Saint Sacrement (.72 mi) has a bearing of ~ 296.3 o .
  • Approximately 180o S of Saint Sacrement is Paraisse Notre Dame de Grace de Passy.
  • Connecting the points of Eiffel, Saint Sacrement, Grace de Passy results in a nearly perfect right triangle with an included acute angle of 26o+.
  • Extending the 296.3o bearing northwestward finds this line intersecting with Louviers.
  • Further extension of this bearing finds this line passing near Ashwater (yes, Ashwater!) and intersecting the Carboniferous adamellite formations (circa 309 mya) of Dartmoor.
What can we conclude from the above? Well, it is all quite obvious:
  • The Parisians were apparently quite concerned about aligning significant structures with areas of Britain that contain Neolithic and Bronze Age archaeological sites.
  • The business of the rather well-known inn/pub in Ashwater was initiated in order to capitalize on this fantastic ancient alignment.
  • The early reptiles of the Carboniferous apparently left behind difficult-to-distinguish markers that later allowed H.s.s. to generate structural alignments based upon these markers.
  • But wait, there is more: The included acute angle of the "Eiffel Triangle", when converted to feet, is almost exactly the width of the Lesser Subterranean Chamber of the pyramid of Khufu!
Further details will be available in my forthcoming blockbuster book. Be sure to reserve your copy now.

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#462    conspiracy buff

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:57 PM

It is an interesting topic to say the least.  Serious researchers have theorized that aliens are demonic and that there is a deception going on with reguards to who they are, why they are here, and crop circles would be one element of that puzzle.  Does it have anything to do with biblical end times?  I don't think I'd go that far just yet.  The bible also clearly states that no one but God knows the end and its time of arrival.  Trying to link the crop circle phenomena with bible end times is too much mixing of genres.  If aliens are demonic, then maybe these crop circles are proof of more activity in that area but not necessarily linked to end time prophecy.

There is a grain of truth in every conspiracy known to man, you just have to be intelligent enough to find it.

#463    laver

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 06:18 PM

In reply to the previous post by Swede - yesterday 10.49

Revelations 1 - This is the Revelation given by God to Jesus Christ. It was given to him so that he might show his servants what must shortly happen......

verses 3-4 - A message from Christ to the churches (The New English Bible)

It is a reasonable speculation that Jesus knew the meaning in the messages to the 7 named churches and in verse 20 we are told

'Here is the secret meaning.....................' which relates to stars, lamps of gold and angels (or messengers)

It is quite reasonable to assume that there was something special and secret about the 7 locations selected for the start of Revelations and to find that the last 5 locations correlate to a particular bearing line is very strange as this bearing line then goes to the Holy Land at a significant location. The last named church Laodicea is exactly on the bearing line and in the text the message to this church says
'I know all your ways; you are neither hot nor cold.......' Chapter 3 15-16

There have been many suggested alignments of sites in the past but this one has a particular significance because of the links to the Book of Revelations. You might ridicule the idea and simply dismiss it as a coincidence but the fact remains that ancient sites in the Holy Land and Eastern Mediterranean area do align to bearing lines from one particular location in Wiltshire, southern Britain, and that location just happens to be the site of Temple Farm identified by David Furlong and discussed in his book The Keys to the Temple.
You may make of it what you will but the bearings are out there on the landscape and the comments in the Book of Revelations would appear to confirm it.

Other UM users may feel that this ancient Landscape Geometry could be important in our understanding of this last book of the bible and that it is worth considering if this is a sign that we may be at a time of Revelation.


#464    laver

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 02:35 AM

View Postconspiracy buff, on 17 June 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

It is an interesting topic to say the least.  Serious researchers have theorized that aliens are demonic and that there is a deception going on with reguards to who they are, why they are here, and crop circles would be one element of that puzzle.  Does it have anything to do with biblical end times?  I don't think I'd go that far just yet.  The bible also clearly states that no one but God knows the end and its time of arrival.  Trying to link the crop circle phenomena with bible end times is too much mixing of genres.  If aliens are demonic, then maybe these crop circles are proof of more activity in that area but not necessarily linked to end time prophecy.

The reason that 'bible end times' or a 'time of Revelation' could be relevant to the present day is not that crop circle activity, with some of the designs, is a definite sign of this but that it is worth considering that it might be.

The geometric alignments of ancient sacred sites in the Holy Land, with one of these alignments highlighting churches chosen for messages at the start of the Book of Revelations, is another possible sign because this geometric connection has apparently only just been discovered.

As you say the timing of an 'End of Time' or 'Revelation' is not known but it is reasonable to suggest that when the 'secret meaning'  written into the Book of Revelations and related to the 7 named churches is understood and revealed this might be a time of Revelation.

(see previous posts for details of how the churches of Revelation relate to an alignment to the Holy Land )


#465    Swede

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:19 AM

View Postconspiracy buff, on 17 June 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

It is an interesting topic to say the least.  Serious researchers have theorized that aliens are demonic and that there is a deception going on with reguards to who they are, why they are here, and crop circles would be one element of that puzzle.  Does it have anything to do with biblical end times?  I don't think I'd go that far just yet.  The bible also clearly states that no one but God knows the end and its time of arrival.  Trying to link the crop circle phenomena with bible end times is too much mixing of genres.  If aliens are demonic, then maybe these crop circles are proof of more activity in that area but not necessarily linked to end time prophecy.

Kindly clarify the above with citations by/from credible researchers.

Edit: Addition

Edited by Swede, 19 June 2013 - 12:19 AM.





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