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Crop Circles just one sign of Revelation


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#811    Otto von Pickelhaube

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 02:58 PM

View Postshrooma, on 25 August 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

.
it is Sir, yes.
Glastonbury to be more precise.
but I think that's all just a mythtake.....
;-)
that's Somerset.
And not just the grail (which is in the crystal castle under the Tor), but also, of course, where Kind Arthur hangs out awaiting the call for when his country needs him again.
Surely that must be about now?*

* Some say Cadbury castle, of course

If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

- Philip K. Dick.


#812    laver

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 04:59 PM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 25 August 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

that's Somerset.
And not just the grail (which is in the crystal castle under the Tor), but also, of course, where Kind Arthur hangs out awaiting the call for when his country needs him again.
Surely that must be about now?*

* Some say Cadbury castle, of course

Yes wrong county but Glastonbury is an interesting location and much written about by the late author John Michell.

He saw it as a key site on a long distance alignment highlighting very ancient sites and later churches dedicated to Saint Michael which he proposed runs through southern Britain and Wiltshire; The Saint Michael's Alignment or Ley.
This rather wobbly alignment was noted by David Furlong to run in the same direction as the centers of the twin circles he found in Wiltshire and his estimate of the position of the alignment, where it goes through his landscape design, was one factor in highlighting the location known as Temple Farm.
The other factor was of course the geometric design of the Great Pyramid when superimposed on his proposed ancient landscape layout.

So the ancient sacred geometry of Britain and the Great Pyramid leads us to Temple Farm, as suggested in David Furlong's book, which leads us to the Holy Land via most of the 'churches of Asia' of the Book of Revelations  - where we are met by Mary of Magdala -
The Goddess of these Sacred Isles  ? The Isles of Britannia  ?
and the linking of Saint Michael and Saint Katherine so often seen together depicted in our churches ?

Just an idea, but what about Kind King Arthur  ?

Perhaps he had better get a move on... or he will never win the next General Election to sort out these Sacred Isles ......

Edited by laver, 25 August 2013 - 05:03 PM.


#813    Swede

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:37 PM

View Postlaver, on 19 August 2013 - 12:40 AM, said:

1. Suggest you read David Furlong's book 'The Keys to the Temple' or his website which sets out what he found and his interesting proposals

2. Yes crop circles are a fact and some might not be man made so the 'coincidence' that the major centre of this activity has been Wiltshire in southern Britain and this is also the location of the focal point of proposed ancient landscape geometry with links to the Book of Revelations and the Holy Land makes this connection worth mentioning.

3. The bearing lines exists and the ancient sites exist. The locations and comments in the Book of Revelations exist. People have the right to be told, so that they can make up their own minds on the factual information now available.

4. You say - 'not a single qualified theologian has, in the least, suggested your particular "association" '. That is because they were not aware of the ancient landscape geometry with its bearings to ancient sites in the Holy Land and eastern Mediterranean and the gospels / Book of Revelations all of which has only just been discovered. But in future they may like to consider it.

This thread is about factual information that other users of UM should be able to consider, but they will have to be wary of posts and posters that seek to deride the information and try to prevent them from realisically asking..... is this a time of Revelation ?

Those contributors who have chosen to suffer through your repetitious attempts at defending your fantasy are quite familiar with your primary (and specious) "points". While these "points" have, for the most part, been repeatedly addressed via the presentation of qualified research/data, you would appear to have difficulty in digesting and processing such information. Sad, really.

And it would likely be of interest to qualified theologians to learn how tragically misinformed these many astute individuals are.

In this light, let us look more closely at one of the locations mentioned in Revelations. One that you have repeatedly referred to in regards to your fantasy. Ephesus.

First, general early background:
  • The earliest documentation for the presence of H.s.s. in the region (Anatolia) can be traced to ~ 40,000 BP.
  • Amongst the earliest recorded cultures in Anatolia were the non-Indo-European speaking Hattias and Hurrians.
  • These groups were followed by the Indo-European speaking Hittites. Following the Hittites in Anatolia were the Assyrians, Phrygians, Cimmerians, Greeks, Romans, etc.
Ephesus area proper:
  • The earliest documented human habitation near the location of the future ancient city of Ephesus can be found at two sites that date to ~ 7,000 BP (Kraft et al 2011:28). The establishment of these Neolithic habitation sites was based upon the confluence of Cayster River (modern Kucuk Menderes River) with the Gulf of Ephesus (formed by the Holocene basin level rise intruding into the river valley). The selection of such locations as areas of habitation is well documented on a global level and was due to the obvious resource procurement advantages of a site that provides both fresh water and access to both maritime and freshwater resources, in addition to travel networks. No "cosmic significance" involved.
  • The "ancient" city of Ephesus was founded by the Greeks and was a thriving sea-port. Due to continued sedimentation of the Cayster River delta floodplain, exacerbated by human attempts to minimize such, "ancient" Ephesus now lies some 8 km from the current coastline (Kraft et al 2011).
  • The earliest documented religious structure associated with Greek Ephesus is the temple of Artemis (~ 800 BCE).
Early churches: You would appear to be under the impression that early Christian "churches" refer to a physical structure. Believe that other worthy contributors may have touched upon this issue. To elaborate:
  • During the first century AD (and later), the utilization of the term "church" applied to a group of, shall we say, like-minded individuals. Meetings were held out of doors or in private homes with no fixed venue. Rather the "upper room".
  • At a somewhat later period, certain houses became more consistent places of worship. The earliest documentation of one of these "house churches" is located in Dura Europa (Syria). This structure is dated to 233-256 AD and retains related iconography.
  • The earliest documentation of a dedicated Christian worship structure is Megiddo (Israel), ~ 300 AD+.
To briefly summarize:
  • The general region of Ephesus has a long history of human presence that included numerous and diverse cultural elements.
  • There would appear to be no indication of Neolithic spiritual significance attributable to the Ephesus area proper.
  • That the Greeks built temples in thriving maritime cities is hardly of special note in regards to your fantasy. There are numerous and varied examples.
  • At the presumed time of the writting of Revelations, there would have been no physical Christian "church" structure in Ephesus.
  • As indicated by elements of the above, any attempt to associate G1 or Wiltshire with Ephesus through the means of a self-derived (and wholly unsubstantiated) "landscape geometry" is, at best, notably misguided, and, at its worst, simply delusional.
It should also be noted that as per your poorly veiled comments under other headings, you would appear to be implying some sort of "alien intervention". Too coy by half.

Edit: Typo.

Edited by Swede, 25 August 2013 - 10:42 PM.


#814    laver

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 12:37 AM

View PostSwede, on 25 August 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

Those contributors who have chosen to suffer through your repetitious attempts at defending your fantasy are quite familiar with your primary (and specious) "points". While these "points" have, for the most part, been repeatedly addressed via the presentation of qualified research/data, you would appear to have difficulty in digesting and processing such information. Sad, really.

And it would likely be of interest to qualified theologians to learn how tragically misinformed these many astute individuals are.

In this light, let us look more closely at one of the locations mentioned in Revelations. One that you have repeatedly referred to in regards to your fantasy. Ephesus.

First, general early background:
  • The earliest documentation for the presence of H.s.s. in the region (Anatolia) can be traced to ~ 40,000 BP.
  • Amongst the earliest recorded cultures in Anatolia were the non-Indo-European speaking Hattias and Hurrians.
  • These groups were followed by the Indo-European speaking Hittites. Following the Hittites in Anatolia were the Assyrians, Phrygians, Cimmerians, Greeks, Romans, etc.
Ephesus area proper:
  • The earliest documented human habitation near the location of the future ancient city of Ephesus can be found at two sites that date to ~ 7,000 BP (Kraft et al 2011:28). The establishment of these Neolithic habitation sites was based upon the confluence of Cayster River (modern Kucuk Menderes River) with the Gulf of Ephesus (formed by the Holocene basin level rise intruding into the river valley). The selection of such locations as areas of habitation is well documented on a global level and was due to the obvious resource procurement advantages of a site that provides both fresh water and access to both maritime and freshwater resources, in addition to travel networks. No "cosmic significance" involved.
  • The "ancient" city of Ephesus was founded by the Greeks and was a thriving sea-port. Due to continued sedimentation of the Cayster River delta floodplain, exacerbated by human attempts to minimize such, "ancient" Ephesus now lies some 8 km from the current coastline (Kraft et al 2011).
  • The earliest documented religious structure associated with Greek Ephesus is the temple of Artemis (~ 800 BCE).
Early churches: You would appear to be under the impression that early Christian "churches" refer to a physical structure. Believe that other worthy contributors may have touched upon this issue. To elaborate:
  • During the first century AD (and later), the utilization of the term "church" applied to a group of, shall we say, like-minded individuals. Meetings were held out of doors or in private homes with no fixed venue. Rather the "upper room".
  • At a somewhat later period, certain houses became more consistent places of worship. The earliest documentation of one of these "house churches" is located in Dura Europa (Syria). This structure is dated to 233-256 AD and retains related iconography.
  • The earliest documentation of a dedicated Christian worship structure is Megiddo (Israel), ~ 300 AD+.
To briefly summarize:
  • The general region of Ephesus has a long history of human presence that included numerous and diverse cultural elements.
  • There would appear to be no indication of Neolithic spiritual significance attributable to the Ephesus area proper.
  • That the Greeks built temples in thriving maritime cities is hardly of special note in regards to your fantasy. There are numerous and varied examples.
  • At the presumed time of the writting of Revelations, there would have been no physical Christian "church" structure in Ephesus.
  • As indicated by elements of the above, any attempt to associate G1 or Wiltshire with Ephesus through the means of a self-derived (and wholly unsubstantiated) "landscape geometry" is, at best, notably misguided, and, at its worst, simply delusional.
It should also be noted that as per your poorly veiled comments under other headings, you would appear to be implying some sort of "alien intervention". Too coy by half.

Edit: Typo.

It would seem that you are not seeing the wood for the trees - maybe you do not want to ?

I will post a few facts, yes facts, shortly, to summarise the topic for other UM users. You may not like the facts but please do try not to be so abusive.


#815    shrooma

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:26 AM

Swede, you're on to a wrong'n here dude.
did you notice how mr furlon..., I mean laver, dodged all your points? and then said he was gonna post some ''facts'', even after you told him he was posting the same things over & over again?
he doesn't read any of the posts on here.
that's not the point of his threads.
you contradict his statements- he spams the board with the same unconvincing ''facts'' that he's been doing for over 50 pages.
trust me, you won't get any kind of sense out of him.
but good luck anyway man.....

"Get off your knees, the party's over."
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-How do you sleep-
The Stone Roses.

#816    shrooma

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:38 AM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 25 August 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

And not just the grail (which is in the crystal castle under the Tor)
.
that'll be an old, confused folk memory of the Tor's original name- Ynis Witrin- 'the glass isle'
which contains a doorway to the underworld, the realm of the tuatha de danann.....

"Get off your knees, the party's over."
.
-How do you sleep-
The Stone Roses.

#817    laver

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:04 PM

Reference posts 814 and 815

When is a fact not a fact

Many people would say - when it cannot be verified

As stated before the geometric information given on this topic can be verified, quite easily, by anyone who doubts its veracity.


#818    Quaentum

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:11 PM

View Postlaver, on 24 August 2013 - 03:06 AM, said:

A note on the Greenwich Meridian

There are 2 alignments that highlight the 7 churches of the Book of Revelations as detailed in previous posts.
1. The 110 degree bearing from Temple Farm to the Holy Land at Mount Arbel and Magdala on the Sea of Galilee which highlights 5 Revelation sites
2. A bearing from the Great Pyramid in Egypt to Ephesus (Selcuk temple site) of 339.61 degrees which passes Smyrna and goes north close to Ancient Troy.

These bearing lines cross each other at a particular location which was found to be

39 degrees, 39 minutes, 39 seconds, north of the equator
26 degrees, 26 minutes, 26 seconds, east of the Greenwich Meridian (within .01 of a bearing degree)

As stated when this location was originally mentioned in a post on UM it is a very strange 'coincidence' of numbers.
The latitude north of the equator could have very ancient origins but as was pointed out in that post how could the Longitude numbers also be repetitive since the position of the Prime Meridian at Greenwich was apparently a recent choice ?

There would seem to be only two possible answers

1. The repetitive numbers in the Longitude are a pure fluke, a strange coincidence and have no significance
2. By some means the location of the Greenwich Meridian, 0 degrees east or west, was not a pure fluke but influenced by some very ancient knowledge.

The site of Greenwich had been used for various buildings for probably about a thousand years and could have had some marker on the site from ancient times but there is no known evidence of this.

#1 is the answer considering that 0 degrees longitude was chosen hundreds and thousands of years after the ancient sites were built and the builders would not have known about something that didn't exist.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#819    Quaentum

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:15 PM

View Postlaver, on 24 August 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Crop circles this month to August 24th as recorded on Crop Circle Connector

Holland - 2 appearances

Britain - County of Worcestershire - 1 appearance

Britain - County of Wiltshire - 11 appearances

NB  Over many years Wiltshire has been the clear center of this activity and still is
  
   If a percentage of appearances are not man made.......why is Wiltshire a possible 'target' area  ?

There has yet to be any evidence that crop circles are other then man made.  Many circles, including the hackpen hill circle, show clear signs they were made by humans but some ignore the evidence either claiming they were not made by humans or there is the possibility they weren't made by humans.  Such willful ignorance does nothing to support the various views of non-human crop circle making but rather goes to show how desperate some are to make the crop circles look more mysterious than they are.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#820    Quaentum

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:21 PM

View Postlaver, on 26 August 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

Reference posts 814 and 815

When is a fact not a fact

Many people would say - when it cannot be verified

As stated before the geometric information given on this topic can be verified, quite easily, by anyone who doubts its veracity.

I have noted that for you a fact is not a fact when you don't want it to be.  Many have posted facts here which you either dismiss or ignore so I guess that makes them non-facts in your eyes right?

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#821    laver

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 06:17 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 26 August 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

#1 is the answer considering that 0 degrees longitude was chosen hundreds and thousands of years after the ancient sites were built and the builders would not have known about something that didn't exist.

Of course No 1 has to be the right answer....... or does it ?

2 seperate alignments highlighting the 7 churches of the Book of Revelations and other ancient sites cross at

39 degrees, 39 minutes, 39 seconds, north of the equator
26 degrees, 26 minutes, 26 seconds, east of the Greenwich Meridian (within .01 of a bearing degree)

The chances of that being just a 'coincidence' must be very very high.
These 2 alignments were arrived at based on bearings from Temple Farm in Wiltshire, southern Britain, which was found by David Furlong by using the geometry of the Great Pyramid, and a bearing from the Great Pyramid itself to Ephesus (Temple of Artemis, Sulcuk), the first named church of the Book of Revelations.

These are not just random bearing lines engineered to give an interesting position for the sake of a UM thread.
How the repetitive numbers occur in the Longitude is a real mystery and could be a fluke, but might not be; the repetitive numbers in the Latitude could have been set out thousands of years ago when the ancient sites were chosen.

It is also interesting that this crossover point is very close to the now known site of Ancient Troy which might possibly be relevant.

Ignore all this if you wish - but it is a fact, the alignments are a fact, with the Revelation sites they highlight, and the crossover point is a fact.

With this landscape geometry now coming to light it is reasonable to ask if this may be a time of Revelation  ?

Edited by laver, 26 August 2013 - 06:18 PM.


#822    Quaentum

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 08:39 PM

View Postlaver, on 26 August 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

Of course No 1 has to be the right answer....... or does it ?

2 seperate alignments highlighting the 7 churches of the Book of Revelations and other ancient sites cross at

39 degrees, 39 minutes, 39 seconds, north of the equator
26 degrees, 26 minutes, 26 seconds, east of the Greenwich Meridian (within .01 of a bearing degree)

The chances of that being just a 'coincidence' must be very very high.
These 2 alignments were arrived at based on bearings from Temple Farm in Wiltshire, southern Britain, which was found by David Furlong by using the geometry of the Great Pyramid, and a bearing from the Great Pyramid itself to Ephesus (Temple of Artemis, Sulcuk), the first named church of the Book of Revelations.

These are not just random bearing lines engineered to give an interesting position for the sake of a UM thread.
How the repetitive numbers occur in the Longitude is a real mystery and could be a fluke, but might not be; the repetitive numbers in the Latitude could have been set out thousands of years ago when the ancient sites were chosen.

It is also interesting that this crossover point is very close to the now known site of Ancient Troy which might possibly be relevant.

Ignore all this if you wish - but it is a fact, the alignments are a fact, with the Revelation sites they highlight, and the crossover point is a fact.

With this landscape geometry now coming to light it is reasonable to ask if this may be a time of Revelation  ?

The longitudinal numbers are just coincidence seeing that at the time they chose Greenwich for the prime meridian, Paris was also in the running.

Prior to Ptolemy (90 CE - 168 CE) the prime meridian was not at a fixed location.

Quote

But it was Ptolemy (c. AD 90 – c. AD 168) who first used a consistent meridian for a world map in his Geographia. Ptolemy used as his basis the "Fortunate Isles", a group of islands in the Atlantic which are usually associated with the Canary Islands (13° to 18°W), although his maps correspond more closely to the Cape Verde islands (22° to 25° W).

http://en.wikipedia..../Prime_meridian

To be accurate, you would want to use the prime meridian most likely used when Revelation was written, not the one in use today.  In using the correct prime meridian you may find the repetitive longitudinal numbers aren't there.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#823    laver

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 11:42 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 26 August 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

The longitudinal numbers are just coincidence seeing that at the time they chose Greenwich for the prime meridian, Paris was also in the running.

Prior to Ptolemy (90 CE - 168 CE) the prime meridian was not at a fixed location.



http://en.wikipedia..../Prime_meridian

To be accurate, you would want to use the prime meridian most likely used when Revelation was written, not the one in use today.  In using the correct prime meridian you may find the repetitive longitudinal numbers aren't there.

There would seem to be insufficient information to totally rule out the possibility that Greenwich was known to be a significant location from ancient times and this affected the choice of this site as Prime Meridian.
This seems unlikely but remains a possibility and this would explain the repetitive numbers 26,26,26 of the Longitude.
But the important clue is probably in the Latitude 39,39,39.

Bearing line 1, 110 degrees from Temple Farm, highlights the last 5 Revelation churches and ancient sites in the Holy Land.
Bearing line 2, 339.61 degrees from the Great Pyramid to Ephesus, the first Revelation church, goes close to Smyrna, the second Revelation church, actual position not clear, and then north to cross bearing line 1 near Ancient Troy at the 39,39,39 latitude. Bearing line 2  from the Great Pyramid marks the point on Bearing line 1 where the crossing occurs and it is at a significant Latitude which seems hardly likely to be a coincidence and much more likely included in the ancient landscape design as a confirmation of these 2 bearing lines.

From memory there was a great deal of discussion about where the Prime Meridian should be sited with the French wanting Paris or if not the Great Pyramid.
But the British were insistant on Greenwich which finally won.

3 repetitive numbers in a latitude has occured before in the landscape geometry of alignments from Temple Farm to the Holy Land at another very significant location but beyond the scope of this thread on UM to explain.


#824    Swede

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:29 AM

View Postshrooma, on 26 August 2013 - 01:26 AM, said:

Swede, you're on to a wrong'n here dude.
did you notice how mr furlon..., I mean laver, dodged all your points? and then said he was gonna post some ''facts'', even after you told him he was posting the same things over & over again?
he doesn't read any of the posts on here.
that's not the point of his threads.
you contradict his statements- he spams the board with the same unconvincing ''facts'' that he's been doing for over 50 pages.
trust me, you won't get any kind of sense out of him.
but good luck anyway man.....

Greetings Schrooma.

Well understand your comments. As you will note, while my contributions to these pages are not always frequent, my experience on these pages does date back a few years. Thus, certain "types" have been previously encountered and addressed.

As has been quite apparent from near the onset of this particular topic/presentation, we are dealing with factors more akin to a study of human psychology rather than anything actually dealing with credible archaeological/historical research.

That said, it is not uncommon for new (and often youthful) readers/contributors to encounter these pages.

Much of the data and rationale previously presented by myself has been submitted with the intent of informing such potentially ill-informed readers in regards to the shallow and fallacious "facts" and "associations" currently being espoused by the originator of this topic.

Would personally find it rather disturbing if such unsubstantiated drivel was allowed to proliferate without critical evaluation supported by credible research.

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#825    laver

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 03:51 PM

Factual clues that we should maybe consider when asking if this is a time of Revelation ?

Clue Number 1

The Great Pyramid in Egypt

This pyramid is a square based structure of massive proportions that experts date to around 2500 BCE
although the site selection could be much older.
It is often described as just a tomb but was built to an exact geometric shape and very accurately orientated to north and hence also possibly east as the base is square.
If you walked around the square base you would have covered the same distance as walking round a circle
whose radius, distance from the center to the circle, is the height of the pyramid. So it squares a circle.
This particular pyramid shape demonstrates basic geometric ratios Pi and Phi based on its original height
and base dimensions.
These dimensions are well established and show a height to base ratio of 7 : 11
If you take the original height of the pyramid, there is a bit missing at the top but the original height has been calculated, and divide this height by 7 and multiply the result by 11 you get the base dimension. So 7 : 11.

So if the Ancient Egyptians knew what they were building this pyramid was a massive geometric message for the future.
Some people might say that the Ancient Egyptians did not know that the pyramid they were building held these geometric messages and this could be true but the designer(s) of the pyramid must have been influencial in Egyptian society and the details of the geometry may have been kept secret and known to only a few people. But why would they have done that ?

That might depend on whether the design of the Great Pyramid was not just a demonstration of knowledge, geometric knowledge, but a key part of some greater plan or design, probably involving geometry... as we shall see that would appear to possibly be the case.

Summary of Clue 1

The design and construction of the Great Pyramid holds hidden geometric information - that is a FACT

Did the Ancient Egyptians know it held this information - possibly - but becomes very likely if we can find a reason why they might have done it.

Clue 2 - coming soon





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