39 replies to this topic

[Sean93]

Thought came to me just there.

Suppose you take the dive, die and get into paradise, whatever you want to call it, what would you do if you found someone you loved and cared about, say a friend parent or even a child...what if they're not there, what if they were damned? How would you feel, knowing that they're suffering eternal torment while you're living it up with your god? It could be be the child you watched grow, the parent you loved and looked after when they were on their death bed; maybe it's just your best friend who was there with you all the way. How do you, and indeed if it's all real we, prepare ourselves for such a predicament? Paradise is supposed to be everlasting and peaceful right, well I can't imagine knowing for eternity that my child, parent or friend is being tortured, how could we possibly be happy living with such knowledge?

Imagine living even now in the finite present, knowing that your loved one is suffering? How would you feel, function; sleep even? It'd be horrible.I often think of those parents who's children have been kidnapped. It must be absolute hell, imaging all of the horrible scenario's. This is the same thing but on a much more horrific scale as their suffering is eternal in the after life.  

I'm sure the parent's of John Wayne Gacey for example, thought of him as just an average man working his job as a clown and construction business manager...little did they know he was a mass murderer. See we don't know every aspect of a person and no matter what facade they put on their true character festers inside. Mark Twain said it correctly: 'We are all moons, we all have a dark side that no one see's.'

So, how would you feel about such a predicament?

P.s, sorry if it's a bit rushed, gotta' be someplace.

[and then]

I don't think we will remain aware of what came before.  There is a "judgement" of the works of believer's but after that I think we move into a future separate and distinct from our past here.  Your point is well taken because no feeling and loving person could be happy knowing the object of their affections was suffering.

[Rlyeh]

Ignorance is bliss.

[Hilander]

A lot of people feel you won't remember them once they are dead.

Ignorance would be bliss when it comes to something like this.  You could not be happy knowing someone you cared about is suffering.

[Sean93]

Hilander, on 03 January 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

A lot of people feel you won't remember them once they are dead.

Ignorance would be bliss when it comes to something like this.  You could not be happy knowing someone you cared about is suffering.

That's very callous isn't it?

Let's forget about our loved ones burning in pain while we eat foie gras to the sound of harps.

If I had a child or loved someone enough to be their spouse/lover, I'd rather march to hell with them than  pull a wall over my eyes and forget about them. **** that. I mean, I'd have to call into question why they are damned, if it was for something like unbelief then I'd happily follow them but if they were a child-killer/rapist who loved doing it and hated me then I'd be in two minds about it...my harsher side says "**** 'em" but I really cannot fathom living it up in paradise while someone I love/ have loved is being tortured forever.

Oh the joys of human life.

Edited by Sean93, 03 January 2013 - 05:30 PM.

[Beckys_Mom]

No, I cannot  enjoy it if my loved ones are not part of it..  To say I would, is completely selfish.. I may be a lot of things, but I am certainly not selfish..  I have and always will, put my little family before me

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 03 January 2013 - 05:49 PM.

[Hasina]

Only the damned are worth saving.

[Paranoid Android]

As a Christian I don't believe that hell is a place of suffering.  This whole matter of burning in fiery damnation with pitchforks and flames and pineapples is not a biblical concept.  My belief is that those who die without Christ suffer the punishment of eternal death - that is, much like atheists believe, when you're dead you're basically worm food.  

So for me personally, I don't have that problem of saying "what if I'm right and they're burning for eternity in pain".  If I'm wrong, and they're burning in pain, then I guess I'd feel pretty cruddy about the whole thing.

To the second part of your question - living for eternity without those we loved on earth.  To this I'll simply say that it's hard to grasp a life we have never known, and the spirit life we are suppose to inherit as Christians is an unknown to us.  It's not like the physical life we currently lead.  Spirit entities are totally different.  We won't be the same.  Will we remember those who passed away?  Some argue no, and I tend to side with that, but even if that not be the case they aren't being tormented.

~ PA

[Darkwind]

I would be miserable, best to send me to hell with my fellow Pagans.

[Ryu]

How can I feel bad about something that I do not think exists? (I emphasize 'think', not 'believe')

[Sean93]

Ryu, on 04 January 2013 - 01:00 AM, said:

How can I feel bad about something that I do not think exists? (I emphasize 'think', not 'believe')

Suppose it did and you found yourself standing on the brink watching your family or friends burn and knew they'd be doing so for ever...would you still be able to turn your back and head into the pearly gates to smoke ganja with Jesus, Mohammed, Krishna or whoever?

Edited by Sean93, 04 January 2013 - 01:12 AM.

[Sean93]

Paranoid Android, on 04 January 2013 - 12:15 AM, said:

As a Christian I don't believe that hell is a place of suffering.  This whole matter of burning in fiery damnation with pitchforks and flames and pineapples is not a biblical concept.  My belief is that those who die without Christ suffer the punishment of eternal death - that is, much like atheists believe, when you're dead you're basically worm food.  

So for me personally, I don't have that problem of saying "what if I'm right and they're burning for eternity in pain".  If I'm wrong, and they're burning in pain, then I guess I'd feel pretty cruddy about the whole thing.

To the second part of your question - living for eternity without those we loved on earth.  To this I'll simply say that it's hard to grasp a life we have never known, and the spirit life we are suppose to inherit as Christians is an unknown to us.  It's not like the physical life we currently lead.  Spirit entities are totally different.  We won't be the same.  Will we remember those who passed away?  Some argue no, and I tend to side with that, but even if that not be the case they aren't being tormented.

~ PA

Wow. That's refreshing, a Christian actually knowing when to differentiate between the Medieval/ Renaissance/ Algheri depiction of hell and that of scripture.   

If paradise is all it's cracked up to be then it'll be good for those who believe it. If death for the Atheist is as you truly believe it to be and is basically a state of non-existence then that's fine by me, and personally I'd love that; sure eternal days of peace would be better but likewise, I can see peace as nothingness, as much as some people would hate the idea of non-existent emptiness, something I can understand if they've high hopes for the afterlife.

Think of it as like being in a dreamless sleep...

Edited by Sean93, 04 January 2013 - 01:24 AM.

[Beany]

Since I've never believed in a deity that was so cruel as to condemn people to everlasting hell, that wouldn't be a concern for me. What ever happened to the notion of a loving, kind, compassionate, forgiving god? That's the God I was raised with.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

It's always been something I've thought about as well - and how can we know that the people within our potential Afterlife are the genuine articles and not just part of the paradise we find ourselves in?

[Artaxerxes]

We are all healed when we enter that light.   This Earth life is a school and the education of the soul is too important to leave it up to chance.  

We live in a holographic universe and this side is the holographic projection and the other side is the original holographic film.   When our physical body dies the soul merges back into the original holographic film, another dimension where the laws of physics are very different from this side.  

that is all there is, this side, the place we call the physical universe and the other side, the place we call heaven which is the original holographic film that our universe is a projection from.  

The physics of heaven will be the physics one might expect if one were living in or on a piece of holographic film.  

Art