108 replies to this topic

[joc]

Well...for one...I'm radioactive...

[WoIverine]

New age has begun and insn't so great, can we go back to the 90's now?

[Leave Britney alone!]

keithisco, on 10 January 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Something I am ridiculed about in this forum every year is Earth Day (and Earth Hour) - I always support it, and as long as it continues in one form or another, always will. These are all very small acts of Greater Consciousness of ourselves and our relationship to our only home (Earth). The fact that it is become a Global Phenomenon never ceases to amaze me but does give me hope that as a species we are beginning to think together, to consider others, and are beginning to "grow up".

A true "New Age" (IMO) will not begin until the reasons for maintaining machines of war are a distant memory, along with the Machines of War

Simple and to the point.

War will be a distant memory soon, within 50 years hopefully, our ethics are evolving too and always have been.

[Archimedes]

I believe you, on 10 January 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

Simple and to the point.

War will be a distant memory soon, within 50 years hopefully, our ethics are evolving too and always have been.

As long as humans are humans, war will be a fact of life.

That's not cynical or pessimistic or skeptical.  That's the facts.  Expecting homo sapiens to be a species without aggression and war is like expecting lions to stop hunting antelopes and buffalo and start eating potatoes.  It is simply the nature of the beast.  It is the way things are.

That's not to say we should simply do nothing about it, or shrug our shoulders any accept that anything goes. We should do everything to minimise our aggressive instincts and to foster international co-operation and prosperity and we should try to cut back on our methods for truly causing havoc (nuclear non-proliferation, arms cutbacks, etc.) but to think that there will be no war on planet Earth in 50 years is naive in the extreme.

You can take the human out of the wild African savannah, you can't take the wild African savannah out of the human, to rephrase an old saying.

Our ethics our evolving?  Is that really true?  The most destructive wars and genocides all happened within the last 100 years of our species 200,000 year history.  That doesn't sound like much improvement in the way of ethical evolution.

Edited by Archimedes, 10 January 2013 - 08:13 PM.

[SpiritWriter]

The new age has begun and has been underway for a while. I dont think the solstice was the exact marker though it may have been key inmarking the event.. with every change there is the adjustment period and these dont tend to be pretty. I think we will all be dead before the real 'change' is evident.. but slowly and surely it may.. its good to pay attention to the small signs and be involved in them.. peace and harmony? 100% available for us, it all depends on how we think, act and believe...

I like what another poster said, think globally, start locally. We are the change...

[Leave Britney alone!]

Archimedes, on 10 January 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

As long as humans are humans, war will be a fact of life.

That's not cynical or pessimistic or skeptical.  That's the facts.  Expecting homo sapiens to be a species without aggression and war is like expecting lions to stop hunting antelopes and buffalo and start eating potatoes.  It is simply the nature of the beast.  It is the way things are.

That's not to say we should simply do nothing about it, or shrug our shoulders any accept that anything goes. We should do everything to minimise our aggressive instincts and to foster international co-operation and prosperity and we should try to cut back on our methods for truly causing havoc (nuclear non-proliferation, arms cutbacks, etc.) but to think that there will be no war on planet Earth in 50 years is naive in the extreme.

You can take the human out of the wild African savannah, you can't take the wild African savannah out of the human, to rephrase an old saying.

Our ethics our evolving?  Is that really true?  The most destructive wars and genocides all happened within the last 100 years of our species 200,000 year history.  That doesn't sound like much improvement in the way of ethical evolution.

You are making comparisons using a single metric but you need more markers for accuracy. First of all consider the fact that a greater amount of casualties does not necessarily mean our ethics are not evolving. They are even if at the same time industrialization made possible the mechanization of war allowing for greater casualties. There is also the fact that throughout history political units have consistently evolved, both offering more safety (think being able to travel from one end of Rome to the other on their roads without worrying about every single nation you passed through and if you would be eaten by a fierce tribe who ate all strangers in an earlier era) but also more danger (think greater armies assembled on the field vs a few tribesmen with clubs) but both at the same time. It is unfair to yourself to ignore one and focus only on the other, the negative.

Our ethics are evolving, consider the following but my point is made in the last part in bold:

Quote

In this view, the term “moral” does not gain its legitimacy by virtue of its status as “received wisdom,” engraved in holy writ. Rather, the body of moral law is a prescriptive model of morality based on close observation, intuition, and extrapolation. Prophets like Moses, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Mo Tzu, Jesus, Mohammed, Sankara, and others are seen as perceptive moral philosophers with an uncanny knack for the long view.


As in science, virtually simultaneous, independent discovery of the same moral truths is not uncommon. Then and now, moral precepts can be understood as intuitive extrapolations based on empirical observations of cause and effect.

Take, for example, the commandment, “Thou shalt not kill.” It’s not hard to imagine that witnesses to tit—for—tat cycles of revenge killings concluded that “not killing” was the way to avoid deadly multi—generational feuds, and that someone—tradition credits Moses—packaged this discovery (along with other similar moral precepts) for his contemporaries and, unwittingly, for posterity.

<snippet>

As with all models, so with models of morality: close follow—up scrutiny may bring exceptions to light. Exceptions have long been sanctioned to the commandment “Thou shalt not kill”—to wit, capital punishment and warfare. But Moses may yet have the last word. As we move into the twenty—first century, the global trend to abolish capital punishment is unmistakable. Likewise, the inefficacy of war as an instrument of foreign policy is becoming clearer, and, as it does, the frequency of wars is diminishing (as documented by Steven Pinker in The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined).

http://www.psycholog...on-moral-models

Now even as wars became more brutal judging by the numbers and types of casualties, they have also became more humane, with the introduction of protocols such as the Geneva Convention and the inclusion of agencies such as the Red Cross/Crescent.

The Romans would crucify war criminals at times but even they had upwardly evolving morals for they found human sacrifice for religious ceremonies as distasteful unlike earlier eras who did not. Our most modern societies do not practice this and soon they will not practice war.

It is like a new technology, the car for instance, we don't know all the dangers when introduced but we will begin safety features and regulation of the industry to keep citizens safe. We are still working on it but cars are getting safer all the time and one day when automated will reduce human error but this is besides the point.

We also have bigger wars but in reaction we introduce bigger safety valves. The Civil War was to change the American perception of death because of how deadly it was. Before people died and were buried in tact and in a Christian view they would be resurrected, body and all.

But during the Civil War so many American sons were maimed or their remains were in pieces that the view of this had to change. Heaven became a place of spirits only. The original view became old fashioned and quaint because it would mean that if you were torn apart by mechanzied weapons or were burned to death you would not be able to be resurrected.

A nurse in the American Civil War, Clara Barton, was chief behind efforts to get America to sign the Geneva Convetion two decades later.

Good comes with bad and usually a result of it, good is a direct response to bad and the most effective, but in the end you cannot separate them, as a nation grows the amount of good it does will rise proportionatley to the amount of bad it does. The scales are tipping toward the good. The safety vales will become more efficient and powerful. Soft power vs hard power. We are going to be a better off planet for it.

Edited by I believe you, 10 January 2013 - 09:15 PM.

[kitty81]

'If you "want to believe" something enough, you'll start cherry picking evidence and massaging it and reinterpreting things until you get what you want'

yup.

[Professor T]

On the question of Human Ethics leading the change, I believe this is the case..

I saw a video by Robert Lundon, (think that's the name) thank's to some breadcrumbs that Blue d Energy left in an unrelated post..

Anyway, this guy was talking about Ethics and Morals, and what I got from 4 hours of lectures was the following:

Morals are imposed...
Ethics are Projected...

"Thou shal not kill" is an imposed Moral imo..
but "I will not kill" is an ethic I project..

Morals are imposed and as such they're easily ignored..
Ethics are projected from within, and they are guiding principles so can't be ignored..

[Lion of Judah]

The Quantum age of Space travel and Genetic enhancement of our species

[Abramelin]

I believe you, on 03 January 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

So, I am looking for positive proof that the New Age has indeed begun. Maybe you have been witness to events recently but did not recognize them for being out of the ordinary. A group spontaneously forming to help someone then dissipating just as fast. Anything to do with the collective working in harmony or to help others. Of society getting better, old problems getting fixed, etc,...

Any experiences you have had since the solstice that fit this or anything else you can think of as positive proof the New Age has begun, please add it. I want to believe.

I have grown a beard, and it's now grey instead of black like it used to be when grew one.

Sign of 'old age', I guess.

[Leave Britney alone!]

Abramelin, on 11 January 2013 - 03:23 AM, said:

I have grown a beard, and it's now grey instead of black like it used to be when grew one.

Sign of 'old age', I guess.

I am quite sure that accepting the fact we all must age and can do so gracefully will free one from violently resisting it through a torrent of products marketed at one to remain feeling young but left still afraid of growing old.

Now if you do all that you are free from the bonds of corporate mind slavery and are thus part of the New Age.

Lyrics semi-related.

Quote

I eat dinner at the kitchen table
And I wash it down with pop
I eat leftovers with mashed potatoes
No more candlelight
No more romance
No more smalltalk
When the hunger stops
When the hunger stops
Never thought that I’d end up this way
I who loved the sparks
Never thought my hair’d be turning to grey
It used to be so dark
So dark
No more candlelight
No more romance
No more smalltalk
When the hunger’s gone
No more candlelight
No more romance
No more smalltalk
When the hunger’s gone
When the hunger’s gone

http://www.mcgarrigl...he-hungers-gone

Edited by I believe you, 11 January 2013 - 03:17 PM.

[Leave Britney alone!]

WoIverine, on 10 January 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

New age has begun and insn't so great, can we go back to the 90's now?

The New Age might have begun in 1987 during the harmonic convergence. I am not up and up with all that star jazz but I do know that humanity can use whatever motif it wishes to use to progress, I will stand behind progress.

Edited by I believe you, 11 January 2013 - 03:17 PM.

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

I believe you, on 11 January 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

The New Age might have begun in 1987 during the harmonic convergence. I am not up and up with all that star jazz but I do know that humanity can use whatever motif it wishes to use to progress, I will stand behind progress.

interesting point; who knows, perhaps it might have started out in the right direction (Berlin Wall coming down, end of the Cold War etc), but then, since the old power structures were still in place in the "Free" world, they prevented, or at least delayed, things from taking their course because of course they'd do all that they could to hold on to power, so they spent much of the last 20 years looking for enemies, and inventing them if they couldn't find any. But now perhaps inevitability has caught up with them and the structures they dominate (the Global Economy, "Democracy"), and crumbling beneath them, so they, too, will soon go the way of the Berlin Wall, perhaps.

[joc]

I believe you, on 11 January 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

The New Age might have begun in 1987 during the harmonic convergence. I am not up and up with all that star jazz but I do know that humanity can use whatever motif it wishes to use to progress, I will stand behind progress.

Damn Progress!  Progress has given us what?  The ability to live longer so that we can destroy more?  Is Progress being fat, stupid and lazy?  Is Progress the ability to go to Wal-mart and buy all the crap that China can manufacture?

Give me back my Buffalo!  Give me back my beautiful plains!  Give me back my traditions!  Can Progress do that?  No.  It can only destroy.   Damn Progress!

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

joc, on 12 January 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

Damn Progress!  Progress has given us what?  The ability to live longer so that we can destroy more?  Is Progress being fat, stupid and lazy?  Is Progress the ability to go to Wal-mart and buy all the crap that China can manufacture?

Give me back my Buffalo!  Give me back my beautiful plains!  Give me back my traditions!  Can Progress do that?  No.  It can only destroy.   Damn Progress!

I agree with you there, but I think that's the point that's being made; Progress isn't just carrying on with the exploitative ways of Civilisation, it's finding a new way now that that's crumbling.