19 replies to this topic

[jugoso]

I found this article to be a good read with some good points. I´ve pasted some but the whole article is worth a read IMHO

Quote

a key aspect of the gun-control debate remains hiding in plain sight. There's a major driver of gun violence in the U.S. that is neither the bloodlust of the “criminally insane” nor the weakness of public security forces. Failed gun policy is a manifestation of another, arguably more expansive, irrational policy regime: the War on Drugs.  While the most spectacular incidents of mass murder spark public panic, a more relevant, yet typically ignored, source of gun violence lies in the brutality born of the gun industry’s marriage to drug prohibition policies.

http://inthesetimes....guns_and_drugs/

Edited by jugoso, 05 January 2013 - 09:58 PM.
Fixed text

[The New Richard Nixon]

don't think its drugs, just people being werid

[jugoso]

The New Richard Nixon, on 05 January 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

don't think its drugs, just people being werid

So in your opinion, drug related homicides have nothing to do wth drugs and current drug policy but are just  people being "weird"?

[and then]

I absolutely agree that a new approach to the drug war would reduce gun violence.  It would/could remove some of the need for violence to protect territory.  If drugs were decriminalized in the US and south/central Americas then much of the profit motive would be reduced if not eliminated.  Take away the $, take away much of the killing.  Heavy fines and an educational campaign similar to what's been done with tobacco would show real progress in a single generation I believe.  The BILLIONS spent on jails could be used for education and rehab.

[Orcseeker]

and then, on 05 January 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

I absolutely agree that a new approach to the drug war would reduce gun violence.  It would/could remove some of the need for violence to protect territory.  If drugs were decriminalized in the US and south/central Americas then much of the profit motive would be reduced if not eliminated.  Take away the $, take away much of the killing.  Heavy fines and an educational campaign similar to what's been done with tobacco would show real progress in a single generation I believe.  The BILLIONS spent on jails could be used for education and rehab.

The problem with all this though is corruption. Why do you think jails are now mainly run by private businesses? We saw this from the medical insurance companies. They have government officials on payrolls to use a government service and turn it into a profitable business. Corruption is rife and don't hope to see any change in the near future.

[Hilander]

I think the war on drugs has caused most of the gun violence.  Even legalizing marijuana would reduce the violence tremendously however I don't think I would like to see drugs like Meth legalized.  I think education is the way to go.

There should be no for profit prisons.  There is too much of an incentive to keep them full and I doubt those people would like to see even marijuana legalized because it would cut into their business too much.

[glorybebe]

Hilander, on 06 January 2013 - 12:09 AM, said:

I think the war on drugs has caused most of the gun violence.  Even legalizing marijuana would reduce the violence tremendously however I don't think I would like to see drugs like Meth legalized. I think education is the way to go.

There should be no for profit prisons.  There is too much of an incentive to keep them full and I doubt those people would like to see even marijuana legalized because it would cut into their business too much.

Totally agree.

[Orcseeker]

Hilander, on 06 January 2013 - 12:09 AM, said:

I think the war on drugs has caused most of the gun violence.  Even legalizing marijuana would reduce the violence tremendously however I don't think I would like to see drugs like Meth legalized.  I think education is the way to go.

There should be no for profit prisons.  There is too much of an incentive to keep them full and I doubt those people would like to see even marijuana legalized because it would cut into their business too much.

Marijuana being the biggest part of the Major drug dealers profits, legalising this would cause a huge blow to the one of biggest causes of crime in the US. In turn, reducing crime altogether. Therefore a drop in gun violence as the market has been cut (given the industrialised production of Marijuana is of at the same grade if not higher and at the same price if not less to gain market share).

Instead of filling the jails with drug addicts an such. See it more as a problem. Destigmatise it, allow people to come and ask for help without being worried about being arrested or questioned. Especially the hard drugs. Allow safe using/injecting stations. Which have shown to reduce overdoses.

Decriminalising the use and possession of hard drugs and catching the distributors would probably be the most desirable. Also allow proven addicts to use clean and safe instruments in the stations mentioned previously and with supplied substances. As the substances they illegally obtain may contain very harmful ingredients. While providing them with assistance in getting off the addiction and counselling. Heroin stations in Sweden which do this have shown positive results.

Sure anyone may argue they made their choice. But these choices are only here because we don't deal with it in a proper way. This War on Drugs won't work an isn't. We can learn instantly straight from history this was doomed from the beginning by looking at the prohibition of alcohol in the early 1900s. We need to take a new approach to this and given all the information readily available on this, we don't need a policeman or someone looking over our shoulder 24/7.

We take this new approach and the drug problem we have will take a major blow. Crime will reduce, gun violence will deteriorate, lives will be saved and peoples freedoms won't further be violated.

[Kafkaesque]

and then, on 05 January 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

I absolutely agree that a new approach to the drug war would reduce gun violence.  It would/could remove some of the need for violence to protect territory.  If drugs were decriminalized in the US and south/central Americas then much of the profit motive would be reduced if not eliminated.  Take away the $, take away much of the killing.  Heavy fines and an educational campaign similar to what's been done with tobacco would show real progress in a single generation I believe.  The BILLIONS spent on jails could be used for education and rehab.

Indeed. An average inmate with drug related charges has more public money spent on keeping him incarcerated than money put towards an individual child in the public school system. I may not agree with public schools on many things, but I do believe it would be wise to invest in education. If you cut out "drugs" like marijuana from the designation of "schedule one" listing by decriminalizing it - regulating it, but not condoning it or legalizing it on a federal level, it would decrease the amount of innocents gunned down by cartels - the only marijuana related deaths in the world. Granted, there would be gun violence outside the War on Drugs - but ending the War on Drugs and focusing on teaching our children the right way - and not through the Department of Education, it could end an aspect of the gun violence in America. We need to take Portugal's stance on drugs to deal with drugs.

And not only that - some of the marijuana related gun deaths in Mexico would be cut back.

Edited by Eonwe, 06 January 2013 - 02:10 AM.

[Babe Ruth]

Absolutely agree with thread proposition.  No doubt much shooting, especially in the big cities, is gang related, and gangs take a certain amount of money from the illegal drug black market.

The idiots in Congress should be talking about this.

[lightly]

The New Richard Nixon, on 05 January 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

don't think its drugs, just people being werid

  well,   i think the drug BUSINESS  is a factor in homicides ...     Remember the war that went on between rival gangs during prohibition for CONTROL  of the alcohol 'trade' ?
        i believe ,and have said many times  .. in reality,   the current "war on drugs"  is a war for CONTROL of the illegal drug BUSINE$$.

[aztek]

Hilander, on 06 January 2013 - 12:09 AM, said:

  Even legalizing marijuana would reduce the violence tremendously however I don't think I would like to see drugs like Meth legalized..

than it wont do much good. removing one **** out of cesspool wont chane things.

imagine if prohibition did not get abolshed, but instead only beer became legal, with the rest of hard liquor still outlawed, there would still be moonshiners\bootlegers, and violence\black market would still thrive.

you either allow all, or none.

the idea is not to legalize certain drug, but to remove reason for blackmarket to exsist. just legalising pot alone, wont do much.

[WoIverine]

Delete.

Edited by WoIverine, 07 January 2013 - 08:32 PM.

[lightly]

aztek, on 07 January 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

than it wont do much good. removing one **** out of cesspool wont chane things.

imagine if prohibition did not get abolshed, but instead only beer became legal, with the rest of hard liquor still outlawed, there would still be moonshiners\bootlegers, and violence\black market would still thrive.

you either allow all, or none.

the idea is not to legalize certain drug, but to remove reason for blackmarket to exsist. just legalising pot alone, wont do much.

http://en.wikipedia....s_by_U.S._state

   Prohibition never ended completely.  Many states leave it up to counties.. and many counties are still dry,  so Moonshining and Bootlegging still thrives in many areas.  
Here's a map with the DRY counties in  Red.      400px-Alcohol_control_in_the_United_States.svg.png   141.69K   3 downloads

[Babe Ruth]

lightly, on 08 January 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....s_by_U.S._state

   Prohibition never ended completely.  Many states leave it up to counties.. and many counties are still dry,  so Moonshining and Bootlegging still thrives in many areas.  
Here's a map with the DRY counties in  Red. 400px-Alcohol_control_in_the_United_States.svg.png

I'm not sure "thrives" is the right word, but you are correct that some counties are still dry.  Perhaps these days it's easier to just drive to the next wet county, buy your beer, and go back home.  I'm sure there are still some 'stills' around, but it's nothing like it used to be.  There is even a TV show on about moonshiners.