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Guns Do Not Kill People


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#241    Yamato

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:35 PM

If I ever have to pull a weapon on anyone and pull the trigger, I'm going to aim for the torso, center of mass.  I'm not even going to think about killing because it's irrelevant to the entire exercise of protecting myself.   I want to stop the attack on me, not take a life.  Thus the "purpose" of my action is not killing.

"Shoot to kill" is just rhetoric.  And it allows us to misunderstand, even our own formal training apparently.

This isn't a warzone for God's sake.  These cases that the gun controllers love to pounce on top of aren't a matter of pulling and using our weapons to kill.    I have at least some discretion in how I'm going to defend myself.   If I pull my weapon and chamber a round on my Marlin lever or Mossberg pump, and I hear the home intruder start to leave, I'm not going to chase him down, running out of the house, blasting him through the back and making sure I kill him because A) I kinda missed but saw a little blood on the wall or B)  I have to shoot to kill every time I draw my firearm or C) I don't want to go to court.   Nice try, but no spliff.   ;)

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#242    Stellar

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:38 PM

Is it just me, or does it seem like Yamato wants to completely disassociate guns and shooting from killing?

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#243    Yamato

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:43 PM

View PostStellar, on 17 January 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

Is it just me, or does it seem like Yamato wants to completely disassociate guns and shooting from killing?
No you're not alone.  It's me, too.

I associate guns with killing in circumstances where killing is the purpose; such as war.  

We actually allow our war-making federal government to control our guns for us.   I might as well allow a moonshiner to prohibit our alcohol.

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#244    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:44 PM

View PostStellar, on 17 January 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

Is it just me, or does it seem like Yamato wants to completely disassociate guns and shooting from killing?

It seems so  lol..

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#245    The Sky Scanner

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:46 PM

Maybe it's the term 'shoot to kill' that causes disagreements in opinion here, since it implies a motive at first reading, rather then 'shoot to protect (and killing may be an outcome)'

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#246    Yamato

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:47 PM

View PostSky Scanner, on 17 January 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

Maybe it's the term 'shoot to kill' that causes disagreements in opinion here, since it implies a motive at first reading, rather then 'shoot to protect (and killing may be an outcome)'
Bingo.

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#247    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:50 PM

View PostYamato, on 17 January 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

Bingo.

But when you need to deter a mass shooting, you did say blow his head off, so no it is not just in a war ..

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#248    Michelle

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:51 PM

View PostYamato, on 17 January 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

If I ever have to pull a weapon on anyone and pull the trigger, I'm going to aim for the torso, center of mass.  I'm not even going to think about killing because it's irrelevant to the entire exercise of protecting myself.   I want to stop the attack on me, not take a life.  Thus the "purpose" of my action is not killing.

"Shoot to kill" is just rhetoric.  And it allows us to misunderstand, even our own formal training apparently.

This isn't a warzone for God's sake.  These cases that the gun controllers love to pounce on top of aren't a matter of pulling and using our weapons to kill. I have at least some discretion in how I'm going to defend myself.   If I pull my weapon and chamber a round on my Marlin lever or Mossberg pump, and I hear the home intruder start to leave, I'm not going to chase him down, running out of the house, blasting him through the back and making sure I kill him because A) I kinda missed but saw a little blood on the wall or B)  I have to shoot to kill every time I draw my firearm or C) I don't want to go to court.   Nice try, but no spliff.   ;)

Of course you don't. The threat is gone and that is murder. We are only talking about imminent danger here.


#249    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:53 PM

View Postaztek, on 17 January 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

how is it opposite?, that is exactly what i said, you shoot untill he stops moving.

If he stops moving, what do you think could be the problem?   Has he  A - Stopped to take a wee rest  .. OR B - Dead ?

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#250    Yamato

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:56 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 17 January 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

But when you need to deter a mass shooting, you did say blow his head off, so no it is not just in a war ..
Yes, that was for the gun controllers.  If I do shoot and I do blow his head off, it DOESN'T MATTER.   It's a disassociation of killing from the act of defending myself, yes.   It's meeting a threat to my life or that of a loved one including my beloved dog with equal or greater force to a home invader.  Killing has absolutely nothing to do with it.   If I was Joe Rogan in a bulletproof vest I might try to subdue my opponent with kicks and choke holds.   If I ever had to shoot anyone to protect myself, and the intruder lives after going to the hospital, I will thank God in my semi-Catholic prayers I didn't have to kill anyone that day.   And that I'm alive.

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#251    HerNibs

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:01 PM

View PostSky Scanner, on 17 January 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

Maybe it's the term 'shoot to kill' that causes disagreements in opinion here, since it implies a motive at first reading, rather then 'shoot to protect (and killing may be an outcome)'

I understand what you are saying but when you are using a weapon for protection you are in a desperate situation (or should be) with your life (or some one else's) and in that situation you don't think...oh, I'll shoot him in the hand or I'll shoot him in the foot.  We were taught that since the goal is to remove the danger as fast as possible.  You pull the trigger.  You don't stop and rationalize, you don't pick an option.  

It's an ugly statement "shoot to kill" but IMO it clearly states what kind of responsibility a person has when they have a weapon.  This is a mindset that needs to be grasped before a person even considers pulling a weapon.

IF you are in the situation that you do shoot some one and they are wiggling on the floor or something like that you do NOT go over and shoot until they aren't moving.  If the danger is over then you wait for police.  

Now, if you shoot some one and they are wiggling on the floor and still have a weapon or are still a threat, yeah, you shoot again.

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#252    Yamato

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:03 PM

View PostMichelle, on 17 January 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

Of course you don't. The threat is gone and that is murder. We are only talking about imminent danger here.
Yes in the cases of imminent danger, that is, if my life is being threatened, I will put an end to that danger with my firearm.   Not shoot with even a shred of intent to kill.

Let's not forget, rhetoric like "imminent danger" was recklessly and repeatedly tossed around by the federal government.  Like "shoot to kill", it's dangerous rhetoric subject to interpretation.

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#253    aztek

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:05 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 17 January 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

If he stops moving, what do you think could be the problem?   Has he  A - Stopped to take a wee rest  .. OR B - Dead ?
i don't understand your question, i clearly stated, you shoot untill he stoppes moving, when he stopped, so should you. what is not clear about that?

Edited by aztek, 17 January 2013 - 09:05 PM.

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#254    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:05 PM

View PostYamato, on 17 January 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Yes, that was for the gun controllers.  

What on earth do you mean yes it was for the gun controllers?    

Quote

      If I do shoot and I do blow his head off, it DOESN'T MATTER.                  

It does matter  It matters to the lives you saved by doing it...

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#255    HerNibs

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:06 PM

View PostYamato, on 17 January 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

Yes in the cases of imminent danger, that is, if my life is being threatened, I will put an end to that danger with my firearm.   Not shoot with even a shred of intent to kill.

Let's not forget, rhetoric like "imminent danger" was recklessly and repeatedly tossed around by the federal government.  Like "shoot to kill", it's dangerous rhetoric subject to interpretation.

Question -

You are in your bedroom in your home.  It's 2:00 AM.  You hear a window break downstairs.  You then hear some one moving through a room.

What would you do?

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