17 replies to this topic

[Render]

Quote

The case of a Saudi man in his 90s who has married a girl of 15 has drawn widespread criticism on Twitter and other social media in the country.
Some Saudis have been asking whether the case amounts to trafficking or child abuse.
Local media reports say the man paid a dowry of $17,000 (£10,500) in order to get married to the girl.
A series of similar cases in recent years has drawn attention to the issue of child marriage in the kingdom.
The girl in the latest case was so frightened that on the wedding night she locked her husband outside the bedroom and eventually escaped back to her parents, local media reports say.
The husband is reported to be considering legal action to get either her or his dowry back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-20936800

[pitchp]

That's fair enough. It's the parents of the girl that is the problem, not the 90 year old man. If the parents are selling off their daughter for $20k, they are just trying to make money out of it. As for the 90 year old man I hope he gets his money back!

[Hasina]

The parents, the ninety year old man who basically bought a fifteen year old girl, and people who follow similar beliefs, are the problem.

Edited by Hasina, 08 January 2013 - 12:42 PM.

[and then]

Hasina, on 08 January 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

The parents, the ninety year old man who basically bought a fifteen year old girl, and people who follow similar beliefs, are the problem.

Just following the "perfect example" that was handed down by Muhammed.  Sad for the poor children there.....

[Lilly]

The buying and selling of human beings is wrong. The parents and the 90 year old man are equally responsible.

[Uncle Pockets]

and then, on 08 January 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Just following the "perfect example" that was handed down by Muhammed.  Sad for the poor children there.....

Not one bit. I am proud of the marriage between Aisha (RA) and Muhamman (SAW). This has been the norm for millennia and has only changed in the recent decades.

Are you ashamed of  the Ashkenazi who used to let older men marry young females who were younger than 12? I hope not.

Do Americans feel shame when they hear that the minimal age of sexual consent was 10 throughout the 19th century. It was 7 in Delaware.  California was one of the first states to raise the age of consent. It raised it from 10 to 14 in 1889-http://www.buddybudd...m/peters-1.html

Do Christians feel shame that the minimal age for a female to be married was 12 and was extended to 7 in some cases? I hope not.

Did the Romans feel shame over the fact that some married females after they had their first sign of puberty ? Clearly not.

The list goes on.

I am not sure why you are saddened by the poor children over there..

[Uncle Pockets]

I don't know. I don't have a problem with the act as it at least provides security for the young female and her family. There are limitations for people who are not relatives to the family. It seems as the female consented to the marriage but objected on the night. Did the man force herself in any way? No, he let her be.

[acidhead]

Love happens in mysterious ways.

[and then]

Uncle Pockets, on 17 January 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

Not one bit. I am proud of the marriage between Aisha (RA) and Muhamman (SAW). This has been the norm for millennia and has only changed in the recent decades.

Are you ashamed of  the Ashkenazi who used to let older men marry young females who were younger than 12? I hope not.

Do Americans feel shame when they hear that the minimal age of sexual consent was 10 throughout the 19th century. It was 7 in Delaware.  California was one of the first states to raise the age of consent. It raised it from 10 to 14 in 1889-http://www.buddybudd...m/peters-1.html

Do Christians feel shame that the minimal age for a female to be married was 12 and was extended to 7 in some cases? I hope not.

Did the Romans feel shame over the fact that some married females after they had their first sign of puberty ? Clearly not.

The list goes on.

I am not sure why you are saddened by the poor children over there..

I'm well aware of the traditions of the past.  The average life expectancy then required families of large size and young women often died in child birth or lived only into their 30s or 40s.  In TODAY'S culture it is wrong for such a thing to happen IMO.  And taking a nine year old child is sick - period.  In fact I'd call it barbaric, regardless who does it.

[Uncle Pockets]

and then, on 17 January 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

I'm well aware of the traditions of the past.  The average life expectancy then required families of large size and young women often died in child birth or lived only into their 30s or 40s.  In TODAY'S culture it is wrong for such a thing to happen IMO.  And taking a nine year old child is sick - period.  In fact I'd call it barbaric, regardless who does it.

Of the past? Do the Haredi's not marry females who are much younger than them? Do a number of Orthodox Jews not do so as well ?

I think you know they lived much longer than that. Do the Sephardi and Ashkenazi "seem" to live quite long as well or do they live quite long?

This is your opinion at the end of the day.

[Ryu]

Just because something is traditional doesn't make it right.
Sadly no one has learned anything because if there was any learning going on then the old man would have said "No".

A ninety year old has no business marrying a child regardless of culture and "tradition."

Quote

Do Americans feel shame when they hear that the minimal age of sexual consent was 10 throughout the 19th century. It was 7 in Delaware.  California was one of the first states to raise the age of consent. It raised it from 10 to 14 in 1889..

Do Christians feel shame that the minimal age for a female to be married was 12 and was extended to 7 in some cases? I hope not.

I am sickened by it. Don't forget that "back then" many people seemed to have had no concept of childhood and viewed children either as mini-adults or just some class of peasant to be used, abused, exploited, sold or killed.
Times change as they should and so should so-called "traditions" and culture

Edited by Ryu, 17 January 2013 - 09:11 PM.

[and then]

Uncle Pockets, on 17 January 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

Of the past? Do the Haredi's not marry females who are much younger than them? Do a number of Orthodox Jews not do so as well ?

I think you know they lived much longer than that. Do the Sephardi and Ashkenazi "seem" to live quite long as well or do they live quite long?

This is your opinion at the end of the day.

Quite so.

[meryt-tetisheri]

Uncle Pockets, on 17 January 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't know. I don't have a problem with the act as it at least provides security for the young female and her family. There are limitations for people who are not relatives to the family. It seems as the female consented to the marriage but objected on the night. Did the man force herself in any way? No, he let her be.

I'm commenting on this post and the previous one, and trying to look at the case from an Islamic point of view. You are comparing this marriage with that of the Prophet and Aisha, but in doing so, aren't you also comparing the contemporary 'groom' to the Prophet? Does the comparison of both in character and personality hold according to your beliefs?

Also, as far as I know, compatibility between spouses is a rule in Islamic traditions governing marriage, how compatible are 90 and 15? How serious or solid would such a marriage be?

Finally, the 90 years old man, if his concern was charitable support of the family, could have donated money or become a kafeel to a father or brother if he cannot be so to the young girl. This case is obviously a transaction, probably with the bride becoming a nurse and househelp. Both the groom and the parents are accountable and guilty, not the teenager who couldn't get along with their plans.

[ExpandMyMind]

and then, on 08 January 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Just following the "perfect example" that was handed down by Muhammed.  Sad for the poor children there.....

Hardly something handed down by Muhammed. It is an old, backward culture problem, not simply a religious one. Hell, in most Western countries, as little as 150 years ago, the legal age for marriage was 13!

[and then]

ExpandMyMind, on 18 January 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

Hardly something handed down by Muhammed. It is an old, backward culture problem, not simply a religious one. Hell, in most Western countries, as little as 150 years ago, the legal age for marriage was 13!

The fact that others behaved in such a way does not take away the excuse some Muslims use of mimicking Muhammad's example.  Their scripture tells them he is the only perfect example of behavior.  NINE is not 13 Ex.....  An adult male that is sexually aroused by a nine year old child is mentally ill in my humble opinion.