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Other side of gun ownership


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#376    aztek

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:57 PM

View PostHasina, on 15 January 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

Wait, I have a question about this 'lock guns up' thing.

Why do I, a law abiding citizen, on my own property, in my own house, have to lock up my legally obtained firearm? I have no kids, I live with my father and sister, both adults and even better trained with weapons then I.
cuz "what if they get stolen" argument, and besides you don't neeed guns with easy access, it doesn't make "them" feel comfortable. their comfort is above your safety. those pretty much arguments they have.

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#377    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:10 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 15 January 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Not quite:





Now that's the guy to go to for a good safe .. Liked the video

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#378    Stellar

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:16 PM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 15 January 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:


You keep telling everyone they can't do what they want.


Well, yes in a way I am. That's what the law is. If someone kept walking around pointing a loaded gun to everyone's head, wouldn't you tell them they can't do that? I'm not trying to make any exaggerations and compare unlocked guns to loaded guns pointed at people's heads, just that society does place limits on what people can and can't do, and rightly so.

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My couch has a drawer, maybe I'd like to keep it in there while I'm hanging downstairs or maybe I'd like to keep it on top of the bookshelf out of site. It is you who insists I keep it locked in a safe at all times and the only place I'd keep a safe is in an upstairs room. That's how it is.

I did not say that. I said that it should be locked in a safe when you can no longer directly control it. If you're sitting in the basement watching tv, you could keep it on your lap for all I care.

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That's where I'd want it and that is where I'd put one. Not in my living rooms or kitchen.

Keep it there all you want, as long as you lock it up when you leave the house.

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It's none of your damn business to be so concerned with every minute detail of how a person lives inside their own home. IT's not up to you.

It'll sure be my business if your gun is used to commit a crime against me because you couldn't be bothered to lock it in a safe when leaving your home.


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Again. You're an intrusive know-it-all. My fiancée is a real light sleeper. Movement wakes me up. She would move me. I have a dog. She hears everything. She'll wake us up.

So then you're saying you'll be woken up with plenty of early warning?

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So how about you quit worrying about me. Seems like you have all the answers figured out for yourself so you'll be OK. It's time you mind your own because you aren't debating. You're telling everyone what to do and how to do it because you think that you do everything right.

I'm simply following the law in my country, and I happen to agree with it. Of course I think that it's right, that's why I'm arguing for it. That's also what the law is, it's a set of rules that the general population agrees with, believes are right and force those who may disagree to abide to them. I see nothing wrong with my position. If enough people in your country shared my thoughts and decided to make it a law that weapons should be locked up in a safe when no longer under the direct control of their owner, who are you to disobey that law?

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#379    Stellar

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:19 PM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 15 January 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:


You keep telling everyone they can't do what they want.


Well, yes in a way I am. That's what the law is. If someone kept walking around pointing a loaded gun to everyone's head, wouldn't you tell them they can't do that? I'm not trying to make any exaggerations and compare unlocked guns to loaded guns pointed at people's heads, just that society does place limits on what people can and can't do, and rightly so.

Quote

My couch has a drawer, maybe I'd like to keep it in there while I'm hanging downstairs or maybe I'd like to keep it on top of the bookshelf out of site. It is you who insists I keep it locked in a safe at all times and the only place I'd keep a safe is in an upstairs room. That's how it is.

I did not say that. I said that it should be locked in a safe when you can no longer directly control it. If you're sitting in the basement watching tv, you could keep it on your lap for all I care.

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That's where I'd want it and that is where I'd put one. Not in my living rooms or kitchen.

Keep it there all you want, as long as you lock it up when you leave the house.

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It's none of your damn business to be so concerned with every minute detail of how a person lives inside their own home. IT's not up to you.

It'll sure be my business if your gun is used to commit a crime against me because you couldn't be bothered to lock it in a safe when leaving your home.


Quote

Again. You're an intrusive know-it-all. My fiancée is a real light sleeper. Movement wakes me up. She would move me. I have a dog. She hears everything. She'll wake us up.

So then you're saying you'll be woken up with plenty of early warning?

Quote

So how about you quit worrying about me. Seems like you have all the answers figured out for yourself so you'll be OK. It's time you mind your own because you aren't debating. You're telling everyone what to do and how to do it because you think that you do everything right.

I'm simply following the law in my country, and I happen to agree with it. Of course I think that it's right, that's why I'm arguing for it. That's also what the law is, it's a set of rules that the general population agrees with, believes are right and force those who may disagree to abide to them. I see nothing wrong with my position. If enough people in your country shared my thoughts and decided to make it a law that weapons should be locked up in a safe when no longer under the direct control of their owner, who are you to disobey that law?

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

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#380    Stellar

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:27 PM

View PostHasina, on 15 January 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:


If I'm downstairs, there's the shotgun under my father's bed. If I'm upstairs, there's the pistol in my sister's nightstand and my revolver in my nightstand.

So you're not worried about the gun being imminently available since you're willing to go through different rooms on your floor to get to the gun, but 4s to get into a safe is unreasonable? What about when you're not home? Where are the guns then?

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#381    Stellar

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:32 PM

View Postaztek, on 15 January 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

lmao, 100$ safe, and he is teaching us how to keep our guns safe? what a joke.
anyone can open that 100$ safe with a crowbar in 10 sec. and steal all guns.  
lol, like i've always been saying illusions are addictive and dangerous.

Oh yeah? Go ahead and try it. Not going to happen. The safe is quite sturdy (firearms safes in Canada are made to NOT be easily breakable).  I can assure you it's much more sturdy than a wooden drawer.

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#382    Stellar

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:34 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 15 January 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:



If the thief can pick it up and carry it away to open it at leisure in his own garage it kind of defeats its purpose.

I agree, that's why I don't believe in those small lock boxes. My locker is too big to be able to run away with, and it bolts into the wall from the inside.

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#383    HerNibs

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:36 PM

View PostStellar, on 15 January 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

I agree, that's why I don't believe in those small lock boxes. My locker is too big to be able to run away with, and it bolts into the wall from the inside.

The only two week keep in lock boxes are two of our handguns.  (With trigger guards.)

These two are for "home defense".  It's not the best solution but ... it's what we do.

Nibs

ETA - :)  NO ONE is running off with our safe.  Not even several no ones.

Edited by HerNibs, 15 January 2013 - 08:36 PM.

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#384    Hasina

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:37 PM

View PostStellar, on 15 January 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:



So you're not worried about the gun being imminently available since you're willing to go through different rooms on your floor to get to the gun, but 4s to get into a safe is unreasonable? What about when you're not home? Where are the guns then?
Why? Planning on breaking in and getting them? Need to know all this info for some fact sheet? You haven't seen my home, you don't know how close I am to a weapon at all time (I also keep a pocket knife on my person at all times nowadays).

I don't care what the criminals are going to do. They're breaking a law, they're in the wrong, I am a law abiding citizen. If I'm out of the house, well, I guess they'll get stolen. If someone breaks in while I'm at home, they've probably come with their own weapon.

You never answered my question though, you just keep trying to weasel in ways that a law breaker could undermine my rights as a law abiding citizen. Should I also never undress in my own home because someone could break in and see my nudeness and react like an animal?

Why do I, a law abiding citizen, on my own property, in my own home, have to lock up my legal obtained and registered weapon?

Edited by Hasina, 15 January 2013 - 08:39 PM.

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#385    green_dude777

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:50 PM

View PostHasina, on 15 January 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

Why? Planning on breaking in and getting them? Need to know all this info for some fact sheet? You haven't seen my home, you don't know how close I am to a weapon at all time (I also keep a pocket knife on my person at all times nowadays).

I don't care what the criminals are going to do. They're breaking a law, they're in the wrong, I am a law abiding citizen. If I'm out of the house, well, I guess they'll get stolen. If someone breaks in while I'm at home, they've probably come with their own weapon.

You never answered my question though, you just keep trying to weasel in ways that a law breaker could undermine my rights as a law abiding citizen. Should I also never undress in my own home because someone could break in and see my nudeness and react like an animal?

Why do I, a law abiding citizen, on my own property, in my own home, have to lock up my legal obtained and registered weapon?

I agree, I don't understand why I have to change how I live to account for those who break the law.

I'm also one who thinks if we all carried and maintained a firearm, we could be weeding out those who don't want to live in a civilized society.  I guarantee that Mr. Holmes wouldn't have had the kill count he had if everyone in the theater had a firearm, same goes for those teachers in Connecticut.  A principal and school psychologist (along with 25 other people) might both be alive had they been active firearm carriers, but the law didn't allow it.  Heck, if both of them had a firearm, and only one of them died, I would take that over 27.


#386    Stellar

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:58 PM

View PostHasina, on 15 January 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

I don't care what the criminals are going to do.

You don't care? Well I do. I certainly do care if a criminal steals my guns because I made it easy for him.  Maybe the true gun problem in the US is that people just don't care...

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If I'm out of the house, well, I guess they'll get stolen.

And that's my problem right there. Instead of taking the time to ensure the gun is locked away so that a criminal is not likely to steal it, you simply don't care to do it. What is the reason? Complacency? Lack of responsibility? Laziness?

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Why do I, a law abiding citizen, on my own property, in my own home, have to lock up my legal obtained and registered weapon?

Well, right now you don't have to. Nothing in the law requires you to do so. I believe you should though, and I believe the law should be changed to reflect that. Why do I believe in this? So that when you're not home and get robbed, your guns aren't stolen and potentially used against me or anyone else. A person shouldn't be allowed, legally, to be careless to the point where their carelessness potentially puts other peoples lives in danger.

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

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#387    Odds

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:04 PM

View Postgreen_dude777, on 15 January 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

I agree, I don't understand why I have to change how I live to account for those who break the law.

I'm also one who thinks if we all carried and maintained a firearm, we could be weeding out those who don't want to live in a civilized society.  I guarantee that Mr. Holmes wouldn't have had the kill count he had if everyone in the theater had a firearm, same goes for those teachers in Connecticut.  A principal and school psychologist (along with 25 other people) might both be alive had they been active firearm carriers, but the law didn't allow it.  Heck, if both of them had a firearm, and only one of them died, I would take that over 27.

Just to ask, are you saying if everyone had a gun that there would be a smaller death count? Not everyone is a marksman, and i am pretty sure there would be many more deaths if everyone is firing...

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#388    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:11 PM

View PostStellar, on 15 January 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

Well, right now you don't have to. Nothing in the law requires you to do so. I believe you should though, and I believe the law should be changed to reflect that. Why do I believe in this? So that when you're not home and get robbed, your guns aren't stolen and potentially used against me or anyone else. A person shouldn't be allowed, legally, to be careless to the point where their carelessness potentially puts other peoples lives in danger.

I have to agree here... If I valued my gun, I would not be likely to leave it laying around the house for any joe blogs to pinch it along with my other possessions ..  

I would freak out if someone broke into my home, nabbed my gun, killed some innocent kid, and later I find out  the kid was killed by my weapon..I am not saying they wouldn't have gotten the weapon elsewhere,  but the fact that it was MY weapon, that would make me feel so much worse..  I could imagine what others would say if they knew I was lazy enough to leave such a weapon laying around and it was stolen to kill some innocent kid....

My gun  ( if I owned one ) would be my responsibility

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 15 January 2013 - 09:14 PM.

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#389    green_dude777

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:23 PM

View PostOdds, on 15 January 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

Just to ask, are you saying if everyone had a gun that there would be a smaller death count? Not everyone is a marksman, and i am pretty sure there would be many more deaths if everyone is firing...

Think about your final statement for just a moment....


I'm just poking fun... It is kind of a contradictory statement, but I see what you're getting at.

My following statements are speculative, there is no direct data to support this thought.

No, I think the death count initially would be only slightly less, but the victims death count would be down, and shooter death count would be up.  After some time, we won't have as many shooters, because instead of surrendering after shooting someone they were unhappy with, they will be dead.  The dead in real life is more traumatic than the dead in a video game, there are no respawns.  The first few videos showing these shooters getting smoked by other civilians, and it makes youtube from people videotaping what was going on, will set a fine example for a disturbed person on what to expect. No more glorious media coverage for your court case, no more cool nickname for you or your tragic event.  Just a dead shooter, with others spitting and flinging their opinions of the POS who just tried to victimize people.  Instead of a James Holmes or an Adam Lanza, we have the guy who had a 5 minute youtube video of him getting what everyone would consider actual justice.


#390    AsteroidX

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:49 PM

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