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Ohio School Janitors To Carry Handguns


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#31    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:51 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 11 January 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

Lets see what comes of it, but my experience with vigilante type initiatives tell me that it either fizzles out or end in disaster.  I wish them the best.

I hope we don't ever have to hear of anything negative that comes from it...  If I wanted to hear anything good, it would be that one of them actually prevented a shooting and saved the day.. Like I said, I would rather hear no news at all that links to more shootings

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#32    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:55 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 11 January 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

A janitor, is that sort of like a caretaker? Ian Huntley comes to mind, he didn`t have a gun but he did have a permit to work there.


Whos monitoring the monitors?

Ian Huntley was one mad man who preyed on kids...I think it is now more of a case of bolting the stable door AFTER the horse is long gone.. What I mean by that is, they would carry out mental backgrounds of any employee of the school.. I think maybe around the time Huntley was killing those two little girls, they may well have slacked off.and not bothered checking his mental heath / medical background? .. I really don't know..but  you don't usually hear of a school caretaker doing that often..

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#33    aztek

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:56 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 11 January 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

The janitors are buying the guns themselves.. They obviously wanted to do this

not obvious they want it. that is school board desision, not janitors initiative. may be they want it, may be not.
but being it small rural town, and only 4 ppl are to be armed, who knows, may be you right. but i don't see many janitors willing to jump on it.
idk how it is in small rural towns, but usually anyone one working for school are union, i don't see how this desision  would fly with no union being involved.( i know cleaner union would not allow cleaners to climb ladders to wipe light fixturers, for the risk of fall, ), and would agree on that without long negotiation. but may be small rural towns have different rules.

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#34    Yamato

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:58 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 11 January 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

Nobody tells me that, but it is a pretty dumb idea to make a potential goat the gardener... at least if you want to reap anything from the garden.

It could be that there are very stable and reliable people under those janitors, but that cannot be determined in a two day "safety" course, and that just for starters.
A goat?   How about a three day course?   What/who determines it?

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#35    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:59 PM

View Postaztek, on 11 January 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

not obvious they want it. that is school board desision, not janitors initiative. may be they want it, may be not.
but being it small rural town, and only 4 ppl are to be armed, who knows, may be you right. but i don't see many janitors willing to jump on it.
idk how it is in small rural towns, but usually anyone one working for school are union, i don't see how this desision  would fly with no union being involved.( i know cleaner union would not allow cleaners to climb ladders to wipe light fixturers, for the risk of fall, ), and would agree on that without long negotiation. but may be small rural towns have different rules.

I didn't read anything about them refusing..And no one can make them go off an buy their own guns to do the job either.. I also doubt it is a case of forcing them to do it or else?

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#36    freetoroam

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:00 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 11 January 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

They agreed to go off and buy their own guns.. Whether that means they like their job and want to protect the kids or not? is something I cannot call...
lets hope they have all been properly investigated first. do not know what the procedures are when employing them in the first place, but hopefully they are of all sane minds and fully trustworthy, they are after all, janitors.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#37    aztek

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:01 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 11 January 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

It could be that there are very stable and reliable people under those janitors, but that cannot be determined in a two day "safety" course, and that just for starters.

i'm pretty sure school board knows their janitors better that you ever will, so if they deside to arm them, i 'm sure they know better that you sitting down thousands of miles away and thinking you know better than everyone else. don't you think?
don't bother answering it, it was retorical question

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#38    aztek

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:02 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 11 January 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:

I didn't read anything about them refusing..And no one can make them go off an buy their own guns to do the job either.. I also doubt it is a case of forcing them to do it or else?

union can.

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#39    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:04 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 11 January 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

lets hope they have all been properly investigated first. do not know what the procedures are when employing them in the first place, but hopefully they are of all sane minds and fully trustworthy, they are after all, janitors.

I too do not know what steps / procedures they have at the time of employing them, but I would reckon they would make sure that these men ( all four of them ) are not only willing, but mentally stable and ready to protect.... If this (sooner or later ) goes pear shaped , there would be a lot to answer for?    But hopefully it won't go wrong..

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#40    freetoroam

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:04 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 11 January 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

Ian Huntley was one mad man who preyed on kids...I think it is now more of a case of bolting the stable door AFTER the horse is long gone.. What I mean by that is, they would carry out mental backgrounds of any employee of the school.. I think maybe around the time Huntley was killing those two little girls, they may well have slacked off.and not bothered checking his mental heath / medical background? .. I really don't know..but  you don't usually hear of a school caretaker doing that often..
its the not bothering or slacking off that concerns me, Huntleys incident was rare, gun shootings in the US not so, which means a whole lot more work involved.
Someone slacked off here, whos going to make sure no one slacks off there?

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#41    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:08 PM

View Postaztek, on 11 January 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

i'm pretty sure school board knows their janitors better that you ever will, so if they deside to arm them, i 'm sure they know better that you sitting down thousands of miles away and thinking you know better than everyone else. don't you think?
don't bother answering it, it was retorical question

You mean a pointless question?   Because all I can see from your post is nothing more than an assumption and rather pointless. . All questionmark is doing is sharing what he does know and his opinions, pretty much like the rest of us

View Postaztek, on 11 January 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

union can.

And their union may well have agreed along with the board..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 11 January 2013 - 10:09 PM.

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#42    rashore

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:08 PM

Just digging around info, and thought I'd share..

The Montpelier website, which are the two schools involved in this:
http://www.montpelie...h.us/index.aspx

They have a couple PDF's on their website pertaining to this, I downloaded and CCP'd for those that don't like to do PDF's. The only line in their meeting pertaining to this is article 9

Quote

9. Approved a resolution authorizing certain individuals to carry concealed firearms on school premises pursuant to O.R.C. § 2923.122
And this is the community notice

Quote

1/10/13
To: Montpelier Parents, Faculty and Community From: Dr. Jamison J. Grime Re: Conceal Carry at Montpelier Schools
The Board of Education at its January 9. 2013 meeting passed a resolution in open session allowing certain selected individuals to conceal carry firearms on the premises of Montpelier Schools. There have been many questions asked today and I hope to clarify some of those questions with this communication.
1. Willteachersbecarryingfirearms?No.Noemployeeunderthedirect supervision of students will be carrying a firearm at school.
2. Whattrainingwilltheseselectedindividualsreceive?Theseindividualswill be required to complete an approved CCW course and the Tactical Defense Institute will be hosting a 2-day training in early to mid March.
3. Arethereindividualscarryingconcealedweaponsnow?Noonewillbe carrying a concealed firearm for at least one month. It will take time to properly train people and this must be completed before the plan will be enacted.
4. Whywasthisdone?Wetakegreatprideinensuringthatourfacilityis safe and secure but the BOE and administration believed that this proactive measure would substantially enhance and strengthen our security efforts.
5. Whyweren’ttheparentsnotified?Thisplanwaspreparedinclose conjunction with local law enforcement. The plan will not be enacted for many weeks, which allows for adequate time to notify parents of the plan.
Please remember that as the superintendent of schools, your child’s education and safety are my first priorities. If you have any questions, please feel free to notify me at I removed the phone and email for sensitivity reasons.
Sincerely,
Dr. Jamison J. Grime

Here's a link to O.R.C. § 2923.122:
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.122

What is CCW course and the Tactical Defense Institute? It's more than just book training, it also requires a certain amount of on hands training. Here's a link for that too:
http://tdiohio.com/ohio-ccw-class/

And for those that might be wondering what the armed teacher training program that over a 1,000 teachers have signed up for, here is a nice little Q&A about the program.
http://www.buckeyefi...s.org/node/8721
I thought this an interesting Q&A to quote

Quote

Q: What will the training include?
A: Applicants will have already covered basic firearm safety and marksmanship during the training for their Concealed Handgun License. Therefore, our training will be on a more advanced level and will focus specifically on how to effectively respond to "active killer" scenarios in a school environment.
In addition to firearm techniques, our training will also cover other skill sets, including medical trauma care, which is critical to saving lives in mass killing situations.



#43    questionmark

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:09 PM

View PostYamato, on 11 January 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

A goat?   How about a three day course?   What/who determines it?

The first that should determine it is: How stable are those janitors, because it is not a problem if somebody is an alcoholic, suffers from PTS, uses drugs or whatheveyou if he is cleaning up the messes in the school. Mostly nobody cares. And that should be determined by the same means, with much narrower criteria, as if somebody is capable of guarding the law. And the much narrower criteria is that they will be guarding a much more sensitive area than anybody guarding a bank, or writing parking tickets. They will be guarding kids.

The second determination is: How able are they to actually fire the damn gun in the right direction. And that surely cannot be done in a two day "safety instruction". And the third determination should whether they learned anything at all during the "instruction", for which there seem to be no provisions either.

The whole durn thing is half baked and pretty preposterous.

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#44    aztek

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:09 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 11 January 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

lets hope they have all been properly investigated first. do not know what the procedures are when employing them in the first place, but hopefully they are of all sane minds and fully trustworthy, they are after all, janitors.
it is a small rural town only 4 ppl are to be armed, in towns like that everyone knows everyone, sherrifs, teachers, store clerks.... i'm sure they know who they make carry guns.

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#45    aztek

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:10 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 11 January 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

You mean a pointless question?   Because all I can see from your post is nothing more than an assumption and rather pointless. . All questionmark is doing is sharing what he does know and his opinions, pretty much like the rest of us

And their union may well have agreed along with the board..

assumption?? that school board knows better than him??? lol, it is pretty much  fact.

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