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#196    nopeda

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:17 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 15 January 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

Quote

nopeda, on 15 January 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:
If an unexplained vehicle is found with bodies in it and is reported to police, the military and the news, and then later it's reported as only having been a weather balloon even though there was a lot more to it than that, then it's a cover up. And so far from my pov it seems like an amusing one, since it seems it would also have to be claimed that a number of different people somehow had the same hallucination about bodies.
Right, and you believe everything you read?
Of course not. No one :no: does. So what specifically is it you think you're trying to talk about?


#197    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:20 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 15 January 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

Good for you. And you verified these as being what was claimed (as extraterrestrials) how exactly? The only thing this is evidence of is that you saw documents and pictures and NOT that they were evidence of ET's.

cormac

Robert Sarbacher said that the little "humanoid" guys of the type that died in that crash were really artificial life forms of some kind, designed for space travel.  Here again, the Joint Research and Development Board was in control of those investigations, although I have no way of knowing where those records would be today.

If they were the type of thing I saw, there would no longer be any need for discussions like these about UFOs and ETs since the whole world would know it was true.  I am sure there are still gatekeepers somewhere who are in charge of these old records, which are not part of the regular system of records at all.


#198    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:21 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 15 January 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

Good for you. And you verified these as being what was claimed (as extraterrestrials) how exactly? The only thing this is evidence of is that you saw documents and pictures and NOT that they were evidence of ET's.

cormac
SO by this argument, no one will ever accept anything, even official documents, unless they can see it with their own eyes? So people never will be convinced, even if the U. S. Govt. was to release pictures and documents of ETs and ET craft, unless everyone can verify it as being what was claimed?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#199    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:25 PM

I have heard that the Army's Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit originally had Army Counterintelligence units to do field investigations and "collections" of material, and it would not surprise me if the Army still retained such capabilities today, but sometime in the 1950s this also seems to have been folded into Project Moon Dust and Blue Fly, which were under Air Force auspices but operated out of Ft. Belvoir, Virginia.

Project UFO was part of Moon Dust and Blue Fly, although it's very difficult to get any records about it.  I am sure that the Army always wanted to keep its hand in when it came to UFOs and any material obtained from them, even though of all the military services it has always had the LEAST to say in public about UFOs.

For the Air Force, UFOs turned into a big public relations headache and it seems they could sometimes take a very hard line on any of their people who reported them or showed any interest in the subject, but I never encountered anything like that in the Army--not even slightly .  I know they had a lot of information about them going back many decades and never found any great hostility toward discussing the subject.  I think they just knew it was real.

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 15 January 2013 - 07:37 PM.


#200    nopeda

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:28 PM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 15 January 2013 - 07:09 PM, said:

As for the professional UFO "skeptics", I have never been able to convince a single one of them about anything in my life, regardless of what evidence I had.  I have never seen them budge a single inch on any UFO case or admit there was anything to it, no matter what.

Have you ever seen one of them who would change their views one iota on a single UFO case?  I never have.  It's like trying to argue with religious fundamentalists about the Bible.  Nothing you can say will have even the slightest effect.

Can you think of any exceptions to this?  Ever?  I can't, no matter whether it's at UM or anywhere else.
For years I was convinced that xts could not be flying around in our atmosphere or humans would be able to detect them with radar. I was less convinced about whether or not they had been here in the past. Later after seeing the evidence AA presents I re-thought my original belief and realised that if beings could travel from one star to another then they can probably absorb or reflect electromagnetic energy pretty much as they wish meaning we wouldn't be able to detect them with radar unless they allowed it or had a malfunction, which seems less likely from my pov. I had to figure out on my own how it could be possible though, because no one explained it to me or has even seemed to think it's significant since I started mentioning it to people.


#201    cormac mac airt

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:32 PM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 15 January 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

SO by this argument, no one will ever accept anything, even official documents, unless they can see it with their own eyes? So people never will be convinced, even if the U. S. Govt. was to release pictures and documents of ETs and ET craft, unless everyone can verify it as being what was claimed?

Official documents have also been used for the purposes of mis-direction. And quite effectively too, particularly during the Cold War. That doesn't really help to validate the claim of ET's any.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#202    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:42 PM

View Postnopeda, on 15 January 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

For years I was convinced that xts could not be flying around in our atmosphere or humans would be able to detect them with radar. I was less convinced about whether or not they had been here in the past. Later after seeing the evidence AA presents I re-thought my original belief and realised that if beings could travel from one star to another then they can probably absorb or reflect electromagnetic energy pretty much as they wish meaning we wouldn't be able to detect them with radar unless they allowed it or had a malfunction, which seems less likely from my pov. I had to figure out on my own how it could be possible though, because no one explained it to me or has even seemed to think it's significant since I started mentioning it to people.

I've never made much study of all the UFO reports from the distant past, but have no problem with the idea that some of them have been around for a very long time, and that time probably does not mean the same thing to them that it does to us.  We're talking about civilizations that may have qualitatively different ideas from ours when it comes to space, time, science, intelligence, biology and so on, including the existence of intelligent machines.

I don't doubt that they have craft that can be invisible or stealthy, not detectable on radar, at least not unless they want to be detected.  They have been known to monitor our communications and sometimes even mimic IFF signals, although generally they do not respond when contacted by radio.


#203    cormac mac airt

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:42 PM

View Postnopeda, on 15 January 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

Of course not. No one :no: does. So what specifically is it you think you're trying to talk about?

There's a difference between a cover-up to hide the existance of ET's and a cover-up to hide the truth. One doesn't necessarily equate to the other. I would have expected you to know the difference between the two but then I guess I was wrong. It's just as valid an argument IMO that the original story (your Roswell allusion) was a cover-up to direct peoples attention away from what the military really didn't want people to know, whatever that happened to be.

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt, 15 January 2013 - 07:43 PM.

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#204    SurgeTechnologies

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:37 PM

View Postnopeda, on 15 January 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

Do you have any evidence that any other earthlike planets have been discovered? If so, please present it. It's not that I doubt they exist, but I don't believe we can tell yet.

Well everyone favourites NASA

http://why.knovel.co...ke-planets.html
http://www.zmescienc...y-way-29032012/

Here is a winner :

http://www.space.com...ien-planet.html

" Technology has exceeded our humanity. "

#205    SurgeTechnologies

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:47 PM

This is logic 1on1 ... you have trillions of solar systems that are very very similar to ours.. so saying there is no other life or no proof exists of such thing is pure ignorance...
The problem is in vastness of space for start... You will find building blocks of life on all of those earthlike planets... missing materials from which primitve life started here on earth, is in my theory brought by asteroids and meteorites... so that brings us to how many similar events happened out there..

If drake equation would be at least 1% right we are looking at possible 50 alien civilizations nearby ( by nearby i mean million of light years away ). Even then the real science made calculations of probability ( they took in all that we knew at the time ). I for one don't need any proof of such a obvious thing...
....the question for me is when?

Edit: Sorry nopeda for going abit offtopic..

Edited by Nuke_em, 15 January 2013 - 09:10 PM.

" Technology has exceeded our humanity. "

#206    Quaentum

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:33 PM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 15 January 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

I saw the documents and pictures of three ET bodies in a crashed "saucer" that were collected in the field.  It was somewhere in the Southwest around 1953 and had a lot of similarities to the rumored crash at Kingman, Arizona.  I don't know where all this was sent for examination, but I suspect that it was more than one location, not just Wright-Patterson.
'
Trying to find that out is a big shell game.
Yet

it is just your claim and may not be factual.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#207    SwampgasBalloonBoy

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:49 PM

View Postnopeda, on 15 January 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

For years I was convinced that xts could not be flying around in our atmosphere or humans would be able to detect them with radar. I was less convinced about whether or not they had been here in the past. Later after seeing the evidence AA presents I re-thought my original belief and realised that if beings could travel from one star to another then they can probably absorb or reflect electromagnetic energy pretty much as they wish meaning we wouldn't be able to detect them with radar unless they allowed it or had a malfunction, which seems less likely from my pov. I had to figure out on my own how it could be possible though, because no one explained it to me or has even seemed to think it's significant since I started mentioning it to people.

If we have stealth technology that can evade radar, I think aliens are perfectly capable of evading radar if they choose. Here's another reason on why commercial air traffic controller might not be able to detect them.

Here's what it said, "Normally, in a planes formation of seven planes, only the lead plane would turn on is transponder so air traffic controllers could track it. If the lead plane's transponder was turned off, however, the seven planes could passed by without detection"

Another part said, "The Air Traffic System is designed to identify aircraft who want to be identified. I have been aware of instances where the transponder of a medium sized aircraft failed and we flat never saw the guy on the digitized radar. It is very easy to elude FAA radar..."

http://home.comcast..../UFO/azconc.htm


#208    SwampgasBalloonBoy

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:04 PM

At one time, Europeans didn't know the existence of the Americas. It was inhabited all along!

Damn, you skeptics are hard to please. If Kate Upton wanted to sleep with one of you, you'll needs to hire a biologist to take her DNA and have a lab confirmed that she is an actual female. Even then the lab could make a mistake, so you'll need to hire a gynecologist to examines her. Meanwhile, she'd move on to one of us "believer". Since we believers trust our eyes and ears, we'll just go for it. Lets say she got pregnant by a "believer" and gave birth. You skeptics will now believe that she's an actual female. I guess you guys will be 2nd or 3rd or 4th. :D

@ Rlyeh  A wise man sometime admits defeat and move on. Quillius pointed out to you multiple times, but you just failed to see the logic. You do not do yourself any favor. you are making no sense at all.


#209    S2F

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:08 PM

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 15 January 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

If we have stealth technology that can evade radar, I think aliens are perfectly capable of evading radar if they choose. Here's another reason on why commercial air traffic controller might not be able to detect them.

Here's what it said, "Normally, in a planes formation of seven planes, only the lead plane would turn on is transponder so air traffic controllers could track it. If the lead plane's transponder was turned off, however, the seven planes could passed by without detection"

Another part said, "The Air Traffic System is designed to identify aircraft who want to be identified. I have been aware of instances where the transponder of a medium sized aircraft failed and we flat never saw the guy on the digitized radar. It is very easy to elude FAA radar..."

http://home.comcast..../UFO/azconc.htm

You realize of course that it depends on how the radar is configured right? Or do you think that enemy jets have their transponders turned on? Configured correctly, radar can get returns on a wide variety of airborne objects, even birds. Transponders were only invented as an assistance to commercial radar and are not required to detect objects.

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#210    SwampgasBalloonBoy

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:18 PM

View PostSlave2Fate, on 15 January 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

You realize of course that it depends on how the radar is configured right? Or do you think that enemy jets have their transponders turned on? Configured correctly, radar can get returns on a wide variety of airborne objects, even birds. Transponders were only invented as an assistance to commercial radar and are not required to detect objects.

I am just saying it's possible not to be detected. Do you think comercial radar is configured to detect anything other than commercial airlines?





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