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911 inside job - for what?


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#1201    psyche101

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:26 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 06 March 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

I just want to add that we cannot expect to find executives from Al-Jazeera and FOX News hamming it up arm-in-arm at the local pub singing; "14 Bottles of Beer on the Wall."


LOL, mate wouldn't that be a sight!! :w00t: :tu:

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#1202    psyche101

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:27 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 06 March 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

I think that is really callous and heartless with regards to the people who were survived by the victims. You really out to have concrete proof of such an accusation. I find t hard to believe that 5- forensic scientists were paid off.

Correction:

*50

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#1203    Babe Ruth

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:33 PM

View PostLiquid Gardens, on 05 March 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

Hi BR,

I'm not at all concerned with what can be 'proved', or probably more relevantly, what you or others accept as 'proof'; that is a huge rabbit-hole of a pointless conversation about semantics (although I may just be instead heading to a rabbit-hole of a conversation about what 'evidence' means).  The claim I'm disputing is 'zero evidence'; a missing flight and passengers is a pretty significant evidence point that is highly unusual and requires an explanation.  Nor am I concerned on this point about what is 'suspect' and is 'suggested', neither of those standards come close to removing this evidence as being supportive of Flight 77 impacting the Pentagon.  And more importantly, and maybe you or Q has addressed it in the past (not that your theory holds that these planes did not crash, Q), I struggle with what possibly there is to gain for our theoretical CTs by faking either of these crashes.  It certainly wouldn't be to save anybody's life, they showed wanton disregard for innocents at WTC I don't see why they'd blink at another few hundred casualties and whatever hit the Pentagon still caused as much damage as ramming the real plane into it.  What possible purpose is there to fake that 77 hit the Pentagon that is not accomplished by crashing the real 77 into the Pentagon?  On second thought, maybe that question is better applied to Flight 93, I think you are under the impression that maybe they had to fake it because Hani couldn't pull off the maneuver, which as we've all seen is highly debatable.  Regardless, the possible explanations of how it was done and the motivations for faking the Pentagon crash seem extremely convoluted and not very compelling.

The purpose of faking, scripting 77 impacting the Pentagon is to hide the fact that the damage at the Pentagon was deliberate, planned, and caused mostly by HE.  The purpose was to destroy the evidence being investigated by ONI in the part that was struck.  About 80% of the casualties there were in that office.

Dick Eastman, Tom Flocco, V.K. Durham, Karl Schwarz and E.P. Heidner detail that fairly well. www.doeda.com/y911.html


#1204    Babe Ruth

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:40 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 06 March 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

You investigate plane crashes?

My experience is to do with large scale construction, which often requires controlled demolition.



No? Who put the debris at Shanksville?

Who saw someone taking all this stuff out there and setting it alight? Even body parts were recovered, and pictures of the recovery are plentiful. I recall reading about a tooth in a tree even.

Where is the plane now?

What happened to the passengers? Many of whom left family behind? You do think it is not a tad insensitive to suggest that when people called from the plane, they were lying, staged to set up their loved ones, and are faking it on some island someplace? Daddy faked his death?

If nobody saw this, what did Linda Shepley see?



Yes, FAA and UAL were tracking different planes coded UA93. I am sure you have seen the case study.



Really, I seem to remember that when replication was attempted it failed 100% of the time, in every experiment. Also, notable chemist, Frédéric Henry-Couannier came to a very different conclusion and said the claims was baseless. The RJ Lee company also looked for thermite, and found nothing. LINK - WTC Dust Signature report. I know that when Harett and Jones put forth their claim, they compared the sudden energy spike of their burning chips with the spikes of known nanothermites, and found that their chips ignited at around 150° C. lower than the known nanothermites, and the energy release was off between their chips and the nanothermites by a factor of at least two. Yet they called this a match for nanothermite!

Your knowledge is incomplete, especially regarding the events at Shanksville.

No, I do not investigate plane crashes, but I've seen my share over the years, military and civilian type.

Wally Miller was the coroner at Shanksville, and beat the feds to the scene by maybe an hour or more.  Just enough time to have already told the media, (yes, it's recorded) that there was nothing there remotely resembling a 757 with passengers and bags.

Miller was eventually interviewed years later by Christopher Bollyn on another matter--the Dover AFB Mortuary case, which involved "remains" from Shanksville.  In the course of that interview Wally and a few other locals, with the luxury of hindsight, explained what really happened.

If you are interested in broadening your knowledge base, read Bollyn's book.


#1205    skyeagle409

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 06:26 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 06 March 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

The purpose of faking, scripting 77 impacting the Pentagon is to hide the fact that the damage at the Pentagon was deliberate, planned, and caused mostly by HE.  The purpose was to destroy the evidence being investigated by ONI in the part that was struck.  About 80% of the casualties there were in that office.

You can't destroy evidence inside the Pentagon with a B-757. Some folks I know were at the Pentagon when American 77 struck the building and one was the former commander of my Wing.

Edited by skyeagle409, 06 March 2013 - 06:44 PM.

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#1206    skyeagle409

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 06:41 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 06 March 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

No, I do not investigate plane crashes, but I've seen my share over the years, military and civilian type.

So have I.

Quote

Wally Miller was the coroner at Shanksville, and beat the feds to the scene by maybe an hour or more.  Just enough time to have already told the media, (yes, it's recorded) that there was nothing there remotely resembling a 757 with passengers and bags.

You seem to forget that United Airliners also confirmed the loss of United 93 near Shanksville and Wally Miller was not an employee of United Airlines. What Wally Miller has confirmed.



United Airlines has confirmed the loss of United 93.

Quote

United Airlines provides further update on UA Flights 93 and 175; sends family assistance teams to PA and NY


CHICAGO - United Airlines has provided the following additional information relating to UA Flights 93 and 175. Flight UA 93, a single aircraft, also operated as a code share flight with Air Canada under AC 4085. Flight UA 175, a single aircraft, also operated as a code-share flight with Air New Zealand under NZ 9051.Earlier today, United confirmed the following details:
  • UA 93, a Boeing 757 aircraft, departed from Newark, NJ, at 8:01 local time, bound for San Francisco, with 38 passengers onboard, two pilots, and five flight attendants. This aircraft crashed near Johnstown, PA.
  • UA 175, a Boeing 767 aircraft, departed from Boston at 7:58 local time, bound for Los Angeles, with 56 passengers onboard, two pilots, and seven flight attendants. United has confirmed the loss of this aircraft. Last radar contact with the aircraft was between Newark, NJ and Philadelphia, PA.
United is dispatching a team to Johnstown, PA as soon as possible, to assist in every way, with the investigation and to provide assistance, help, and support to family members. Based on information received from the authorities, United is also sending employees to the New York City area to assist, in every way it can, with this tragedy.

http://www.prnewswir...-154520735.html


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#1207    Babe Ruth

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 07:10 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 06 March 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

You can't destroy evidence inside the Pentagon with a B-757. Some folks I know were at the Pentagon when American 77 struck the building and one was the former commander of my Wing.

Finally we agree on something Sky!

No, you can't destroy evidence inside the Pentagon with a Boeing.  That's why HE was used.


#1208    skyeagle409

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 08:40 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 06 March 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

Finally we agree on something Sky!

No, you can't destroy evidence inside the Pentagon with a Boeing.  That's why HE was used.

Considering that remains of crew and passengers of American 77 were recovered at the Pentagon reconfirms the aircraft was American 77, not to mention that American Airlines confirmed the aircraft as American 77. Additionally, ACARS did not show that American 77 landed anywhere else.

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#1209    Scorpius

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:38 PM

http://911truth.org/
http://zen-haven.com...ourt-in-the-uk/
http://911truthnews....for-themselves/
http://911research.w...ce/missing.html
http://www.ae911truth.org/

One will have to review and form their own judgement based on the interpretations and counter claims, presented to us.  Some even presented to us from various educational backgrounds from architects to engineers provide quite compelling arguements to believe the unbelievable...

Edited by Scorpius, 06 March 2013 - 09:39 PM.

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#1210    frenat

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:56 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 06 March 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

The purpose of faking, scripting 77 impacting the Pentagon is to hide the fact that the damage at the Pentagon was deliberate, planned, and caused mostly by HE.  The purpose was to destroy the evidence being investigated by ONI in the part that was struck.  About 80% of the casualties there were in that office.

Dick Eastman, Tom Flocco, V.K. Durham, Karl Schwarz and E.P. Heidner detail that fairly well. www.doeda.com/y911.html

Too bad the government NEVER has backups!   :rolleyes:

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#1211    skyeagle409

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:15 AM

View PostScorpius, on 06 March 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

http://911truth.org/
http://zen-haven.com...ourt-in-the-uk/
http://911truthnews....for-themselves/
http://911research.w...ce/missing.html
http://www.ae911truth.org/

One will have to review and form their own judgement based on the interpretations and counter claims, presented to us.  Some even presented to us from various educational backgrounds from architects to engineers provide quite compelling arguements to believe the unbelievable...

Be careful of those truth websites because they are well-known for spewing disinformation and misinformation. They won't tell you that the majority of architects and civil engineers agree with the official story.

Let's take an example of what I am talking about. Conspiracist have claimed that squibs seen spewing from the WTC buildings was evidence of explosions, but were those squibs evidence of explosions?


Quote

SQUIBS: VISIBLE EXPLOSIONS

0:35:45
Let's look carefully at the collapse itself. Notice the puffs of concrete issuing from the sides of the building well ahead of the collapse wave. Called "squibs" in demolition language, these are actual explosives – charges firing visibly through the exterior as gravity pulls the building down.

http://911research.w...ries/index.html


Where did conspiracist think the massive volume of air was going to flow as each WTC building collapsed?

Check out the following video and notice a demolition process that does not use explosives yet you can see the same squibs of air flowing from those buildings as was the case when the WTC buildings collapsed and remember, no explosives are used.



In addition:

Quote


Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:14 AM
Posted Image

Towers Weakened by Planes; Brought Down by Fire

WASHINGTON, D.C., MAY 1, 2002
Analysis by a team of 25 of the nation's leading structural and fire protection engineers suggests that the World Trade Center Towers could have remained standing indefinitely if fire had not overwhelmed the weakened structures, according to a report presented today at a hearing of the House Science Committee. That finding is significant, said W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., team lead for the ASCE/FEMA Building Performance Study Team, because extreme events of this type, resulting in such substantial damage, are generally not considered in building design, and the fact that these structures were able to successfully withstand such damage is noteworthy.

Only a handful of architects and engineers question the NIST Report, but they have never come up with an alternative. Although at first blush it may seem impressive that these people don't believe the NIST Report, remember that there are 123,000 members of ASCE(American Society of Civil Engineers) who do not question the NIST Report. There are also 80,000 members of AIA(American Institute of Architects) who do not question the NIST Report.

http://911-engineers.blogspot.com/


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ARCHITECT Magazine
The Magzine of the American Institute of Architects

The boardroom at the Washington, D.C., headquarters of the American Institute of Architects is an impressive place: Beautiful concentric wooden desks, with microphones in front of every seat, encircle a small central dais, offering the impression that important discussions are had here. “It feels like the United Nations,” a guest recently commented.

This room recently served as a peculiar venue for the 23rd stop on the 30-city “world premiere tour” of AIA member Richard Gage’s new film 9/11: Explosive Evidence—Experts Speak Out: Final Edition. Since 2006, Gage has been traveling all over the world under the banner of his organization, Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth—an organization that has no affiliation with the AIA, express or otherwise—to preach the theory that the Twin Towers and 7 World Trade Center were actually brought down by explosives on September 11, 2001, and not the impact of two hijacked jetliners and the resulting fires and debris.

“I had to be dragged kicking and screaming into believing that our government and the Israeli government, the Israeli Mossad, could be responsible for the Twin Towers demolition,” one member of the DC chapter of 911truth.org declared from the AIA-emblazoned podium.


The accusations of Gage’s organization are the typical hodgepodge of pseudo-scientific claims. Along with other esoteric and debunked technical arguments, he says that melted steel was visible at the Ground Zero site proving that the fires burned too hot to have been caused by jet fuel; that because the buildings collapsed at “near free fall speed” there must have been a controlled demolition; and that traces of athermitereaction found in the World Trade Center debris proves that explosives were used.

All of Gage’s so-called evidence has been rebutted in peer-reviewed papers, by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, by the National Institute for Standards and Technology, by the American Society of Civil Engineers, by the 9/11 Commission Report, and, perhaps most memorably, by the 110-year-old engineering journal Popular Mechanics.

What is more interesting than these bizarre and debunked conspiracy theories is the way that Gage places his AIA membership front and center in his presentations. He seems to be attempting to cloak his organization in the officialdom of the venerable 155-year-old professional institution, even as AIA wants nothing to do with his organization. At the start of his latest film, he explains that he is “a licensed architect of over 20 years and member of the American Institute of Architects.”

Gage often seems to wield his AIA status in promoting his conspiracy theories. In making his case, he also regularly cites that more than 100 AIA members and at least six AIA Fellows have signed his petition calling for a new investigation. In total, Gage says that more than 1,700 of the petition’s roughly 16,000 signatures are from architects and engineers.

During the screening, Gage was at the very least intimating that his organization had been invited to AIA officially. “I can’t tell you how grateful we were to have been accepted to be here in the boardroom at the national headquarters,” Gage said. “We hope this is the beginning of a very productive relationship.”


Aside from Gage, though, there was not a single other architect in the room, much less an official from AIA, or even another member. The 80-strong crowd was made up largely of members of the local 9/11 Truth movement and other political activists.

http://www.architect...y-theory_2.aspx


Don't allow yourself to be duped by those 911 conspiracy websites as they duped so many others who were unaware of the rest of the story.

Edited by skyeagle409, 07 March 2013 - 02:51 AM.

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#1212    skyeagle409

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:17 AM

View Postfrenat, on 07 March 2013 - 12:56 AM, said:


Too bad the government NEVER has backups!   :rolleyes:

I guess 911 conspiracist believe that the U.S. government doesn't believe in backups.

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#1213    psyche101

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:07 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 06 March 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Your knowledge is incomplete, especially regarding the events at Shanksville.

Lets see about that shall we.

View PostBabe Ruth, on 06 March 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

No, I do not investigate plane crashes, but I've seen my share over the years, military and civilian type.

I used to see a Nurse who was on the recovery teams for Pan Am Flight 103. I have seen some pictures nobody else has on that, and my sister served for the RAAF, and was able to inform me intimately of the 2006 jet incident. I have not seen many, but what I have seen has been pretty graphic and quite some unadulterated detail. Fire destruction and explosion damage I have seen a plenty. One real bad one was at a local theme park, when the pyrotechnics shed at the back of a daily show went off with three men inside.

View PostBabe Ruth, on 06 March 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Wally Miller was the coroner at Shanksville, and beat the feds to the scene by maybe an hour or more.  Just enough time to have already told the media, (yes, it's recorded) that there was nothing there remotely resembling a 757 with passengers and bags.

Miller was eventually interviewed years later by Christopher Bollyn on another matter--the Dover AFB Mortuary case, which involved "remains" from Shanksville.  In the course of that interview Wally and a few other locals, with the luxury of hindsight, explained what really happened.

And Wally says the people were cremated in the explosion, and that he saw human samples. Ct'ers get all excited because he said he was surprised by the size of the impact zone. Many were because they had not seen a high speed impact zone. I have seen CCTV footage of a man caught in a switchboard explosion. After the smoke cleared, he just did not exist any more.

And Miller was indeed interviewed by Bollyn, that condescending weed bled Wally dry, and then dismissed him. It's always a big red flag when a person consults a professional and then cherry picks the answer without further input. This is what he had to say:

Wally is a nice fellow, but he thinks that everybody plays by the rules.  He doesn't think about destroying evidence, especially when that evidence is human remains.  He allowed the federal authorities to take control of the crime scene that was his responsibility and jurisdiction under the laws of the state of Pennsylvania.  I had read that human remains had been taken from Shanksville to Dover AFB for identifying.  I read that the identifying process at Dover was being done by several FBI agents working at the mortuary.  


What a tosspot. Wally had to deal with the grief of all those families, and is of the opinion that people were cremated due to the severity of the impact. That's his professional opinion that Bollyn has taken a piece of and re-written. Wally still gets calls from the victims relatives, and looks forward to the day his role in flight 93 ends. He also has set up memorials but he has to put up with persistant mongrels who do things like:

I called Miller sometime before May 2006 and asked him about the ethics of his having signed death certificates for bodies that had been identified by others at Dover AFB.  He got angry at me for having asked this direct question, but he cannot say that he has not heard that such things could have occurred.

I am not surprised he got angry at him. I cannot imagine why any person would want to speak to a jumped up upstart like Bollyn.

View PostBabe Ruth, on 06 March 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

If you are interested in broadening your knowledge base, read Bollyn's book.

Or I could just go have a beer at Ground Zero Lounge with all the drunk people on stage pretending they are important. There are many copies, rip offs and wannabe's. He is not the only one with outright nutso ideals like missiles being involved. No, I do not need to broaden my CT database. I do not consider that as actual knowledge. Because it is not. I know enough about this cretin without having to give him money or buy his book, belting out kooky claims that border on treason gets you noticed somewhat.

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Edited by psyche101, 07 March 2013 - 03:09 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#1214    psyche101

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:17 AM

View PostScorpius, on 06 March 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

http://911truth.org/
http://zen-haven.com...ourt-in-the-uk/
http://911truthnews....for-themselves/
http://911research.w...ce/missing.html
http://www.ae911truth.org/

One will have to review and form their own judgement based on the interpretations and counter claims, presented to us.  Some even presented to us from various educational backgrounds from architects to engineers provide quite compelling arguements to believe the unbelievable...

Do you have anything to discuss, this being a discussion forum and all, or do you just wish to post links to indicate you are a closet truther without a personal opinion?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#1215    psyche101

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:26 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 06 March 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

You can't destroy evidence inside the Pentagon with a B-757. Some folks I know were at the Pentagon when American 77 struck the building and one was the former commander of my Wing.

Indeed Sky, and a missile would not help either. I guess these guys have never heard of the digital age. They do not seem to realise this is how the Internet was born - not keeping all your sensitive data in one place.

I hope all of your compatriots made it out OK mate.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.





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