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WTC 911 EyeWitness~Hoboken


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#1051    Stundie

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:49 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 12 March 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Apparently you didn't, which was evident in what you had posted.
Well seeing as you can't point out what I misunderstood and the fact you would take great pleasure in pointing out what I misunderstood, I'm going to put this down to another one of what I will now call Skyeaglisms.

View Postskyeagle409, on 12 March 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

If the road is a dead-end, why continue?  Your post on Apollo has crash-landed on the launch pad because you did not pay attention to the details of what was written.
Again, seeing as you can't point out what I have not paid attention to and the fact you would take great pleasure in pointing out what I have  not paid attention to, this is going in with the rest of Skyeaglisms.

View Postskyeagle409, on 12 March 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

If you make the claim, then you have to produce the temperature data and source, otherwise, you have no case.
I never claimed that the temperatures were high or low enough?? It's your claim, I do not have to prove a negative seeing as you are the one who claimed they were not high enough, I do not have to provide proof they were high enough. lol

And as I have pointed out, the flaw in your argument is that there is no accurate data of the temperatures in the rubble other than the surface temperatures and estimates.

Therefore you fail and it doesn't matter how many times you spam the forum, the fact is you have no evidence that the people who claimed they saw molten steel at GZ are wrong.

Even though you keep bleating on about the temperatures while ignoring the obvious problems in that they are not an accurate reflection, or that they have to be metallurgist to recognise molten steel even though if they had claimed it was aluminium, a metallurgist wouldn't be required, or that you know better than those at GZ because you have deluded yourself that you outrank and out qualify professors, structural engineers and firefighters, even though you have the reading comprehension skills of a 5 year old...lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 12 March 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

If firefighters hosed down the molten metal, then the molten metal wasn't hidden deep within the rubble, but in plain sight where aerial sensors did not record temperatures high enough to melt steel, but high enough to melt aluminum.
Are you pretending to be stupid or are you the real deal?? lol

I do not know where to start with such stupidness...usually the beginning is a good place but it's a mess.

There is no ifs!!..."If firefighters hosed down the molten metal"...That is there job, it's what they are employed to do. Firefighters hosed down the rubble including molten metal which was determined by all who commented on the type of metal it was as steel, not aluminium...lol

Then..."then the molten metal wasn't hidden deep within the rubble,"How do you qualify such nonsense?? lol Not with evidence that is for sure, so it must be down to your imagination again, another example of a Skyeaglism.

Quote

“In his reporting for ‘American Ground,’ Langewiesche explored the shifting debris with construction workers and engineers, documenting the crises and questions as they arose. He crawled through ‘the pile’ with survey parties and descended deep below street level to areas where underground fires still burned and steel flowed in molten streams.”
- http://www.theatlant.../200207/77nwash (

Bronx firefighter and recovery worker Joe “Toolie” O’Toole remembered “seeing a crane lift a steel beam vertically from deep within the catacombs of Ground Zero. ‘It was dripping from the molten steel,’ he said.” (Jennifer Lin, “Recovery Worker Reflects On Months Spent At Ground Zero,” Knight Ridder Newspapers, May 29, 2002.  http://911research.w...veryworker.html

Then you qualify all your wrongness with this little beauty of nonsense.."but in plain sight where aerial sensors did not record temperatures high enough to melt steel, but high enough to melt aluminum.

Even though...

Quote

“Thermal measurements taken by helicopter each day showed underground temperatures ranging from 400ºF to more than 2,800ºF.” (Jeffrey W. Vincoli, Norman H. Black and Stewart C. Burkhammer, “SH&E at Ground Zero“)

http://www.youtube.c...zSCt_cg#t=3m23s
Listen to what this firefighter has to say after 8 weeks and his estimate


View Postskyeagle409, on 12 March 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

You don't seem to understand that firefighters are not metallurgist.
Here we go again... :rolleyes: ....lol

Lets go back to 21st Feb 2013... and laugh an point at you as to why you are regurgitating strawman arguments you made over 3 weeks ago!! :w00t:
Skyeagle said "Firefighters are not metallurgist." <---http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=241014&st=885#entry4672777

Stundie replied "And I never said they were....lol" <---http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=241014&st=885#entry4672844

Skyeagle said "You implied they were!" <---http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=241014&st=885#entry4672851

Stundie replied "No I never...lol What I have implied is that the firefighters are more than capable of identifying the molten metal cause they would be the ones cooling it down and part of being a firefighter is understanding the source of fires or in this case, the molten metal which they said was steel...." <---http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=241014&st=885#entry4672853

Skyeagle said "Yes you did!!  After all, we can take a look back at your claims regarding what firefighters say they saw"<---http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=241014&st=885#entry4672871

Stundie said "Please take a look at what the firefighter said they saw. And show me the quote where I implied firefighters are metallurgists?? file:///C:Users100216~1AppDataLocalTempmsohtmlclip11clip_image002.pngCause I think evidently, that you are seeing things which don't exist...lol" <---http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=241014&st=885#entry4680540

Skyeagle said "They are not metallurgist, which once again brings us back to my original  comment about firefighters."<---http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=241014&st=900#entry4680637

Stundie said "WOW!! Another excellent pantomime debunking of your pathetic pantomime strawman....lol...It bring us back to your fantasies again.....lol I think you will find at no point do I claim that fire fighters are metallurgist and your debunking is absurd and delusional." <---http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=241014&st=915#entry4680951

Skyeagle said "I am glad that you agree that the firefighters were not metallurgist, because it proves my point they were not in a position to differentiate between molten steel and molten aluminum, hence they were in error when they said that they saw molten steel when in fact, they saw no such thing." <---http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=241014&st=915#entry4680960

Stundie said "Why are you glad I agree that firefighters were not metallurigsts when I have never said or implied it, when it is obvious to anyone that fire fighters fight fires and metallurgiusts examine metals, proving that you are having this argument not with me, but the voices in your head which you are projecting onto me." <---http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=241014&st=915#entry4680999

Seriously, have you been working with too much mercury?? :w00t:

I am struggling to believe that anyone could possibly have a serious conversation with you when you come out with such deluded claptrap, strawmen and arguments created from your own imagination, which you continue to regurgitate weeks later even though that argument was put to bed weeks ago...lol

Its truly pathetic that the panto debunkers debate is reduced to this BS and it amaze me that even though you seem to break forum rules, that

View Postskyeagle409, on 12 March 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

What did Mr. Robertson say about his lack of knowledge to identify molten metal?
He also said he doesn't said he doesn't remember saying it, which is lucky for us seeing as we have a video of him actually saying this.

View Postskyeagle409, on 12 March 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

You should remember him, you brought him up into the argument without reading the rest of the story.
Lets for a moment ignore Mr Robertsons quote, which should be a doddle for someone like you. You still have many more eyewitnesses who claimed they saw it to debunk and you are doing a pathetic job of debunking them with your pantomime...lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 12 March 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

The firefighter said the temperature at the core of the rubble was only 2000 degrees, not enough to melt steel.
He doesn't specify if it 2000 degrees Celsius or Fahrenheit does he....lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 12 March 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

I deal in facts and evidence, not fantasy.
Utter nonsense as indicated above.

You wouldn't know facts if they walked up to you and slapped you in the face screaming "I am the facts!"

View Postskyeagle409, on 12 March 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

To underline that point, present to us all, the temperature data that reached the melting point of steel.
I do not need to present it because as the only thing I have claimed is that there are no accurate recordings of the temperatures because all the readings we have show the surface temperatures and estimate by people at GZ.

View Postskyeagle409, on 12 March 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Present to us, a recovered object capable of producing molten steel during and after the collapse of the WTC buildings; torches and wanes used by clean-up crews at ground zero do not count.
I do not need to source it as I do notknow, but just because I do not know, doesn't mean there was no molten steel.

As I said previously, I suppose FEMA didn't find vaporised steel because they don't know the source either?? :blink: lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 12 March 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Well, well, well. Now, you know why structural engineers and investigators who've examined the WTC steel did not agree with those who've claimed that molten steel was found at ground zero.
Probably because they didn't examine all of the steel and were not shown or didn't find any molten steel.

Just because they didn't find any, does not mean that none existed....lol

I think this is without a doubt, your poorest post so far..... :w00t:

Edited by Stundie, 13 March 2013 - 02:51 PM.

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#1052    Stundie

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:55 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 12 March 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

Yet, you said that you were there and I have shown that even though firefighters were at ground zero, they can misidentify molten metal as well.
No you haven't....lol

Another Skyeaglism....lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 12 March 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

Stundie has said that the firefighters were there at ground zero and I wasn't, which is why I have used to laws of physics, temperature data, knowledge and experience, and other evidence to backup my claim.
You have not used anything other than your imagination as to why those at GZ were wrong. lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 12 March 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

Looking in another direction,  a firefighter later admitted the explosions they heard in the basement were attributed to falling elevators.
And that proves that all of those at GZ who claimed they saw molten steel are wrong?? :blink: lol

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#1053    skyeagle409

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:40 PM

View PostStundie, on 13 March 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Well seeing as you can't point out what I misunderstood and the fact you would take great pleasure in pointing out what I misunderstood, I'm going to put this down to another one of what I will now call Skyeaglisms.

Read what was written, because you failed to understand what I wrote.

Quote


And as I have pointed out, the flaw in your argument is that there is no accurate data of the temperatures in the rubble other than the surface temperatures and estimates.

You either produce evidence of temperatures high enough to melt steel at ground zero, othewise or you have no case.

Quote

Therefore you fail and it doesn't matter how many times you spam the forum, the fact is you have no evidence that the people who claimed they saw molten steel at GZ are wrong.

Of course those who've claimed they saw pools of molten steel were wrong. Structural engineers and investigators at ground zero have stated for the record they found no evidence of molten steel, and once again, temperature readings taken of ground zero backs them up. Temperatures were too low to melt steel and there was nothing at ground zero to produce pools of molten steel. You place too much emphasis on firefighters who were not  trained to identify molten metal and remember, firefighters also claimed to have heard explosions which were later attributed to falling elevators.

I have presented data evidence of temperatures high enough to melt aluminum at ground zero but too low to melt steel and yet, you have failed to refute those facts with evidence and instead, you relied on unreliable witnesses who have no training nor knowledge on metal indentification.

Quote

I said previously, I suppose FEMA didn't find vaporised steel because they don't know the source either??

There is no "suppose" about it and it shows that you are not very sure of yourself.

Edited by skyeagle409, 13 March 2013 - 05:45 PM.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#1054    skyeagle409

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:47 PM

View PostStundie, on 13 March 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

No you haven't....lol

On the contrary, nothing was ever recovered at ground zero that could have produced molten steel and once again, official temperature readings were far too low to melt steel.

Quote

DEBUNKING MOLTEN METAL

1. There has been no evidence of molten metal found at the WTC complex. The EVIDENCE actually contradicts the possibility of molten metal (of any significant quantity) during and after the destruction of the WTC, from 9/11 onward.

2. Not ONE image or video exists of large pools of molten steel.

3. This is an image showing the basement of WTC 2:http://drjudywood.co...3946_hole_s.jpg There is no molten metal.

4. The US government thermal map images are without a doubt doctored. http://drjudywood.co...ots-compare.jpg Zone F is the same area as thisempty, damp hole in a FEMA picture filed 9/18/01.http://drjudywood.co...3946_hole_s.jpg Where's the molten metal?

5. The Stairwell B survivors completely contradict claims of molten steel.http://www.youtube.c...h?v=LvdNHaOBGk4 In Stairwell B on the 3rd floor of the North Tower, 16 people lived amid the avalanche of concrete and steel.  If thermite and molten metal were dropping down, they wouldn't be alive. Their testimony is of bits of dust debris falling around them. No heat, no explosions and no bright white flashes as would be expected if thermite was used. After the towers “collapsed” or more accurately, turned to dust, the survivors found themselves looking up at blue sky.Not surrounded by molten metal.

6. There were no steam explosions when rain fell on the area where molten metal was supposed to have been in the immediate period following the destruction of the WTC. Enormous amounts of water were hosed on Ground Zero, if there had been molten metal, there should have been a steam explosion with all of this water: http://drjudywood.co...C14401_lake.jpghttp://drjudywood.co...C14164_lake.jpg  Would water (either fire hose or rain) have coexisted with molten metal? Answer: No. There would have been multiple steam explosions. This fact completely disproves claims of pools of molten steel. When liquid water comes in contact with a very hot substance (such as lava, or molten metal) it can flash into steam very quickly; this is called a steam explosion. Such an explosion was probably responsible for much of the damage in the Chernobyl accident and for many so-called 'foundry accidents'. http://drjudywood.co...irt4.html#steam

7. Thousands of tons of paper stored in the WTC floated to the ground unburned. After the destruction occurred the paper was left in the dust.

8. The large pieces of debris, likened to meteorites that are alleged to be fused molten steel by Steven Jones contain papers with legible type.

9. If molten metal existed at Ground Zero, would the hydraulics on the cleanup trucks have worked? Answer: No. Mechanical Engineering handbooks show the temperature of hydraulics to fail at a fraction of the temperature of molten metal.

10. If workers' boots melted because the ground was so hot, would their feet have survived? Answer: No. If the temperature was hot enough to melt the firefighters’ boots, their feet would have been incinerated.

11. Much of the evidence for molten metal at Ground Zero seems to come from eyewitnesses who are on government payrolls rather than physical evidence. This is not reliable.


12. Steven E. Jones knowingly and deliberately included a doctored image in his 2006 9/11 report with the caption “Workers evidently peering into the hot “core” under the WTC rubble” presenting it as evidence of molten steel:

Steven Jones also used this image as evidence of molten steel:

Posted Image


Steven Jones fails to mention that NIST admitted doctoring the image. In addition, Jones cropped the photo and removed NIST’s caption that read “The intensity levels have been adjusted.” Jones used the colors in the photo for scientific analysis, yet NIST admitted adjusting the intensity levels. Is this good science? On top of that, why did Jones hide the fact that it was doctored?

http://beforeitsnews...al-2439630.html

Now, where is your evidence that pools of molten steel was discovered at ground zero and understand that an unreliable witnesses account is zero evidence.

Edited by skyeagle409, 13 March 2013 - 06:10 PM.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#1055    Stundie

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 01:43 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 13 March 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

Read what was written, because you failed to understand what I wrote.
I've read what you have written but nothing you post makes sense.

View Postskyeagle409, on 13 March 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

You either produce evidence of temperatures high enough to melt steel at ground zero, othewise or you have no case.
Why do I need to prove temperatures were high enough to melt steel?? :blink: You are the one who claimed they were not hot enough...lol It's your claim and I knew you would fail and spam the forum. My only claim is that we do not know the temperatures within the rubble because all of the temperatures recorded are either surface temperatures and estimates made by people at GZ.

Therefore your claim that the fires were not hot enough is not backed up by evidence, unless you think surface temperatures and estimates are evidence...lol

So I have no case to answer, your debunking fails because everything you provided doesn't disprove the existence of molten steel...lol

Why don't you continue on your path of fail by claiming that I think Firefighters are Metallugist again. lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 13 March 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

Of course those who've claimed they saw pools of molten steel were wrong.
Of course, internet warriors who were not at GZ who claim the people didn't see molten steel are wrong.

View Postskyeagle409, on 13 March 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

Structural engineers and investigators at ground zero have stated for the record they found no evidence of molten steel, and once again, temperature readings taken of ground zero backs them up.
Who didn't examine every single piece of steel and the temperatures and the temperature reading do not back them up seeing as they are not accurate readings of the rubble.

View Postskyeagle409, on 13 March 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

Temperatures were too low to melt steel and there was nothing at ground zero to produce pools of molten steel.
No they were not...lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 13 March 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

You place too much emphasis on firefighters who were not  trained to identify molten metal and remember, firefighters also claimed to have heard explosions which were later attributed to falling elevators.
You place too much emphasis on surface temperature readings and estimates and the fact you seem to have fooled yourself that only a metallurgist knows what molten steel looks like, yet one is not needed to identify molten aluminium, which no one reported. lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 13 March 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

I have presented data evidence of temperatures high enough to melt aluminum at ground zero but too low to melt steel and yet, you have failed to refute those facts with evidence and instead, you relied on unreliable witnesses who have no training nor knowledge on metal indentification.
You have presented data which doesn't back your claims up, you keep going about being an expert to identify molten steel yet it has been established that no expertise is required.

View Postskyeagle409, on 13 March 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

There is no "suppose" about it and it shows that you are not very sure of yourself.
So if FEMA witnessed vaporised molten steel and do not know the source that caused it, does that mean it never existed and FEMA are wrong?? lol

Of course not, you would sound more mongier than you truly are...lol

So why do you insist on a source for the molten steel and if it can't be identified, then molten steel did not exist by your logic?

Shall we put this in the every growing catalogue of Skyeaglisms??......lol In the hypocrite subsection...lol

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#1056    Stundie

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 01:49 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 13 March 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

On the contrary, nothing was ever recovered at ground zero that could have produced molten steel and once again, official temperature readings were far too low to melt steel.
Sorry but there are plenty of people who witnessed it and not a single person refers to it as molten aluminium.

The official temperatures as you call them are not official or even accurate....lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 13 March 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

Now, where is your evidence that pools of molten steel was discovered at ground zero and understand that an unreliable witnesses account is zero evidence.
I'm not here to prove a negative.

I tell you what, you go and find the quote where I claimed the fires in the rubble were hot enough because you have deluded yourself and imagined I have claimed this, just like you imagined and claimed I said firefighters were metallurgist which you have quickly ignored because it highlights how dumbass your arguments and points are...lol

Eyewitness say they saw molten steel, Skyeagle says they are wrong based on surface temps and estimates and that they are mistaken because according to your logic, only a metallurgist is capable of identifying molten steel.

Its not debunking, it's delusional.........lol

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#1057    skyeagle409

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:31 PM

View PostStundie, on 14 March 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

I've read what you have written but nothing you post makes sense.

It would have if you were paying attention. Where is your evidence that temperatures were high enough to melt steel? Where is your evidence that molten steel was seen when structural engineers and investigators at ground zero stated for the record they saw no evidence of molten steel.?

Quote

Why do I need to prove temperatures were high enough to melt steel??

You say there was molten steel at ground zero so all I am asking is show us the money.

Quote

You are the one who claimed they were not hot enough..

To prove my point that some firefighters have said was molten steel, could not have been molten steel especially when investigators have said they found no such evidence.

Quote

It's your claim and I knew you would fail and spam the forum.

How amusing you would say such a thing considering that I have provided facts, evidence, investigator and engineer reports and infrared data images proving my point, not yours.

Quote

My only claim is that we do not know the temperatures within the rubble...

You haven't been paying any attention. A firefighter said the temperature at the core was near 2000 degrees, which is not even close to the temperature needed to melt steel.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#1058    skyeagle409

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:45 PM

View PostStundie, on 14 March 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

Sorry but there are plenty of people who witnessed it and not a single person refers to it as molten aluminium.

Apparently, you haven't been paying attention at all. Check out post 1029.

Quote

Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:37 AM
Report chronicles the final moments of WTC tragedy
NY TIMES NEWS SERVICE , NEW YORK

But the fires continued to burn. Black smoke poured from shattered windows on floor after floor, fresh oxygen sucked in from the gaping holes caused by the impacts. In the northeast corner of the building's 80th floor, where office furniture had been shoved by the plane, the fire burned so hot that a stream of molten metal began to pour over the side like a flaming waterfall.

The apparent source of this waterfall: molten aluminum from the airliner's wings and fuselage, which had also piled up in that corner. Within minutes, portions of the 80th floor began to give way, as evidenced by horizontal lines of dust blowing out of the side of the building. Seconds later, near the heavily damaged southeasterly portion of this same floor, close to where the aircraft had entered, exterior columns began to buckle.

Fifty-six minutes and 10 seconds after it was hit, the top of the south building tilted horribly, to the east and then to the south, and initiated the collapse of the entire tower, floor upon floor.

http://www.taipeitim.../03/30/129774/4


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"ABC News reported that, "the temperature at the core of "the pile," is near 2000 degrees Fahrenheit, according to fire officials, who add that the fires are too deep for firefighters to get to."
__________________________________________________________________________________

...It was at least that hot at points within the pile that were away from the hottest zones. William Langewiesche, the only journalist who was allowed to go with the engineers in their explorations beneath the debris, writes in “American Ground: Un-building the World Trade Center” of a subterranean parking lot:

Along the north side, where the basement structure remained strong and intact (and was ulti-mately preserved), the fire had been so intense in places that it had consumed the tires and interiors, and had left hulks sitting on axles above hardened pools of aluminum wheels.

Quote

The official temperatures as you call them are not official or even accurate...

Prove it to us all!

Quote

I tell you what, you go and find the quote where I claimed the fires in the rubble were hot enough because you have deluded yourself and imagined I have claimed this, just like you imagined and claimed I said firefighters were metallurgist which you have quickly ignored because it highlights how dumbass your arguments and points are...

They are not metallurgist.

Quote

Eyewitness say they saw molten steel,

Tell us, how can you tell a pool of molten metal is steel? We aready saw photos of molten aluminum.

Posted Image




And remember this:

"NIST investigators and experts from the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) and the Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEONY) – who inspected the WTC steel at the WTC site and the salvage yards – found no evidence that would support the melting of steel in a jet-fuel ignited fire in the towers prior to collapse."

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#1059    Stundie

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:44 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 14 March 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

It would have if you were paying attention.
Another Skyeaglism....lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 14 March 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

Where is your evidence that temperatures were high enough to melt steel?
Where di I claim that the temperatures were high enough to melt steel?? :blink:

Another classic Skyeaglism...lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 14 March 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

Where is your evidence that molten steel was seen when structural engineers and investigators at ground zero stated for the record they saw no evidence of molten steel.?
By the umpteen other eyewitnesses which contradict those of the NIST and ASCE who didn't examine every piece of steel...lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 14 March 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

You say there was molten steel at ground zero so all I am asking is show us the money.
I don't say there was, people who there say it. Seeing as you can't differentiate or understand that I wasn't at GZ, so I can't show you the money.

However, I'm still waiting for the money or evidence for this mythical motel aluminium that nobody at GZ has mentioned...lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 14 March 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

To prove my point that some firefighters have said was molten steel, could not have been molten steel especially when investigators have said they found no such evidence.
What a load of tosh!! Its not just fire fighters, structural engineers, ironworkers, health and safety inspectors and a load of other professions who said they saw molten steel.

Only a moron would suggest that you need to be a metallurgist to determine what the molten metal was seeing as it was being cooled down to enable to be clearly identified...lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 14 March 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

How amusing you would say such a thing considering that I have provided facts, evidence, investigator and engineer reports and infrared data images proving my point, not yours.
Surface temperatures and estimates are not evidence of the temperatures within the rubble...lol

Not sure why you fail to understand that are no accurate readings, meaning your claim that the temperatures were not high enough is bunk...lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 14 March 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

You haven't been paying any attention. A firefighter said the temperature at the core was near 2000 degrees, which is not even close to the temperature needed to melt steel.
And you haver not being paying attention to the fact he doesn't state whether it is in Fahrenheit or Celsius. :blink:

Which makes your claim bunk and besides, there are those who have estimated the temps to be higher than the melting point of steel...lol

Another pointless post of circular logic, denial and ignorance...lol

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#1060    Stundie

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:59 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 14 March 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

Apparently, you haven't been paying attention at all. Check out post 1029.
JESUS! Are you pretending to be dumb cause I think this can't be an act any more.

Was this molten aluminium in the rubble?? And was the person who identified a metallugist, cause if not, then I'm not listening as he is not qualified to make that judgement according to your logic...lol

I love the double standards, this fire-fighter is capable and qualified to detect molten aluminium, but if he said it was steel, I'm sure you would be quick to dismiss him as someone unqualified.

Its pathetic but hilarious watch you fail and get caught with your pants down...lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 14 March 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

Prove it to us all!
Well the fact you can't show us an accurate temperature or a quote without some thing like "...near 2000 degrees!" or "about 2000 degrees!"...lol

Then you post this quote...lol

"ABC News reported that, "the temperature at the core of "the pile," is near 2000 degrees Fahrenheit, according to fire officials, who add that the fires are too deep for firefighters to get to."

How do you get accurate temperatures of the core, when the firefighters say that the fires are too deep to get to...lol

And I love how you think that estimate and guesses are accurate temperature readings. :w00t:

View Postskyeagle409, on 14 March 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

They are not metallurgist.
Really and here is me thinking that firefighters were actually world leading experts in metallurgy and that not even a professor of metallurgy don't have there expertise. lol

You will probably miss the sarcastic tone of that response for the pathetic strawman that you have imagined...lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 14 March 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

Tell us, how can you tell a pool of molten metal is steel? We aready saw photos of molten aluminum.

Posted Image

Sorry but you are not a metallurgist...failed!!

View Postskyeagle409, on 14 March 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

And remember this:

"NIST investigators and experts from the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) and the Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEONY) – who inspected the WTC steel at the WTC site and the salvage yards – found no evidence that would support the melting of steel in a jet-fuel ignited fire in the towers prior to collapse."
Yes I remember this, but do you remember all of these people.....

“In the first few weeks, sometimes when a worker would pull a steel beam from the wreckage, the end of the beam would be dripping molten steel,” said Greg Fuchek, vice president of sales for LinksPoint Inc.

Bronx firefighter and recovery worker Joe “Toolie” O’Toole remembered “seeing a crane lift a steel beam vertically from deep within the catacombs of Ground Zero. ‘It was dripping from the molten steel,’ he said.” (Jennifer Lin, “Recovery Worker Reflects On Months Spent At Ground Zero,” Knight Ridder Newspapers, May 29, 2002.

“‘Fires are still actively burning and the smoke is very intense,’ reports Alison Geyh, PhD. ‘In some pockets now being uncovered, they are finding molten steel.’” Rod Graham, “Mobilizing Public Health,” Johns Hopkins Public Health Magazine, Late Fall, 2001.

Firefighter Captain Philip Ruvolo testified to the presence of molten steel on camera. “You’d get down below and you’d see molten steel– molten steel running down the channelways, like you were in a foundry– like lava.” His FDNY brothers agreed with his observation.

“Vance Deisingnore, OSHA Officer at WTC, reported the following to Jim McKay, Post-Gazette Staff Writer, on September 11, 2002 ‘a fire truck 10 feet below the ground that was still burning two weeks after the Tower collapsed, its metal so hot that it looked like a vat of molten steel.’”

Fire Department Chief Mike Donoho of Texas Task Force 1 Urban Search and Rescue described the scope of the destruction, ‘Everything had its own look. In the area surrounding what was the two twin towers, there were several buildings still standing that were burned from top to bottom, and some of them were damaged by the collapse. But the two towers — they were 110-story buildings. And there was nothing that you could put your hands on that resembled anything that would tell you this once was two 110-story office buildings. What you had were large columns of steel that were just stuck into massive amounts of molten steel and other metals, that had just fused together from the heat and bonded together from the strength of the collapse. We dug and we dug and we dug, and we cut and we cut and we cut, and we did not see anything that resembled any type of furniture, any type of personal belongings. We found some pieces of things like a telephone, things like that. I think we found credit cards a few times, and we found a couple of stuffed animals. But you would expect to see, like, a bunch of desks, a bunch of chairs. The only way I can explain it is, if you take a car and put it in one of those machines where they crush it and make it look like a cube, and you can’t recognize what it is, that’s what the whole area looked like. It looked like a massive, molten mess that had been fused together, like a car that had been cubed and crushed. With all that heavy, heavy stuff, there were wires, rebar, concrete. Most of it was just steel. A lot of what we were walking on was just molten steel.’

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#1061    skyeagle409

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:05 PM

View PostStundie, on 14 March 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

Another Skyeaglism....

Facts, all facts!! To underline point, where's your evidence that refutes what I have presented? Until you do so, you have no case.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#1062    skyeagle409

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:08 PM

View PostStundie, on 14 March 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

JESUS! Are you pretending to be dumb cause I think this can't be an act any more.

Considering that you have failed to refute my presentation, what more can I say?

Quote

Was this molten aluminium in the rubble??

Yes! Which would have been evident considering the amount of molten aluminum seen flowing from WTC2.

Quote

“Vance Deisingnore, OSHA Officer at WTC, reported the following to Jim McKay, Post-Gazette Staff Writer, on September 11, 2002 ‘a fire truck 10 feet below the ground that was still burning two weeks after the Tower collapsed, its metal so hot that it looked like a vat of molten steel.’”
]

He said: "LOOKED like a vat of molten steel," which by no means implied that it was molten steel. You are not paying attention to details.

Quote


How do you get accurate temperatures of the core, when the firefighters say that the fires are too deep to get to


Where did you get the idea that temperatures were high enough to melt steel when recorded temperature data depicted no such thing?

Quote

Sorry but you are not a metallurgist...failed!!

On the contrary, knowledge of metals was a specialty of mine I've used for decades. Now, where's your evidence that refutes my presentation?

Edited by skyeagle409, 14 March 2013 - 06:12 PM.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#1063    Stundie

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:09 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 14 March 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

Facts, all facts!! To underline point, where's your evidence that refutes what I have presented? Until you do so, you have no case.
There is nothing to refute....lol You have foolishly assumed that what you have posted is evidence which supports your position when it doesn't.

However, due your Skyeaglisms, you failed to notice...lol

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#1064    Stundie

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:12 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 14 March 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Considering that you have failed to refute my presentation, what more can I say?
There is nothing to refute other than your denial and ignorance. lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 14 March 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Yes! Which would have been evident considering the amount of molten aluminum seen flowing from WTC2.
Sorry but I'm using a Skyeaglism and I'm sorry but only a metallurgist is capable of identifying the molten metal, so the person is not qualified.

View Postskyeagle409, on 14 March 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

He said: "LOOKED like a vat of molten steel," which by no means implied that it was molten steel. You are not paying attention to details.
But he never said it looked like a vat of molten aluminium did he? lol

And he was probably right considering that everyone else who identified it said it was steel...lol

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#1065    skyeagle409

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:13 PM

View PostStundie, on 14 March 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

There is nothing to refute other than your denial and ignorance.

In other words, you have admitted to complete faliure to refuting what has been presented.

Edited by skyeagle409, 14 March 2013 - 06:17 PM.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX