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WTC 911 EyeWitness~Hoboken


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#1711    Q24

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 05:11 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 23 May 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

Nothing of substance, really!!

It is apparent that someone hasn’t done their homework because I have pointed out that thermite does not cause explosions so you have allowed yourself to be misled by misinformation and disinformation if you believe explosions should be present immediately preceding collapse.


View Postskyeagle409, on 23 May 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

Hearing what sounded like explosions doesn't mean that explosives were involved. You should have known that by now.Remember, firefighters and other later attributed those sounds to other things.

Apparently you are unaware that firefighters attributed the explosions to secondary devices on 9/11.


View Postskyeagle409, on 23 May 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

I guess you missed this.:

No I didn’t.

You missed this: -

Quote

Conclusions
The two questions with which I began my research have now been answered:

(1) Griffin’s 31 witnesses to explosions in the FDNY oral histories are a subset of a much larger body of witnesses, which I have estimated as having 118 members.
(2) Support for non-explosive collapse is present in this material but is scarce. I have found ten witnesses.

I do not know whether the FDNY witnesses constitute a representative sample of 9/11 witnesses, but it is possible that they do. Certainly, there is no lack of testimony to explosions from those outside the FDNY,[38] and I see no obvious reason why firefighters and medics would be more prone than others to feel that they were witnessing explosions. If they constitute a representative sample, then a minimum of 23% of all witnesses to the Towers’ collapses appear to have perceived, or thought they perceived, explosions that brought down the Towers.

The implications of this for our understanding of September 11, 2001 are very, very serious.

http://www.journalof...TradeCenter.pdf

Now what have I said about thermite?

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#1712    skyeagle409

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 05:11 AM

View PostQ24, on 23 May 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

No fire weakened structure was found at the WTC and did you ever wonder why fire did not demolish the WTC buildings?

Are you implying that fire did not do this?



Quote

The reason is because the collapses were due to thermite which you can see in my previous posts.

False! Not one structural column was found that had thermite cuts.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#1713    Q24

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 05:13 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 23 May 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

No there wasn't. Only the components, which had nothing to do with thermite. This is another hint that fire was responsible for the collapse of the WTC buildings..

False!!  You forgot the other evidence.  And another clue that you missed is here: -

Posted Image

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#1714    Q24

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 05:15 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 23 May 2013 - 05:11 AM, said:

Are you implying that fire did not do this?


False! Not one structural column was found that had thermite cuts.

False!!  Fire did not do that because no steel samples analysed showed fire weakening, which is another clue you should have noted to the presence of thermite.

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#1715    Q24

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 05:17 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 23 May 2013 - 05:11 AM, said:

Are you implying that fire did not do this?


False! Not one structural column was found that had thermite cuts.

False!!



Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#1716    skyeagle409

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 05:23 AM

View PostQ24, on 23 May 2013 - 05:11 AM, said:

It is apparent that someone hasn’t done their homework because I have pointed out that thermite does not cause explosions so you have allowed yourself to be misled by misinformation and disinformation if you believe explosions should be present immediately preceding collapse.

Apparently you are unaware that firefighters attributed the explosions to secondary devices on 9/11.

Let's take another look.

Quote

The Elevator Man's Tale

We heard the explosion and within a matter of seconds after that impact, I heard – and as well as everybody else heard – this noise, this increasing sound of wind. And it was getting louder and louder. It was like a bomb, not quite the sound of a bomb coming down from a bomber. It was a sound of wind increasing, a whistling sound, increasing in sound.

What we heard was 6 and 7 car free-falling from the 107th floor and they impacted the basement at B-2 Level. And that’s the explosion that filled the lobby within a matter of two or three seconds, engulfed the lobby in dust, smoke.

http://www.thrnewmed...ember/jones.htm

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Excerpts from: "8 Hurt as Trade Center Elevator Rams Ceiling" by Dan Kadison, Adam Miller, Erika Martinez and Cathy Burke,New York Post, August 12, 2000, p.4.

The express elevator to the Sky Lobby at the World Trade Center roared 24 feet past its stop and slammed into a ceiling 960 feet above ground yesterday, injuring eight of 12 people trapped inside.
The trapped passengers - who were stuck in Elevator No. 20 about 15 feet above the 78th floor at Two World Trade Center - had to be escorted to safety in a heart-stopping operation conducted from the roof of a second, adjacent elevator.

"We didn't know if we would get out alive," Queens resident Richard Gallo, an electrical engineer at the building, told his wife, Helen. "Everyone was screaming. There was blood all over the place. We were really scared that the elevator was going to plunge to the ground...." "I've been riding the elevator for years" [added a co-worker]. "Occasionally they slip, it's not something you can focus on." Others [present] described the crash as sounding like a horrendous "boom."  People "thought it was a bomb," said Kim Dunlap, a receptionist on the 100th floor. It rocked the building.

There's never a dull moment at the World Trade Center."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As soon as we arrived, 84, a massive explosion goes off, and at this point we didn't know what it was. We thought it was a secondary explosion. We didn't know that it was a second plane. In fact, I didn't know there was a second plane until much later in the evening.

http://www.npr.org/d...rds/delgado.pdf

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We figured by the time we got to the fifth or sixth floor, that’s when the south tower was hit. I had no idea the south tower was hit, and I don’t think that Chief Jonas – Captain Jonas at the time – or Lieutenant Foti knew at that point either. I remember the whole north tower literally vibrated. The only way I can explain it is if you were at the edge of a subway platform and the train was coming in, you felt that wind and the sound, but with an added effect like the floor vibrated. Everybody just cringed and really was not sure what was going on. I just assumed that it was something above us.
I had no idea that the south tower was hit.

http://www.firehouse.../gz/blaich.html

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"As we got near the top of the escalator that brings you to ground level from five floors below, we heard what sounded like a bomb going off," Seebode said. "It was the second plane hitting World Trade Center."

http://www.hq.usace....v01/story18.htm

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The following is an example of how 911 Truthers have been taken for a ride.

Louie Cacchioli, 51, is a firefighter assigned to Engine 47 in Harlem.

We were the first ones in the second tower after the plane struck. I was taking firefighters up in the elevator to the 24th floor to get in position to evacuate workers. On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there was bombs set in the building.

http://prisonplanet....e_cacchioli.htm

Now, let's read the rest of the story.

Why did Louie Cacchioli become upset?

Cacchioli was upset that People Magazine misquoted him, saying "there were bombs" in the building when all he said was he heard "what sounded like bombs" without having definitive proof bombs were actually detonated.

http://www.arcticbea...9-Jul-2005.html


Now, further accounts of what they thought, were explosions.

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t was weird how it started to come down. It looked like it was a timed explosion, but I guess it was just the floors starting to pancake one on top of the other.

http://www.flcv.com/firemen.html

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Susan W. F.

"We were ushered into the Port Authority office on the 78th floor... As I turned to watch some of my fellow co-workers making phone calls, there was a second ka-boom, the building shook again and debris started hitting the windows... I thought some part of the plane or some part of the building that had been hit by the plane had exploded and debris was sliding down from the floors above us. I would later learn it was a second airplane diving into the other tower and it was debris from that explosion hitting the windows."

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And as my eyes traveled up the building, and I was looking at the south tower,somewhere about halfway up, my initial reaction was there was a secondary explosion, and the entire floor area, a ring right around the building blew out. I later realized that the building had started to collapse already and this was the ai:r being compressed and that is the floor that let go.

http://www.nytimes.c...Turi_Albert.txt

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I looked up and you could actually see everything blew out on the one floor. I thought, geez, this looks like an explosion up there, it blew out. Then I guess in some sense of time we looked at it and realized, no, actually it just collapsed. That ís what blew out the windows, not that there was an explosion there but that windows blew out.

http://www.nytimes.c...Dixon_Brian.txt

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I don't know if that means anything. I mean, I equate it to the building cowing down and pushing things down, it could have been electrical explosions, it could have been whatever.

http://www.nytimes.c...ory_Stephen.txt

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Craig Carlsen said that he and other firefighters “heard explosions coming from . . . the south tower. . . . There were about ten explosions. . . . We then realized the building started to come down” (NYT, Carlsen, pp. 5-6).

http://911review.com...iffin/nyc1.html

Now, the rest of Mr. Carlen's story.

...there were about ten explosions...At the time I didn't realize what it was. We realized later after talking and finding out that it was the floors collapsing to where the plane had hit.

http://graphics8.nyt...HIC/9110505.PDF

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As we are looking up at the building, what I saw was, it looked like the building was blowing out on all four sides. We actually heard the pops. Didn't realize it was the falling -- you know, you heard the pops of the building. You thought it was just blowing out.

http://a1022.g.akama...pdf/9110287.pdf

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an ambulance pulled up which was very clean, S0 I assumed that the vehicle had not been in the - what I thought was an explosion at the time, but was the first collapse.

http://www.nytimes.c...withers_Jay.txt

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I have correctly asserted, no one saw nor heard bomb explosions.


Edited by skyeagle409, 23 May 2013 - 05:46 AM.

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#1717    skyeagle409

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 05:24 AM

View PostQ24, on 23 May 2013 - 05:17 AM, said:

False!!



Those are compressed floors, not concrete. In some photos, you will find paper within the mix. Nothing in that mix that indicated that temperatures were high enough to melt steel. Since you didn't know, that video you posted has already been debunked.

What are the prime indicators in these photos that the materials never reached the melting point of steel?


Posted Image



Posted Image


Posted Image


Posted Image


Posted Image

Edited by skyeagle409, 23 May 2013 - 05:42 AM.

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#1718    skyeagle409

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 05:26 AM

View PostQ24, on 23 May 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

False!!  You forgot the other evidence.  And another clue that you missed is here: -

Posted Image

In the lower right portion is molten aluminum and it is flowing from the corner of WTC2, which just happens to be the exact location where the aluminum airframe of United 175 came to rest.

Posted ImagePosted Image


And, the silvery aluminum droplets can be seen falling at the lower portion of this photo and remember, the molten aluminum would have been mixed with fiberglass, plastics, seat cushions and everything else within the cabin of the airliner and inside WTC2. Any explosives in that corner of WTC2 would have detonated by the impact when the airframe entered that corner of WTC2 and any thermite attached to any steel column within that general location would have been history as well as the B-767 slammed into that corner of the building, which is the exact location where that molten aluminum is flowing from and we know the temperature in that corner of WTC2 was high enough to melt aluminum, but far too low to melt steel, so the verdict is: the molten metal is not steel.


is flowing from.Posted Image

Edited by skyeagle409, 23 May 2013 - 06:19 AM.

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#1719    skyeagle409

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 06:06 AM

View PostQ24, on 23 May 2013 - 04:51 AM, said:

It appears that you have not done your homework because the WTC collapses were due to thermite.

Let's check it out because the very design of the WTC buildings made it unlikely that thermite was responsible.

Quote

Molten Metal

We know that the World Trade Center had thousands of aluminum facades placed on the perimeter columns of WTC1, WTC2 and WTC7. Aluminum was also high in quantity on both 767s that hit the buildings. Aluminum melts at 1220°F. Now, if the top of the rubble pile was 1100°F, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that the deeper sections of the rubble, closer to the fires, would have been burning far higher than 1220°F.

Steven Jones was a professor at Brigham Young University who has no experience in building forensics, structural engineering or controlled demolitions. His lack of understanding of demolitions might explain his utterly absurd fantasy that thermite would ever be used in a controlled demolition. We will expand more on thermite later.

Steven Jones was put on paid leave from BYU for his absurd suggestions and ended up standing down from his position. He was also removed from “Scholars for 9/11 Truth”.

http://www.911myster...uide.com/14.php

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Where's the Barium?

So our question remains: where’s the barium, or barium nitrate byproducts, in Professor Jones metal sample? And if he’s found sulfur, but not barium in significantly larger quantities, then how can this be a signature of thermate as Professor Jones describes it?

http://www.911myths....he_barium_.html

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Buckling Steel

Dr. Shyam Sunder, lead investigator for NIST's building and fire safety investigation into the WTC disaster, said, "While the buildings were able to withstand the initial impact of the aircraft, the resulting fires that spread through the towers weakened support columns and floors that had fireproofing dislodged by the impacts. This eventually led to collapse as the perimeter columns were pulled inward by the sagging floors and buckled." "The reason the towers collapsed is because the fireproofing was dislodged," according to Sunder. If the fireproofing had remained in place, Sunder said, the fires would have burned out and moved on without weakening key elements to the point of structural collapse."

"According to Shyam Sunder, the concave bowing of the steel was seen on the sides of the towers opposite where the planes hit them. At 10:06 a.m. that morning, an officer in a police helicopter reported that ``it's not going to take long before the north tower comes down.'' This was 20 minutes before it collapsed. In another radio transmission at 10:21 a.m., the officer said he saw buckling in the north tower's southern face, Shyam Sunder  said."

"Engineers believe the bowing of the exterior steel beams near the flame-engulfed floors was the critical "triggering point" because that's the direction each tower tilted as it came crashing down."
"The report includes photographs taken from police helicopters showing the bending columns." Key findings include:

Floor sagging and exposure to high temperatures caused the perimeter columns to bow inward and buckle—a process that spread across the faces of the buildings. Even though the jet fuel on the planes burned off in the first few minutes after impact, there was enough office furniture to sustain intense fires for at least an hour.

The original builders of the twin towers and those who later renovated the structures did not have a clear technical standard for deciding on how much insulation to use around the structural beams, many of which gave way in the intense heat.

http://www.represent...Explosives.html

It is as I have said; fire, not explosives nor even thermite, was responsible for the collapse of the WTC buildings.

Edited by skyeagle409, 23 May 2013 - 06:19 AM.

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#1720    skyeagle409

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 06:29 AM

View PostQ24, on 23 May 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

The reason is because the collapses were due to thermite which you can see in my previous posts.

The bowing of the WTC buildings was indicative of fire, not thermite, and here is an example of what heat can do to steel.

Quote

Buckling Steel

Dr. Shyam Sunder, lead investigator for NIST's building and fire safety investigation into the WTC disaster, said, "While the buildings were able to withstand the initial impact of the aircraft, the resulting fires that spread through the towers weakened support columns and floors that had fireproofing dislodged by the impacts. This eventually led to collapse as the perimeter columns were pulled inward by the sagging floors and buckled."

"The reason the towers collapsed is because the fireproofing was dislodged," according to Sunder. If the fireproofing had remained in place, Sunder said, the fires would have burned out and moved on without weakening key elements to the point of structural collapse."

Posted Image

What heat can do to railroad tracks.

Posted Image

Here is how demolitions are done in the real world.

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How Building Implosions Work

Demolishing steel columns is a bit more difficult, as the dense material is much stronger. For buildings with a steel support structure, blasters typically use the specialized explosive material cyclotrimethylenetrinitramine, called RDX for short. RDX-based explosive compounds expand at a very high rate of speed, up to 27,000 feet per second (8,230 meters per second). Instead of disintegrating the entire column, the concentrated, high-velocity pressure slices right through the steel, splitting it in half. Additionally, blasters may ignite dynamite on one side of the column to push it over in a particular direction.

o ignite both RDX and dynamite, you must apply a severe shock. In building demolition, blasters accomplish this with a blasting cap, a small amount of explosive material (called the primer charge) connected to some sort of fuse. The traditional fuse design is a long cord with explosive material inside. When you ignite one end of the cord, the explosive material inside it burns at a steady pace, and the flame travels down the cord to the detonator on the other end. When it reaches this point, it sets off the primary charge.


Posted Image

Blasting caps are used as a catalyst to set off the explosives loaded in support columns.

Photo courtesy ImplosionWorld.com


Posted Image

Columns are fully loaded with explosives and hooked up to blasting caps and fuses.


Edited by skyeagle409, 23 May 2013 - 06:39 AM.

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#1721    Q24

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:59 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 23 May 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

Let's take another look.

False!!



Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#1722    Q24

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:00 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 23 May 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

Those are compressed floors, not concrete. In some photos, you will find paper within the mix. Nothing in that mix that indicated that temperatures were high enough to melt steel. Since you didn't know, that video you posted has already been debunked.

What are the prime indicators in these photos that the materials never reached the melting point of steel?

Let’s take another look.

It is apparent that you haven’t done your homework and have been misled by misinformation and disinformation because it already said in the video that the WTC ‘meteorite’ was a fused element of molten steel but as usual you are looking at the wrong area.

Also you have allowed misinformation and disinformation to turn you away from the rest of the evidence in the video that was actually relevant to the bent columns in your previous post.

Now what have I been saying about thermite?

Posted Image

Posted Image

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#1723    Q24

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:02 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 23 May 2013 - 05:26 AM, said:

In the lower right portion is molten aluminum and it is flowing from the corner of WTC2, which just happens to be the exact location where the aluminum airframe of United 175 came to rest.



And, the silvery aluminum droplets can be seen falling at the lower portion of this photo and remember, the molten aluminum would have been mixed with fiberglass, plastics, seat cushions and everything else within the cabin of the airliner and inside WTC2. Any explosives in that corner of WTC2 would have detonated by the impact when the airframe entered that corner of WTC2 and any thermite attached to any steel column within that general location would have been history as well as the B-767 slammed into that corner of the building, which is the exact location where that molten aluminum is flowing from and we know the temperature in that corner of WTC2 was high enough to melt aluminum, but far too low to melt steel, so the verdict is: the molten metal is not steel.

It is not aluminium flowing from WTC2 because it is thermite.  We know this because the thermite charge was displaced from the core by the direct aircraft impact and moved to the corner of the building.

Another hint you should have got is that the WTC2 flow begins 7 minutes prior to the collapse and there is no reason the aluminium airframe of United 175 should all of a sudden witness a 1,000oC temperature increase after sitting there for 49 minutes.  The timing of the flow shortly before collapse and increased bowing at that time is another clue you missed that it is thermite.



Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#1724    Q24

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:04 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 23 May 2013 - 05:26 AM, said:

In the lower right portion is molten aluminum and it is flowing from the corner of WTC2, which just happens to be the exact location where the aluminum airframe of United 175 came to rest.



And, the silvery aluminum droplets can be seen falling at the lower portion of this photo and remember, the molten aluminum would have been mixed with fiberglass, plastics, seat cushions and everything else within the cabin of the airliner and inside WTC2. Any explosives in that corner of WTC2 would have detonated by the impact when the airframe entered that corner of WTC2 and any thermite attached to any steel column within that general location would have been history as well as the B-767 slammed into that corner of the building, which is the exact location where that molten aluminum is flowing from and we know the temperature in that corner of WTC2 was high enough to melt aluminum, but far too low to melt steel, so the verdict is: the molten metal is not steel.

False!!  Experiments to replicate a molten aluminium and debris mix have been unsuccessful so NIST were spreading misinformation and disinformation which fooled you.  Furthermore thermite charges could survive and your error depicts your lack of knowledge on thermite, potential ignition methods and setups.  Your molten aluminium is history and you can see that in this post and others.

Quote

Posted Image

So as can be seen, NIST (in an apparent effort to “debunk” some sound questions surrounding the WTC disaster) has created an unnecessary mystique around data and technology--much of which has been available for over half a decade. Rather than dismiss such data, NIST should test available steel samples for residues of thermite and other anomalous substances.

http://www.journalof...obert-Moore.pdf


Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#1725    Q24

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:07 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 23 May 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

Let's check it out because the very design of the WTC buildings made it unlikely that thermite was responsible.


It is as I have said; fire, not explosives nor even thermite, was responsible for the collapse of the WTC buildings.

Apparently you missed the evidence for thermite and failed to realise there is no evidence of fire weakening.

Posted Image

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.