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WTC 911 EyeWitness~Hoboken


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#2146    skyeagle409

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:23 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 05 November 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

Actually, some people DID see the first airplane strike the tower, and many if not all of them called the police to report it.  The interesting detail is that many of those reporting the incident described the airplane as being smaller, NOT an airliner.

Let's take a look.




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#2147    DONTEATUS

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:22 AM

Time to turn out the Lights Skyeagle ! Looks like all the crazy`s are now swept under the drywall ! :tu:
Have a Great thank`s Giving !

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#2148    joc

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 01:54 PM

View Postfrenat, on 05 November 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

Read it again.  Are you SURE what tense he is using when he says he "saw an airplane hit the tower"?  It could very well be past tense meaning he saw that an airplane had hit the tower just like everyone else saw on TV.  No tv in sight at the school?  Have you been in a school in the last 30 years?  There are TVs EVERYWHERE.  They are in every room.  You are assuming that he used the present tense and spoke exactly correctly when this is a president that had websites devoted to his verbal flubs.
Verbal Flubs be damned!  EVERYONE knows exactly where they were and what they were doing when they heard the first news story.  But see, he did tell the truth when he said that he said, "Must have been a horrible pilot"...that is true...but he did NOT see the plane hit the building...it wasn't shown as a video until the following day.  He was NOT watching TV outside the classroom...there wasn't one...Superintendent says there wasn't.  He didn't just give that account once...he gave it again in another interview.  
So the question is:  why didn't he just say what the truth was?  Why didn't he say:  Well Jordan, when I was first told what happened as I was leaving to come over here...I thought, What a horrible Pilot...and I felt bad for New York and told my staff to give NY whatever they needed.
When I was told of the second plane, in the classroom...I had a deep, sickening feeling...etc.
Why did he say something that was NOT the truth?  THAT is the question.

And yes SkyEagle...lots of people saw the first plane hit...but NO ONE saw it on TV until the following day.  ...and , I remember the news story I heard that morning that a 'small plane' hit a building.

Edited by joc, 07 November 2013 - 01:56 PM.

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#2149    frenat

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 02:24 PM

View Postjoc, on 07 November 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Verbal Flubs be damned!  EVERYONE knows exactly where they were and what they were doing when they heard the first news story.  But see, he did tell the truth when he said that he said, "Must have been a horrible pilot"...that is true...but he did NOT see the plane hit the building...it wasn't shown as a video until the following day.  He was NOT watching TV outside the classroom...there wasn't one...Superintendent says there wasn't.  He didn't just give that account once...he gave it again in another interview.  
So the question is:  why didn't he just say what the truth was?  Why didn't he say:  Well Jordan, when I was first told what happened as I was leaving to come over here...I thought, What a horrible Pilot...and I felt bad for New York and told my staff to give NY whatever they needed.
When I was told of the second plane, in the classroom...I had a deep, sickening feeling...etc.
Why did he say something that was NOT the truth?  THAT is the question.

And yes SkyEagle...lots of people saw the first plane hit...but NO ONE saw it on TV until the following day.  ...and , I remember the news story I heard that morning that a 'small plane' hit a building.

So you KNOW he was using present tense and not past tense even though both could be phrased the same way?  He said he "saw a plane hit the tower".  That can be either present tense or past tense (with an implied "had").  LOTS of people leave out the word "had" in similar phrases.  Or are you trying to say he had some secret TV feed so he could watch the impact live?  What, would he need to steer the plane in himself?  The implied "had" makes sense.   I highly doubt there were no TVs in the school he could have seen.  Most schools have them nearly everywhere.  What EXACTLY did the superintendent supposedly say?

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#2150    joc

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 05:58 PM

View Postfrenat, on 07 November 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

So you KNOW he was using present tense and not past tense even though both could be phrased the same way?  He said he "saw a plane hit the tower".  That can be either present tense or past tense (with an implied "had").  LOTS of people leave out the word "had" in similar phrases.  Or are you trying to say he had some secret TV feed so he could watch the impact live?  What, would he need to steer the plane in himself?  The implied "had" makes sense.   I highly doubt there were no TVs in the school he could have seen.  Most schools have them nearly everywhere.  What EXACTLY did the superintendent supposedly say?
Well, Jordan (ph), you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my chief of staff, Andy Card -- actually I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, "There's one terrible pilot." And I said, "It must have been a horrible accident."

But I was whisked off there -- I didn't have much time to think about it, and I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my chief who was sitting over here walked in and said, "A second plane has hit the tower. America's under attack."


Let's walk through this together shall we?  He starts to say that Andy Card came in the class room and told him...but then he reflects back to 'before the classroom'.  He clearly says he was sitting 'outside of the classroom waiting to go in'...so the next phrasing obviously goes with that...And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on,..He clearly indicates that he saw the first plane sitting outside the classroom...but whether he was talking about then or 'before' he even got to the classroom is irrelevant...The fact is he DID NOT see the airplane hit the tower...no one saw it on TV until the next day...further more...he was TOLD an airplane had hit the tower and he may have been watching the tower...but no one saw the plane hit the tower...it was only the second plane that we saw for the rest of the day.

The point is ...Bush never saw ANY plane hit the tower(s)...not before he left that classroom. He didn't know a second plane had hit until Andy Card told him...so he did not see any plane at all, never, anywhere, no way, no how...until he left the classroom.  So...why did he say that?  Unless...maybe...he was watching it?  Top Secret live feed?  oh never mind...we'll just sweep that one under the rug too...

I mean...SkyEagle has does an awesome job of showing how the buildings were NOT wired for demolision...but that does NOT mean that there wasn't some kind of a conspiracy to create a path to Saddam and a 'War without End...amen'.

Edited by joc, 07 November 2013 - 06:07 PM.

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#2151    skyeagle409

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 06:58 PM

View Postjoc, on 07 November 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

And yes SkyEagle...lots of people saw the first plane hit...but NO ONE saw it on TV until the following day.  ...and , I remember the news story I heard that morning that a 'small plane' hit a building.

A small airplane could not have created that kind of damage on WTC1.




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#2152    frenat

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 03:27 AM

View Postjoc, on 07 November 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

Well, Jordan (ph), you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my chief of staff, Andy Card -- actually I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, "There's one terrible pilot." And I said, "It must have been a horrible accident."

But I was whisked off there -- I didn't have much time to think about it, and I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my chief who was sitting over here walked in and said, "A second plane has hit the tower. America's under attack."


Let's walk through this together shall we?  He starts to say that Andy Card came in the class room and told him...but then he reflects back to 'before the classroom'.  He clearly says he was sitting 'outside of the classroom waiting to go in'...so the next phrasing obviously goes with that...And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on,..He clearly indicates that he saw the first plane sitting outside the classroom...but whether he was talking about then or 'before' he even got to the classroom is irrelevant...The fact is he DID NOT see the airplane hit the tower...no one saw it on TV until the next day...further more...he was TOLD an airplane had hit the tower and he may have been watching the tower...but no one saw the plane hit the tower...it was only the second plane that we saw for the rest of the day.

The point is ...Bush never saw ANY plane hit the tower(s)...not before he left that classroom. He didn't know a second plane had hit until Andy Card told him...so he did not see any plane at all, never, anywhere, no way, no how...until he left the classroom.  So...why did he say that?  Unless...maybe...he was watching it?  Top Secret live feed?  oh never mind...we'll just sweep that one under the rug too...

I mean...SkyEagle has does an awesome job of showing how the buildings were NOT wired for demolision...but that does NOT mean that there wasn't some kind of a conspiracy to create a path to Saddam and a 'War without End...amen'.
AGAIN he could very well be using PAST TENSE.  As in "he saw an airplane (had) hit the tower" with the implied "had" the same as many people in the world sometimes say it.  That would fit perfectly with the news footage that WAS on showing that a plane HAD hit the first tower that he very easily could have seen in the school before he went into the classroom and also fits with his statements of "There's one terrible pilot" and "It must have been a horrible accident".  There is no reason to think he meant present tense as in "he saw the airplane actually hitting the tower".  His other statements don't make sense in that context.
But hey, since you can't seem to figure that out even after being explained multiple times, what possible reason would there even be for him to have a "Top Secret live feed"?  Even IF he was involved (and this statement of his doesn't even come close to proving that) why would he need to see it get hit?

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#2153    joc

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 04:47 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 07 November 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

A small airplane could not have created that kind of damage on WTC1.


I know that.  But when I first heard the news on the radio...they were saying that a plane had hit a building...I 'remember' it being discribed as a small plane....I could be wrong...but no one really new what had happened yet...it really wasn't until the second plane hit that we 'discovered' what was going on that morning...suddenly, missing jets all over...the Pentagon gets hit, etc.

I'm not accusing Bush of anything...I just find it very strange that he would describe a scenario that didn't happen when everyone else has zero problem knowing where they were exactly when they first heard it.  And...he was NOT watching TV when he was told...he was on his way out the door, literally to go to that school.  And...that line...the TV was obviously on...well, there wasn't a TV on..not where he was...it really sounds like he is making up a scenario that hadn't happened...that he knew hadn't happened...I just find it really strange.  Don't you?

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#2154    frenat

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 05:10 AM

View Postjoc, on 08 November 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

I'm not accusing Bush of anything...I just find it very strange that he would describe a scenario that didn't happen
Is he really?  Not if he is speaking in the past tense with "he saw a plane (had) hit the building".

View Postjoc, on 08 November 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

when everyone else has zero problem knowing where they were exactly when they first heard it.  And...he was NOT watching TV when he was told...he was on his way out the door, literally to go to that school.  And...that line...the TV was obviously on...well, there wasn't a TV on..not where he was..
Which you have yet to prove.

View Postjoc, on 08 November 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

.it really sounds like he is making up a scenario that hadn't happened...that he knew hadn't happened...I just find it really strange.  Don't you?
No. But I'm not the one reaching to make it fit a scenario in which the rest of his comments don't make sense.

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#2155    joc

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 06:03 AM

I found this to be very interesting:

https://www.youtube....h?v=ey0FWoII-iQ

In light of what Andy Card says as to the events of that morning...yeah...it seems like Bush just uttered more of his famous Bushisms...
...the TV he was referring to was AFTER he came out of the classroom...but...you know...it's Bush ...so...things don't always come out the way he might have wanted...and....after all...it WAS a very confusing and hectic morning that suddenly was sprung on him...so...in retrospect...I don't find it nearly as 'strange' as I did before...

Edited by joc, 08 November 2013 - 06:25 AM.

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#2156    skyeagle409

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 06:50 AM

View Postjoc, on 08 November 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

I know that.  But when I first heard the news on the radio...they were saying that a plane had hit a building...I 'remember' it being discribed as a small plane....I could be wrong...but no one really new what had happened yet...it really wasn't until the second plane hit that we 'discovered' what was going on that morning...suddenly, missing jets all over...the Pentagon gets hit, etc.

I'm not accusing Bush of anything...I just find it very strange that he would describe a scenario that didn't happen when everyone else has zero problem knowing where they were exactly when they first heard it.  And...he was NOT watching TV when he was told...he was on his way out the door, literally to go to that school.  And...that line...the TV was obviously on...well, there wasn't a TV on..not where he was...it really sounds like he is making up a scenario that hadn't happened...that he knew hadn't happened...I just find it really strange.  Don't you?

Your might want to review these videos, beginning at time line: 2:40. You will notice that a small prop-driven airplane was first reported but than soon changed afterward when it was confirmed that it was an airliner, not a small airplane. Mistakes in reporting are nothing new in the news business.


Part 1



Part 2



Edited by skyeagle409, 08 November 2013 - 06:51 AM.

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#2157    joc

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:23 PM

SkyEagle,
Right.   As you may or may not have noticed...that is the same video I posted previous to your post.  That's what I'm talking about.  Just before Bush walked into the classroom, Andy says that a reporter told him (Andy) something about a small plane hit a building...then...Bush goes in the classroom...then almost immediately after that, the reporter tells Andy, It wasn't a small aircraft, it was a jet airliner...Andy then reflects on his first thoughts, how the passengers must have felt...then seconds later, Andy is told..A second airliner has hit the other building.  Then Andy goes in and tells Bush We are under attack.  Bush goes deer in the headlights for a couple of seconds and then regains composure and continues on reading.   Outside however, things were NOT normal...they quickly sat up a command center and also brought in Televisions to monitor the situation.   Then Bush's press secretary holds up a sign that says..Don't say anything yet.

So, the jist of all of this is that Bush did just sort of get things mixed up.  Not all that conspiratorial really...not when put in the proper context.

Again, as in the beginning of this thread...I have sought only to expose the Truth..not to create my own version of the truth...but to get to the real truth.  This always puzzled me...but having researched it...I have found that, like the lack of evidence of bombs or wiring, the 'conspiracy' continues to unravel.

The bottom line of it all is this:  Bush is a human being.  Not the smartest, but no dummy.  In order to pull off an amazing Conspiracy such as what we have been led to believe, would require absolute flawless genius on everyone's part...especially the President..but...as smart as he is...he does lack the ability to communicate eloquently.
The saying, Bush lied, people died is wrong.  The saying should be, Bad people killed people.  This is what always happens, Bad people Kill people.  Bush isn't Bad People.  He didn't kill anyone...he didn't lie to anyone.

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#2158    skyeagle409

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 05:55 PM

View Postjoc, on 08 November 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

SkyEagle,
Right.   As you may or may not have noticed...that is the same video I posted previous to your post.  That's what I'm talking about.  Just before Bush walked into the classroom, Andy says that a reporter told him (Andy) something about a small plane hit a building...then...Bush goes in the classroom...then almost immediately after that, the reporter tells Andy, It wasn't a small aircraft, it was a jet airliner...Andy then reflects on his first thoughts, how the passengers must have felt...then seconds later, Andy is told..A second airliner has hit the other building.  Then Andy goes in and tells Bush We are under attack.  Bush goes deer in the headlights for a couple of seconds and then regains composure and continues on reading.   Outside however, things were NOT normal...they quickly sat up a command center and also brought in Televisions to monitor the situation.   Then Bush's press secretary holds up a sign that says..Don't say anything yet.

So, the jist of all of this is that Bush did just sort of get things mixed up.  Not all that conspiratorial really...not when put in the proper context.

Again, as in the beginning of this thread...I have sought only to expose the Truth..not to create my own version of the truth...but to get to the real truth.  This always puzzled me...but having researched it...I have found that, like the lack of evidence of bombs or wiring, the 'conspiracy' continues to unravel.

The bottom line of it all is this:  Bush is a human being.  Not the smartest, but no dummy.  In order to pull off an amazing Conspiracy such as what we have been led to believe, would require absolute flawless genius on everyone's part...especially the President..but...as smart as he is...he does lack the ability to communicate eloquently.
The saying, Bush lied, people died is wrong.  The saying should be, Bad people killed people.  This is what always happens, Bad people Kill people.  Bush isn't Bad People.  He didn't kill anyone...he didn't lie to anyone.

Personally, I saw Bush as a very weak speaker and also blame him, in addition to our intelligence agencies, for ignoring a number of warnings that clearly pointed toward an attack using aircraft as weapons on the United States.

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#2159    joc

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 10:47 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 08 November 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Personally, I saw Bush as a very weak speaker and also blame him, in addition to our intelligence agencies, for ignoring a number of warnings that clearly pointed toward an attack using aircraft as weapons on the United States.
Personally, I blame Bush for abandoning the Bush Doctrine...we lost the War in Iraq because he really didn't mean what he said..like father, like son I guess...I really thought we would shock and awe the Mullahs and Khomeini in Iran as well...

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#2160    skyeagle409

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 06:57 AM

View Postjoc, on 08 November 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

Personally, I blame Bush for abandoning the Bush Doctrine...we lost the War in Iraq because he really didn't mean what he said..like father, like son I guess...I really thought we would shock and awe the Mullahs and Khomeini in Iran as well...

I was just watching the Military Channel on 911, and there were reports that the structural integrity of WTC1 had weakened and in danger of collapsing, which was a clear indication that fire was slowly weakening its steel structure just prior to its collapse.

Which brings up the reports that WTC2 and WTC7 were also buckling shortly before they collapse and some reports were from firefighters, police, including those flying overhead in helicopters, as well as other witnesses in the area.

Firefighters have reported that given the level of damage, the buckling and creaking sounds from within the WTC buildings as well as eyewitness accounts the WTC buildings were leaning off-center, in one case, up to 3 degrees off-center just before they collapsed, that is was just a matter of time before they would collapse and another very good reason why firefighters were told to "pull out" of WTC7.

Real and undeniable evidence that fire was weakening the steel structures of WTC1, WTC2 and WTC7 shortly before they collapsed, which had nothing to do with explosives.

Edited by skyeagle409, 09 November 2013 - 07:48 AM.

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