66 replies to this topic

[Yamato]

Stellar, on 15 January 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

Yes, but the way a gun protects you is by being designed to kill the person it is used on. Just as the purpose of a hammer is to help you build things by nailing nails.




I have never said that. If after all these posts you think that is what I'm advocating, then please just stop commenting on what you "think" I want and leave me be.

Stellar, on 15 January 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

Yes, but the way a gun protects you is by being designed to kill the person it is used on. Just as the purpose of a hammer is to help you build things by nailing nails.




I have never said that. If after all these posts you think that is what I'm advocating, then please just stop commenting on what you "think" I want and leave me be.

So you aren't for disarming us of our handguns that are responsible for nearly all gun crime!   The gun owners will be thrilled to hear it.

I think you're advocating a lot of things for a random smattering of different reasons, clutching at straws looking for justification to make guns the problem, and here you are, after being challenged with a gun-toting scenario, denying that you've been doing it after all these posts.   You've just admitted that the gun isn't the problem, and you don't even know it.

[F3SS]

Stellar, on 15 January 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

please just stop commenting on what you "think" I want and leave me be.

For the last 3 or 4 days you've been commenting on what you want me to think. Aggrevating, huh?

[Stellar]

Yamato, on 16 January 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

So you aren't for disarming us of our handguns that are responsible for nearly all gun crime!   The gun owners will be thrilled to hear it.

I think you're advocating a lot of things for a random smattering of different reasons, clutching at straws looking for justification to make guns the problem, and here you are, after being challenged with a gun-toting scenario, denying that you've been doing it after all these posts.   You've just admitted that the gun isn't the problem, and you don't even know it.

And I think you are making up any hypothetical unlikely scenario just to try to justify your position.

[Stellar]

-Mr_Fess-, on 16 January 2013 - 04:05 AM, said:

For the last 3 or 4 days you've been commenting on what you want me to think. Aggrevating, huh?

Not quite. I don't want you to think anything. There are certain things that I believe you should think, and that is still a far cry from putting words in your mouth like Yamato is doing.

[Yamato]

Stellar, on 16 January 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

And I think you are making up any hypothetical unlikely scenario just to try to justify your position.

I provided one scenario and you agreed with me that you weren't against it.   We are successful at helping to convince you not to disarm us of our handguns that are responsible for nearly all gun crime.   This proves that the gun, even the handgun, isn't the problem.  So we look at the real problem: people.

[Stellar]

I've never advocated gun bans, I've been advocating gun control. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that you "convinced" me that handguns shouldn't be banned as I never said they should.

[Stellar]

And just as I've said in another thread when this all started, I believe the culture surrounding guns is what needs to be changed. Culture is slow and difficult to change, so proper gun control is the first logical step in my mind

[Yamato]

Stellar, on 16 January 2013 - 05:17 AM, said:

I've never advocated gun bans, I've been advocating gun control. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that you "convinced" me that handguns shouldn't be banned as I never said they should.

So the right to bear arms shall not be infringed.  You can respect the rule of law I hope if you're advocating for more of them.

Who's not for gun control?  I'm for gun control.  We have gun control (on our people) already!  We're both happy about the way things are if I take you at your (most recent) word.


And just as I've said in another thread when this all started, I believe the culture surrounding guns is what needs to be changed.

If you want to change our culture, start with the government and its hypocrisy (its utter lack of gun control) overseas, and then work your way into free Americans' houses who are the farthest thing from hypocrites.  Thank you.

[acidhead]

Stellar, on 16 January 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

And just as I've said in another thread when this all started, I believe the culture surrounding guns is what needs to be changed. Culture is slow and difficult to change, so proper gun control is the first logical step in my mind

Stellar, on 16 January 2013 - 05:17 AM, said:

I've never advocated gun bans, I've been advocating gun control. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that you "convinced" me that handguns shouldn't be banned as I never said they should.

....something tells me you watched CNN tonight.... cause that's exactly what Piers said earlier to the fake debate panel he had on Gun Control.

[Stellar]

Yamato, on 16 January 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

So the right to bear arms shall not be infringed.  You can respect the rule of law I hope if you're advocating for more of them.

Who's not for gun control?  I'm for gun control.  We have gun control (on our people) already!  We're both happy about the way things are if I take you at your (most recent) word.


And just as I've said in another thread when this all started, I believe the culture surrounding guns is what needs to be changed.

If you want to change our culture, start with the government and its hypocrisy (its utter lack of gun control) overseas, and then work your way into free Americans' houses who are the farthest thing from hypocrites.  Thank you.

The point of contention, one which I do not think can really be resolved between us, is that I
1. Don't think that gun control is an infringement
2. Do believe that the 2nd amendment can be changed if enough people want it to be

The control you have, I believe, is insufficient. As for changing the culture by starting with the government, I disagree that that's an effective starting point. The government's "culture" is not the same as its people's. Numerous times I have heard people tell me to distinguish between Americans and their government.

[Stellar]

acidhead, on 16 January 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

....something tells me you watched CNN tonight.... cause that's exactly what Piers said earlier to the fake debate panel he had on Gun Control.

I did not watch CNN. Does it matter if Piers said the same as me? I fully expect many people to share my point of view.

[ninjadude]

Stellar, on 16 January 2013 - 05:17 AM, said:

I've never advocated gun bans, I've been advocating gun control. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that you "convinced" me that handguns shouldn't be banned as I never said they should.

the gun nuts have a black and white mindset. Either it's total prohibition or guns for all. There is no in between. They just don't get it.

[F3SS]

ninjadude, on 17 January 2013 - 02:57 AM, said:

the gun nuts have a black and white mindset. Either it's total prohibition or guns for all. There is no in between. They just don't get it.

The thing is that law abiding citizens haven't done anything to deserve to have any guns taken away. Wether they need them or not is irrelevant. You guys have done a great job explaining how good people will have less guns. You guys have done a p*** poor job explaining how bad guys will have less guns. They're the problem and you guys haven't addressed that. You've only addressed how to impose your will and weaken the good guys. Besides, all guns are equally as dangerous in the wrong hands. What good is banning certain ones.

[Yamato]

Stellar, on 16 January 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

The point of contention, one which I do not think can really be resolved between us, is that I
1. Don't think that gun control is an infringement
2. Do believe that the 2nd amendment can be changed if enough people want it to be

The control you have, I believe, is insufficient. As for changing the culture by starting with the government, I disagree that that's an effective starting point. The government's "culture" is not the same as its people's. Numerous times I have heard people tell me to distinguish between Americans and their government.

Supermajority on the Hill + 3/4s of the states either by legislature or convention. What you need to do here to establish the real contention is disagree with people thumbing up your posts who are asserting that a simple majority can repeal our Bill of Rights.

A democratic government is REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PEOPLE.   And if it isn't, it should be made so.  That's the whole point of being a democracy.   Don't ignore that, and feed the blatant hypocrisy all the corn meal it wants.  People going around using giant guns to kill people do not represent me.  And they're not going to get your statist hall pass while my guns that have killed nobody, need more controlling.  Running up massive loads of debt and putting it on the people of the future to pay for plus interest doesn't represent anything I do in life.   I pay my bills.  I take responsibility for myself.  I don't hold a non-existent standard for myself and a double high standard for the small people below me.  Bugger that liberal/statist nonsense.

If the federal government wasn't running around the world looking for fights to start, if it wasn't killing hundreds of thousands and millions of innocent people around the world, it might have this legitimacy on this issue that you think it does.   If you think you need more control over other peoples' guns whatever that means, don't go to Washington DC and cry and beg there, awash in  unconstitutional hypocrisy.  Go to your state, or your local government, go to your town hall, and make your case to your own community.

And if you're not getting the representation from your own community that you deserve, you are free to go.

Edited by Yamato, 19 January 2013 - 07:27 PM.

[ninjadude]

-Mr_Fess-, on 17 January 2013 - 03:02 AM, said:

The thing is that law abiding citizens haven't done anything to deserve to have any guns taken away.

thing is, that is not being considered.