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Why do none of you want to be rich?


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#61    CRYSiiSx2

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:57 AM

Best thread ever.

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#62    Simatong

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:03 AM

View PostCakeOrDeath, on 25 January 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

Meh, there are people in every demographic that thrive on pressure and challenge and risk vs reward.   There are soooo many magically gifted people on this site and others like it, that I find it rather implausible that none of them have that "Michael jordan" out look, that not one of these gifted psionicists has decided to "Magneto" it up abit.

To me it seems like a built in crutch.  I always hear the same 2 tired arguements.  1 - we are too altruistic to want to reap any personal accolades or attention.  2 - We are afraid we will become guinea pigs.

Surely someone in the masses of you wthl these awesome abilities has to have the stones to accept the challenge, to champion that cause for your gifted brethren?
Many of those with actual psychic abilities have and do step up to the challenge, just not in front of an entire scientific community breathing down their necks! They step up to the plate when questioned by friends, family and the general detractor. In my mind, if you make a claim and have the balls to back it up to even just one person, screw what the other fockers say! As for the people on this forum, you KNOW that many of them have questionable claims, and quite frankly, it seems that in many ways and in many posts, this is just another manga/x-men fest where Jean Grey-wannabes are a dime-a-dozen, but the less-than-serious fluffs on here should not be seen as speakers for the serious believers on here, nor should they be seen as representatives of the entire parapsychological community (both the believers and "the gifted")

Edited by Simatong, 25 January 2013 - 01:06 AM.


#63    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:31 PM

ROFL you step up...to your family hehe, that is brave and epic.

What time is it? "peeas nuh burder" and Jelly time!

#64    Simatong

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:57 PM

View PostCakeOrDeath, on 25 January 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

ROFL you step up...to your family hehe, that is brave and epic.
Never said I personally did that, but yes, some people probably do. What? It means almost nothing simply because it is their family? Why does something have to be epic? Why can't it simply be enough that someone is willing to show proof to someone, regardless of whether it's a family member or a scientist?


#65    Mr Walker

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:31 PM

View Postcybills_double, on 23 January 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

Haha... I did go see someone at first, because I did think I was losing it. The psychiatrist, perfectly well-trained and with decades of experience, did NOT diagnose me with any "disorder". So no, I don't have a mental disorder that causes me to hear and see things that aren't there.

Likewise. But, of course, get anything  related to your health checked out if it is of concern. I was diagnosed as "exceptionally well grounded and highly functional" with no discernable psychological or physiological disorders or abnormalities.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#66    Mr Walker

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:44 PM

View PostChrlzs, on 24 January 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

Given that our brains are absolutely *wonderful* at massaging (and if necessary slightly altering or selectively remembering) data to fit situations, I'm afraid you have to very careful of what scientists call "Confirmation Bias".  It's rather like pareidolia - our brains are exceptionally good at finding patterns and shapes from randomness.  And there *will* be coincidences..

You simply can't do an after the event analysis and see what else you can find to match up - that's exactly what Confirmation Bias is - you are almost certain to find something, and that will just re-inforce your belief - all the misses get ignored, when in fact their existence is far more important than the odd selective hits..

The simple fact is that as soon as you use proper controls, the 'effect' vanishes or becomes statistically insignificant.

The first part of this is very  true. The second is not necessarily so.

Ive had nearly 60 years living with this, and i can guarantee that real precog events occur. I've had dvd quality dreams of an event which i later saw played out a day or a week later in real life, or on a television news programme. Accurate to the point where i can relay  verbatim the dialogue of people on the news before they say it.

I've had warning dreams of the future which unfolded exactly as I dreamed, until I chose to create a different pathway which diverged from the dream version. I've foreseen nearly every card in a pack of cards before they were turned over. I've predicted births deaths and occurences for other people. Mostly i find lost objects, but also i have many verified and verifiable OBE experiences sometimes using control measure to veryify them.

My most sustained effort was over several years at uni where i used precog to back horses Although i only kept a paper ledger rather than  use actual cash which Being a uni student i didnt have at the time I made enough to pay my whole living expenses each year on paper. ie a reasonable wage. That was done by putting the minimum bet on the horses i "saw" using precog,  but only placing  bets on the ones with higher odds.  So a fifty cent win bet might win 5 to ten dollars,

Later in life i made a nice side income  picking lottery numbers and, against the odds, made a small but consistent profit. Today I dont worry because this takes considerable time and effort.. When there is a big prize, I just buy a prepicked/computer generated, set of numbers and I steadily lose a small amount of money.

I only claim verifiable events as real where there are multiple witnesses or I can physically verify the accuracy of an event.  There are many others i know are real but dont claim, as I can't "prove" them.

No one has ever tested me independently, nor i suspect, the vast majority of human beings with similar experiencnes And there are very intriguing  controlled test results over the latter part of the 20th century ,which were written up in a number of books I have read over the years.

Edited by Mr Walker, 25 January 2013 - 11:58 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#67    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:46 PM

See it's honestly not about "proof" that's not what I want at all.  What I want if for someone of your people, to CHANGE the world by exposing the world to the fact that there is higher abilities, and we can GAIN and learn from individuals with extraordinary powers, again specifically engery powers, like the various kinesis(geese plural?) and psi balls, levitation etc etc.

I can't honestly beleive with so many people out there that not one, not one individual has felt the need to share (ya altruistic) with the world these special gifts. instead they are content, ALL of them, to lurk on various web sites discussing with their ilk, how big their psi ballz are, and how they moved a ball bearing (why is it always round?) on their kitchen table...

Edited by CakeOrDeath, 25 January 2013 - 11:47 PM.

What time is it? "peeas nuh burder" and Jelly time!

#68    Mr Walker

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:06 AM

View PostCakeOrDeath, on 25 January 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

Meh, there are people in every demographic that thrive on pressure and challenge and risk vs reward.   There are soooo many magically gifted people on this site and others like it, that I find it rather implausible that none of them have that "Michael jordan" out look, that not one of these gifted psionicists has decided to "Magneto" it up abit.

To me it seems like a built in crutch.  I always hear the same 2 tired arguements.  1 - we are too altruistic to want to reap any personal accolades or attention.  2 - We are afraid we will become guinea pigs.

Surely someone in the masses of you wthl these awesome abilities has to have the stones to accept the challenge, to champion that cause for your gifted brethren?

Those are genuine concerns First i DO benefit from my gifts quite a bit. Imagine playing the pokies when you KNOW which machine is a bout to pay out a few thousand dollars. And I DO use them to help anyone who asks, if I can.

But second i am a person to whom material things are irrelevant compared with wisdom and spiritual knowledge and the abilty to help others.

Second I learned very early in life that these abilities can, do, and will, cause real problems; both i, relationships with others and also to your credibilty and hence things like work prospects. Sometimes they can even land you in trouble with the law. Imagine trying to explain how you "knew" where the proceeds from a robbery were, because you were psychic. I was banned from local lotteries, and i had to stop  (voluntarily) using the pokies in my town  as extra income, because people were complaining how i always won.

Edited by Mr Walker, 26 January 2013 - 12:09 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#69    Simatong

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:13 AM

CakeorDeath, I can understand your sentiment and it sounds reasonable and logical. I personally know of someone who has used their gifts to try and help others. From giving psychic readings to trying to give advice to close friends about how to handle their abilities (should they truly have them), and they have done other things with their abilities that have been done for the betterment of some people, but again, they just didn't feel like broadcasting everywhere! If it helped even one person and that person knew it, that was all it took!The people they helped were "exposed" to it, and it seemed to have given them some form of help. Believe me, there are psychics (and the rare telekinetic) who want to do something to help others on a grand scale, but with all the judgment and criticism, it's hard. Sure, it may be easy for you to imply the old "put up or shut up" adage, but when you feel you have as much to lose as you have to gain, it may put things in a different perspective.


#70    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:27 AM

Again with respect Mr. Walker and to a degree Simatong, when it comes to psychics and empaths, there are examples of them being consulted for investigations and other things.  I think down the road, with continued scientific research, we will learn that social conscious and shared conscious have some background in reality.

The focus of my thread is people who are able to REGULARLY create/manipulate the physical boundries of our world with their mind.  Light objects on fire or atleast heat them up by focusing their powers, move objects without touching them, levitate objects or as some claim, themselves.  Create, sometimes visible balls of electro static energy that can even be "hurled" in some instances.  Oh and let's not forget the psy-weaponry thread, where people with alot of psi-ball practice actually manifest their power into psionic-swords.

These things are discussed, techiniques compared and practices shared, here and on other sites, as though it's just matter-o-fact business.  Your ascertion, evidently you speak for the psionic cummunity at-large, is that ALL of these people are too afraid and brittle to come forward and suffer the slings and arrows that come with such power....

I don't buy it plain and simple.  I group that works so hard at being "mentally tough" to withstand the "searing fire that works it's way almost uncontrolably to my hands..until I reign it in through shear will.."  ya that is a near quote from a thread heh, he's afraid of Katie Couric?

Edited by CakeOrDeath, 26 January 2013 - 12:28 AM.

What time is it? "peeas nuh burder" and Jelly time!

#71    Simatong

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:09 AM

CakeorDeath, I was also referring to psychokinetic abilities in my previous posts, and again, as I stated, the people that were being helped and/or were witnessing the abilities were enough of an audience.  (However,some people who were shown just kind of shrugged it off). I am actually thinking of writing a post for those who make fantastic claims and (genuinely) possess abilities, those who want to find a way to share their gifts (it will also include ways to collect and share evidence). I honestly think that if there are those with genuine abilities who at least make an attempt to show in one form or another that they possess abilities, the conversation between skeptics and believers might be more civilized. But seriously, CakeorDeath, why on Earth would you even attempt  to listen to anything that many of these alleged psi-ball makers claim?! You should well know that many of these people do not speak for the entire parapsychological community, let alone the community here. In some ways, many of them are just attention-hungry teeny-boppers. You know that many of them are not even going to try do something, because there is nothing they can try! That's like asking a penguin to show you that birds can fly! Why ask a penguin to do something you know it can't, and then expect its lack of flying ability to be evidence of the fallacy of flight? As intelligent a person as you seem to be, that shouldn't even need to be pointed out!
I myself cannot be considered a person who speaks for the psionic community at large, rather I speak of those I know of and I speak in manner that tries to put myself in many of their shoes.

Edited by Simatong, 26 January 2013 - 01:10 AM.


#72    ChrLzs

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:49 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 25 January 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

The first part of this is very  true. The second is not necessarily so.
For amateurs and folks biased towards a result, they both are I'm afraid.  That's why science doesn't allow it (except under extremely controlled conditions).

Quote

i can guarantee that real precog events occur.
Then please do so!

Quote

I only claim verifiable events as real where there are multiple witnesses or I can physically verify the accuracy of an event.
Am I missing something?  Where is the documentation of *any* of this?  If you can't or won't provide supporting evidence, then these are simply nice stories.
- Do you accept that someone *could* simply make such stories up?
- Or, more likely, that someone could, after a couple of 'hits', convince themselves the effect is real and report that 'fact' here?

I'm not necessarily saying that you haven't had some interesting experiences, perhaps you do have genuine abilities - but what is it that makes your claims true against those who simply make stuff up and post it here for fun, or because of genuinely mistaken self-belief or even self-delusion?

What would make it true is documentation - evidence that you did precognise something beyond a simple coincidence, or that you really are 'beyond lucky' and have been banned for that reason alone, would be a start.  Given what you have outlined, it wouldn't be all that hard to do.. I'm happy to elaborate, but it seems the enthusiasm to prove these happenings seems to disappear when push comes to shove, in a strikingly similar way to what happens when people who are experiencing weird ghostly happenings are asked to carry a video camera with them...

Quote

There are many others i know are real but dont claim, as I can't "prove" them.

So which ones are you now going to prove?  I'm sorry, but proving them to yourself isn't really sufficient...
I'm happy to help show you how you could do that by designing some simple tests in line with your claimed skills.

Quote

No one has ever tested me independently, nor i suspect, the vast majority of human beings with similar experiencnes
Er, yes, that's the point I and others are trying to make..  In the cases that have been properly investigated the abilities disappeared, even when the claimant helped design the tests, as in the case of the Randi Challenges for instance.

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And there are very intriguing  controlled test results over the latter part of the 20th century ,which were written up in a number of books I have read over the years.
Please cite your favourite test and let's debate how 'controlled' it was..

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#73    Simatong

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:59 AM

I can understand Chrizs's desire to see evidence. I had spent the better part of five years testing some abilities for myself, like precognition (I think that amount of time was justified, because as I said in a previous post, the only way to rule out coincidence, or at least to make seem less likely to be coincidence, is to test yourself again and again, doing so so many times that coincidence cannot be seen as the primary cause). I am actually going to write a thread here about testing abilities, and I encourage both the skeptics and the believers to read.


#74    ozman

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:02 AM

It's because they either know that by the time they have these psychic powers that this is all an illusion and the riches and luxuries of this world are only temporary and short lived.  

or they are not psychic at all.

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#75    Mr Walker

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:21 AM

View PostChrlzs, on 26 January 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

For amateurs and folks biased towards a result, they both are I'm afraid.  That's why science doesn't allow it (except under extremely controlled conditions).


Then please do so!


Am I missing something?  Where is the documentation of *any* of this?  If you can't or won't provide supporting evidence, then these are simply nice stories.
- Do you accept that someone *could* simply make such stories up?
- Or, more likely, that someone could, after a couple of 'hits', convince themselves the effect is real and report that 'fact' here?

I'm not necessarily saying that you haven't had some interesting experiences, perhaps you do have genuine abilities - but what is it that makes your claims true against those who simply make stuff up and post it here for fun, or because of genuinely mistaken self-belief or even self-delusion?

What would make it true is documentation - evidence that you did precognise something beyond a simple coincidence, or that you really are 'beyond lucky' and have been banned for that reason alone, would be a start.  Given what you have outlined, it wouldn't be all that hard to do.. I'm happy to elaborate, but it seems the enthusiasm to prove these happenings seems to disappear when push comes to shove, in a strikingly similar way to what happens when people who are experiencing weird ghostly happenings are asked to carry a video camera with them...


So which ones are you now going to prove?  I'm sorry, but proving them to yourself isn't really sufficient...
I'm happy to help show you how you could do that by designing some simple tests in line with your claimed skills.


Er, yes, that's the point I and others are trying to make..  In the cases that have been properly investigated the abilities disappeared, even when the claimant helped design the tests, as in the case of the Randi Challenges for instance.


Please cite your favourite test and let's debate how 'controlled' it was..
You are confusing conrete evidences with transferrable evidences Everyday we satisfactorily test our reality using concrete evidences. Some of these are reproducible in a lab. but if i talk about the time a dolphin jumped right over my boat when i was out fishing, or indeed the time i almost ended up landing on top of two dophins, (long story ) you must either acecpet that my omn evidences are concrete and verifiable or not. It is impossible for me to transfer those evidences to you and they are not the sort of events which can be reproduced in a laboratory

One online test I had to do was view the contents of a room that was on the other side of the world. I had to describe it as acurately as i could,  knowing nothing about it. If i  believ the response form the test site, I was over 85% accurate in naming and accurately describing the items in a room (and i didnt  know what type of room it was)
I also did one experiment with OBEs. I asked some year 12 boys who were going out that night to a camp site, to write dowm things like; what they were wearing what they were eating drinking etc and also the tpics of their converstion That night i "flew over" to their camp  hovered above them and and observed them for neary an hpour while i was home in bed asleep. I woke up and wrote a couple of pages of notes and sealed them in an envelope The boys also did the same. When they got to school we opened the envelopes at the same time and compared them. I was, again, correct in all the details of food, drinks, and clothing BUT, because they got very drunk they couldnt remember much about their conversations. I knew what they were, and they could partially confirm them in general terms  but it got a bit embarrasing given some of their topics of conversation.

Those are two of a multitude of cases.. Ps i cant speak for others but i know my stories are true because i use the same evidence and logic in decihering them as i do for alll reality.
So for example I KNOW I am having chicken shaslicks for tea tonight. They are under the griller as I speak. I use the same evidences to confirm that i am really  eating  chicken shasliks, as i  do to confirm I am really having a precognition or an obe or a vision of a lost object

. But i couldnt satisfactoriy prove to you that, right now, I am cooking and about to eat chicken shaslicks. If you were here alongside me you could be a witness, and be as certain as i am. But your'e no,t and we dont have enough to spare for you, anyway. :innocent:


Its simply daft to suggest that things are only real or true if ,and when, they can be scientifically verifiable. None of us could accept the  validity of the majority of our own lives if we applied that test. It is only necessary if you wish to provide acceptable transferrable evidences. Even then, a true skeptic will allow their disbelief to overule even scientifically obtained evidences.

Edited by Mr Walker, 26 January 2013 - 07:26 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.




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