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Living for ever good or bad?


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#91    Frank Merton

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:09 AM

View PostOrcseeker, on 25 January 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Well we are driven by survival. We have surpassed what nature intended. Joe Rogan described us as mould on the sandwich, the big cities, a cancer. Elongating our lives and going at this rate could only mean the mould growing larger and the cancerous lumps on the world growing bigger.

We do lots of things that nature never intended.  I think describing us as a cancer is just silly. sorry 'bout that.

View PostOrcseeker, on 25 January 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Sorry, yes you are right. Healthy body means a healthy mind and vice versa. But I believe there is a time when you need to accept you've had your time and it's time up. To accept such a thing is coupled with a healthy mind.

Of course we accept it; we accept lots of things we don't like and would change if we could.

View PostOrcseeker, on 25 January 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Maybe memory might be similar to that of a computer hard drive. If there is no space or the memory is no longer in use, the memories are forgotten and replaced with the newly acquired memories.
Memory is stored in brain matter and brain matter is finite, so this has to be the way you describe it.  All I say is it is entirely possible that artificial means of expanding memory will be found.


#92    Orcseeker

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:05 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 25 January 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:



We do lots of things that nature never intended.  I think describing us as a cancer is just silly. sorry 'bout that.


Well our cities are described as cancers, as Joe Rogan put it. They keep growing, they're a brown spot on the world, hit it with a hurricane or an earthquake and they will rebuild back up. Likening the Earth to a living entity and the cities possessing similar characteristics to cancers. It isn't all too absurd to think of them as such.

Quote

Memory is stored in brain matter and brain matter is finite, so this has to be the way you describe it.  All I say is it is entirely possible that artificial means of expanding memory will be found.

The ways of storing memory artificially would be a huge step. Essentially it would mean memories would be able to be broadcasted as well and shared.


#93    Frank Merton

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:49 AM

I think of our cities as places where a sufficient mass of people can be together to make high culture and all sorts of services economical, while rural life is just plain tiresome.  Walks in the country and horseback rides take you only so far.

If you want to stop urban sprawl -- not a bad idea at all -- push for a land use tax or a land use conversion tax.  The best way to get less of something is to tax it.


#94    Orcseeker

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:12 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 27 January 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

I think of our cities as places where a sufficient mass of people can be together to make high culture and all sorts of services economical, while rural life is just plain tiresome.  Walks in the country and horseback rides take you only so far.

If you want to stop urban sprawl -- not a bad idea at all -- push for a land use tax or a land use conversion tax.  The best way to get less of something is to tax it.

Yes, they can be used for that. But there are some cities which are very detached from community and culture. They can also be hubs of high pollution. High density population is more susceptible to super virus'. You could say that is natures way of evening things out.

City population is increasing where rural populations are decreasing all over the world. Is this entirely desirable?

Well you could tax that. But due to the high density of the population, infrastructure and property costs would have increased in the city area as well. In the end that sort of thing just becomes a money making scheme.


#95    mysticwerewolf

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:40 AM

the only way your going to stop urban sprall is to... 1)  stop Breeding  or 2) push the little red button that lets fly everything we have and start over again with whatever remains after everyone else does the same.. Humanity is never going to stop breeding.

I don't know if i should be asking  "Shall we play a game?"

  Or screaming "Soilent green is people."!

and that is another reason i would not want to live forever,  who would want to live forever in a standing room only human society where our only companions are Lice, fleas, rats and cockroaches.

or in an irradiated world where whats left is mutated and not pleasent to be around.

Edited by mysticwerewolf, 28 January 2013 - 01:43 AM.


#96    glorybebe

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:47 PM

Personally, I would love to see what happens way in future.  To live to see more space exploration and to possibly go out there myself?  That would be awesome.  But looking at our psyches....I don't know if we would be able to handle it.

Save the Earth! It's the only planet with chocolate!

#97    Amalthe

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:39 AM

View Postglorybebe, on 28 January 2013 - 04:47 PM, said:

Personally, I would love to see what happens way in future.  To live to see more space exploration and to possibly go out there myself?  That would be awesome.  But looking at our psyches....I don't know if we would be able to handle it.

Sure we could handle it. Look at the hundreds of games, even MMOs that deal with exploration and conquest of universe. And looking at the progress of our tech, no sooner we will be able to experience full virtual reality entertainment, so what would be real and what will be not? Humans are quite adaptable for new experiences.

But basic question of the OP is: would eternal life be good or bad for men? And the answer is: it would be bad for humans as a whole specie, but extremely good for immortal individuals (as long as others don't know about and don't have immortality).


#98    Frank Merton

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:23 AM

The vampire myth contains the idea that even though they don't age and die they nevertheless tire of life, and yearn for the past and don't like the present culture.

I use to wonder why that idea got incorporated into the myth (we can learn from myths), and as I grew older came to realize that there is a truth there -- we do yearn for the culture of our youth -- and the world has gone and left us behind.

Of course nowadays we have all sorts of ways to keep the culture we had when we were young around us -- certainly that is why "oldies" disks and so on sell well.  I suspect that if aging ended, the rate of cultural change would slow to a crawl, since older people would more and more dominate the population, so adaptation would not be so difficult.


#99    Orcseeker

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:54 PM

View PostAmalthe, on 29 January 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:



Sure we could handle it. Look at the hundreds of games, even MMOs that deal with exploration and conquest of universe. And looking at the progress of our tech, no sooner we will be able to experience full virtual reality entertainment, so what would be real and what will be not? Humans are quite adaptable for new experiences.

But basic question of the OP is: would eternal life be good or bad for men? And the answer is: it would be bad for humans as a whole specie, but extremely good for immortal individuals (as long as others don't know about and don't have immortality).

The impression I got from glorybebe's post is that our psyches wouldn't be able to handle living for such an extended period of time.


#100    Frank Merton

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:58 PM

View PostOrcseeker, on 29 January 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

The impression I got from glorybebe's post is that our psyches wouldn't be able to handle living for such an extended period of time.
I wouldn't mind trying.


#101    Orcseeker

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:06 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 29 January 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

I wouldn't mind trying.

You find the idea of eternal life desirable?

May I ask how old you are? Of course if you don't mind just in regards to this discussion.

My grandmother would have rather died than lose her mind, to go into a home. Even as I child I thought she would live forever, I wanted her to. But she said herself she would like to go to rest one day.

She was always learning new things, kept her mind healthy. Was one of 5 women who survived removal of a lung due to tuberculosis. She has travelled around the world. She definitely lived her life and lived longer than expected. I think she was 86 when she died.

Maybe after you've lived that long your desire will change.

Edit: wait sorry, just checked your profile in regards to your age.

Edited by Orcseeker, 29 January 2013 - 01:07 PM.


#102    Frank Merton

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:17 PM

I think the answer to whether or not one wants to continue living depends on how happy you are.

As a Buddhist I am not supposed to be happy; we maintain that life is mainly about suffering and delusions and the frustration of desires that we shouldn't have anyway.  Still, and although I think that analysis is pretty good, I am happy anyway.   Most Buddhists are.


#103    AquilaChrysaetos

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:17 AM

I'd rather just live and then die. The afterlife is much more appealing to me than this place.

Jesus Christ - Matthew 28:18-20 said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

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#104    keninsc

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:02 AM

Forever? Bad, I think.

Although, I'd like to live two or three hundred years maybe, but comes a point when you'll sort of lose interest I think. People you care about pass away, family, kids, grand kid, great grand kids.........then you have to sort of fake your own death or disappear and then no contact after that.

Personally, I thought the character of Data on "Strar Trek TNG" had a huge problem ahead of him, he was designed to last some ten thousand years. Oye! Then what? He'd be able to get a new body by then. So a few hundred years I think would be cool, forever? Maybe not such a great idea.


#105    Frank Merton

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:09 AM

View Postkeninsc, on 30 January 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

Forever? Bad, I think.

Although, I'd like to live two or three hundred years maybe, but comes a point when you'll sort of lose interest I think.
Well living indefinitely doesn't sound so good if others continue to age and die.  Otherwise I don't think I would ever lose interest.





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